Nuestros Ranchos Site

Joseph,

Would you have theurl for the Archives of the Indies and know how to best utilize it?

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Joseph Puentes : --------------

>
> Who knows what parts of Spain some of you might eventually be researching.
>
> joseph
>
> ========================================
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:31:59 +0200
> From: "ALEJANDRO.DELGADO@telefonica.net"
> Subject: Municipal Archives of Cartagena launches new website
>
> ------=_Part_637_13832593.1154511119043
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> Please, excuse cross-postings
>
> Municipal Archives of Cartagena (Spain) has just launched its new website:
> http://archivo.cartagena.es
>
> Despite in Spanish, comments, critics, suggestions, thoughts, are welcomed, in
> order to improve.
>
>
> TERRA
>
> -->
>
>
> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society
> of American Archivists, www.archivists.org.
> For the terms of participation, please refer to
> http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to listserv@listserv.muohio.edu
> In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
> *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES
> To post a message, send e-mail to archives@listserv.muohio.edu
>
> Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html
>
>
>
>

Now if there only was an index available:(
I already have the one capitulo, but my family might be covered in others.

The San Antonio Library kindly photocopied capitulo 58 for me. I'm sure they would do so again.

Got my copy of Cartas de Indias on an inter library loan today.

Many thanks for bringing this interesitng book to my attention.

---- Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
>
> For those of you that don't have the book but are fortunate enough to be
> close to one of these libraries:
>
>
> Location Library Code
> IN ALLEN CNTY PUB LIBR IMF
> TX EL PASO PUB LIBR TXP
> TX LAREDO PUB LIBR DB$
> TX SAN ANTONIO PUB LIBR SAP
> TX UNIV OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN IXA
> TX UNIV OF TEXAS AT EL PASO TXU
> CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY CUY
> DC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS DLC
> TX DALLAS PUB LIBR IGA
> TX UNIV OF N TEXAS INT
>
> Title: Genealogía de Nochistlán antiguo reino de la Nueva Galicia en
> el siglo XVII según sus archivos parroquiales /
> Author(s): Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías, José Luis.
> Publication: Ciudad Juárez, Mexico : Vázquez,
> Edition: 1. ed.
> Year: 2001
> Description: xx, 475 p. : ill. ; 29 cm.
> Language: Spanish
>
> SUBJECT(S)
> Named Person: Vázquez family.
> Rodríguez family.
> Note(s): Includes index./ Ejemplar no. 171 de 300.
> Class Descriptors: LC: CS110; Dewey: 929.2
> Responsibility: José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías.
> Document Type: Book
> Entry: 20020220
> Update: 20021008
> Accession No: OCLC: 49050417
> Database: WorldCat
>
>
>
> papagaia2 wrote:
>
> >Re: Juana Delgadillo:
> >
> >I do not have the Vazquez y Frias publication, but I do have the "capitulo,"
> >listing. There's a reference to Capitulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de
> >Benavides y Juana Delgadillo. It may help to establish if this Juana
> >Delgadillo was the daughter of Diego and Petronilla. Reference to
> >individuals with the Delgadillo surname can be found in the following
> >"capitulos."
> >Capitulo: 6, 13, 16, 34, 50, 51, 54, 57, 84 and 86.
> >Pat
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Since I still cannot sort out the relationship of my husband's gg-grandfather to the widowed man his mother married long after his and his brothers' births (no father mentioned in the records), I was surprised when looking for my father's ancestors that sometimes the fathers of "hijos naturales" were mentioned (exposed?) in the records even when the father was married to someone else. I kind of suspect that in some cases a woman who had children out of wedlock had been impregnated by a married man and could not marry him until he was "free" ("viudo" after his previous wife died) to be made an honest woman of.

Here are some examples of the "exposed" fathers (from the records of the Tepetongo Church in Zacatecas, circa 1842-1850):

---"hijo natural de Viviana Soriano y por dicho de la pareda es hijo de Juan Roman, casado"---

---"hija natural de Maria Carrillo y de notoriedad publica de Leonardo Garcia"--

---"hijo natural de Maria del Refugio Carrillo y por declaracion de madre de Ramon Soriano, de estado soltero"--

---""hijo natural de Josefa de la Torre y de notoriedad publica de Luis Soriano"---

I had never seen such examples in the thousands of records I have viewed. I really don't understand the term "notoriedad publica"---public notoriety? gossip? rumor? Most records in this film simply stated the child was "hijo natural de" and made no mention of the fathers. In some other films I have seen the term "escrito en el libro secreto" when referring to the fathers' or parents' names. I am left to wonder what caused this lapse in confidentiality in the written record, this "telling it like it is".

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

I just posted a picture of a map of the district of Jerez Zacatecas which I got in 2003. Some of the old names have been changed but the information seems good. I posted it in the map section. This map was actually on the back of a T-shirt but it was clear and large enough for my old eyes to read.

Linda in B.C.

I have learned over the years doing family research is that certain words are used differently in different centuries and locales. For example, people who lived in remote areas without a resident priest didn't wait for one to show in order to "marry". The church did not see any reason to blame people for uniting and having children before seeing a priest for the church ritual. Hence the term "hijo natural" came into use. Once the locale has a resident priest the use of "hijo natural" disappears. I have seen the priests use "hijo ilegitimo" or "hijo bastardo" to identify the child whose parents failed to observe the "rules". I believe it is presumptuous to call a child a bastard if the "hijo natural" label is the result of a priest not being nearby. Some communities went longer than a year without the services of a priest.

The term "hijo legitimo" is usually reserved for those chidren whose parents were married in a church ceremony prior to the childs' birth. One of my ancestors is labeled as "hijo ilicito" and "hijo legitimo" in the same baptism record. The parents were married after the birth in an outlying area. One of my uncles was labeled illegitimate in 1912 New Mexico because his parents married civilly before marrying in a church ceremony.

As for the term "expuesto" (exposed in English), I have seen it used to cover many situations. One ancestor "found" a child "expuesto" in his home. His only daughter got married two years later and the child was raised by her parents. Another ancestor (El Passo del Norte) found a child "expuesto" alongside an irrigation canal. Priests found children on their doorsteps and window sills. In 1870's Aguas Calientes, Ags. I found a record of a priest who answered a knock on his door late one night. A woman thrust a child in his arms and ran away. When he looked at the bundle in his arms he saw the baby covered in blood. The umbilical cord had been cut too short. The child died in his arms that night.

Words are only sounds but they can hurt. It is best, I believe, to observe and record. Using judgemental language to "translate" from Spanish to English is not very helpful. I think we all have a lot to learn about the past.

My apologies if I rambled.

David in Albany, CA

David P. Delgado

David P. Delgado

I still don't see your article in the file section. Que pasa?

---- alfonsogonzalezg wrote:
>
I've just tried to upload an article about Isabel de Moctezuma's Will. I guess it's very interesting, but it doesn't appear now in the Files Section. Did I do something wrong?

In the article mentions that Juan de Altamirano took care of Leonor Cortez Moctezuma and some other interesting facts.

Alfonso González

Hola a todos, gracias por darme la bienvenida al grupo de nuevo.

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!? La mejor conexión a Internet y 2GB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx

I too have a case that has me wondering just what is Hijo Legitimo vs Hijo Natural:

My husband's great-great grandfather Ysac Cervantes gave as his father's name Encarnacion Cervantes in the baptism records of all his children and in his marriage record. This made it extremely difficult for me to find Ysac and Encarnacion. After backtracking and some help from Arturo, I discovered that the Cervantes name came from Ysac's mother Dorotea Cervantes who did not marry Encarnacion Talamantes until after Ysac's birth and that of his two brothers. Encarnacion and Dorotea were not married until July 10, 1839, three years after the birth of Ysac and six years after the birth of Ysac's brother Sotero. The Talamantes I believe were part Indian from Tlaltenango, and the Cerbantes' were espanoles from Encarnacion de Diaz.

I found Ysac's birth record for June 4, 1836 in "Hijos Legitimos" for La Encarnacion Church, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. In the margin the record reads: "h. lego.", yet in the body of the record it reads "bautise solamente---Jose Ysac de dos dias nacido en esta Villa h. n. de Dorotea Cerbantes. A. M. Anto. Cerbantes y Juliana Rovalcaba----. The record for Sotero reads the same, "h. lego." in the margin, and "h. n." in the body of the record for April 24, 1833. No father or paternal grandparents are listed in either record.

How could a child be listed as both "h. lego." and "h. n." in the same record in a book that is for "hijos legitimos"? Why would Ysac change his father's/stepfather's name from Talamantes to Cervantes for the records?

Can anyone shed light on this?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Thanks to everyone for all of the great definitions given when I asked for "Help-Ayuda"
this is what I learned.

Hijo espurio: hijo ilegítimo de padre desconocido (Bastardo) unknown father
Hijo ilegítimo: hijo de padres no casados entre sí, (i.e an affair)
Hijo natural: hijo de padres no casados que podían casarse al momento de
tenerlo.(born out of wedlock)
Hijos de la Iglesia: Fathered by Clergy
"Calzon Flojo" "loose knickers" = women who gave it up without any ties (lol)

to be continued.................Letty

This is an interesting article about the meaning and survival of some of our
Mexican wedding traditions. The only thing that I disagree with is the
"lasso" - I heard that the indigenous had used flowers to encircle the couple,
and this was substituted with the "lasso - rosario" with the Spanish influence.
Who knows - but it is interesting nevertheless!

_http://www.infobayarea.com/articles/mexicanwedding.htm_
(http://www.infobayarea.com/articles/mexicanwedding.htm)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 2006-08-11 14:30 (Mw 5.9) MICHOACAN, MEXICO 18.6 -100.9
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 07:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: ens@usgs.gov (USGS ENS)
Reply-To: ens@usgs.gov
To: makas@nc.rr.com

== PRELIMINARY EARTHQUAKE REPORT ==

Region: MICHOACAN, MEXICO
Geographic coordinates: 18.624N, 100.913W
Magnitude: 5.9 Mw
Depth: 94 km
Universal Time (UTC): 11 Aug 2006 14:30:44
Time near the Epicenter: 11 Aug 2006 09:30:44
Local time in your area: 11 Aug 2006 15:30:44

Location with respect to nearby cities:
6 km (4 miles) NW (325 degrees) of Huetamo, Michoacán, Mexico
44 km (27 miles) NW (321 degrees) of Altamirano, Guerrero, Mexico
78 km (48 miles) WNW (300 degrees) of Arcelia, Guerrero, Mexico
122 km (76 miles) S (170 degrees) of Morelia, Michoacán, Mexico
204 km (126 miles) WSW (245 degrees) of MEXICO CITY, D.F., Mexico

ADDITIONAL EARTHQUAKE PARAMETERS
________________________________
event ID : US rgaw

This event has been reviewed by a seismologist at NEIC
For subsequent updates, maps, and technical information, see:
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or
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/

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Based on my knowledge of Mexican history and family history, I can fully
understand the confusion caused by the terms ¨hijo legítimo¨ and ¨hijo
natural¨. As of 1859, it was mandated by Mexican law that all marriages,
births and deaths must be first registered with the civil authorities (Registro
Civil).

In the case of a marriage, this meant the civil registration ad to take place
prior to the religous ceremony, commonly referred to as ¨las dos leyes¨.
For various reasons, the religous ceremony was/may be postponed by
days, weeks, monhs or years.

Eventhough the civil ceremony had taken place, any children born prior
to the religous ceremony were idntified as ¨hijos naturales¨ in church
records. At such time as the religous ceremony took place, the
margin of the baptismal entry was annoted ¨hijo legítimo¨.

George
.
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:48:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Leticia
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Can someone help me out with the following.
> I am having a hard time reading a birth certificatea from mid 1800's, I
> was under the assumption "hijo Natural" is a child born to a single mom!
>
> what is the difference between:
>
> Hijo Legitimo de - to - Hijo natural de
> on both terms parents are listed as a couple.
> In other cases the name of the baptised is listed followed by the term
> "Natural"
> and then the name of the parents.
>
> Help, Letty

Does anyone use this Family History Center?

http://www.larfhc.org/Mexico.htm

You are right Joseph. I sincerely apologize. I was having a
frustrating day and my mind took off in the wrong direction. This is
one of the best groups on the web and doesn't deserve the pettiness
in my previous email. I thank you for your patient response. I hope
the rest of the group will forgive me, too.

Linda Romero

On Aug 11, 2006, at 3:12 AM, general-
request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:

> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:43:25 -0500
> From: Joseph Puentes
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Login once a year/Creating More Discussion
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <44DB460D.2080807@nc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I think you are totally misunderstanding what I was suggesting.
> There is
> a difference between "Login In" and the discussion that takes place on
> the email distribution lists. I am in no means proposing that if you
> don't say something "ONCE A YEAR" on the email discussion list you
> will
> be eliminated from the group. No not the point. I am trying to find an
> easy way for me to remove members from the group that are not truely
> members. The Log In means you take your "USER NAME" and "PASSWORD" and
> use them (log in) on the http://nuestrosranchos.org site.
>
> When you do that it leaves a "signature" of sorts in that I can easily
> see that you or anyone has logged into the site. So if a person hasn't
> logged in after a year then I'll send them an email asking if they
> want
> to remain members. If they say yes then fine they can remain
> members as
> long as they have met the initial requirements: 1) do your own
> research
> and 2) send in a representative tree showing their connection to our
> area of research. BUT if the person never replies or replies with a
> "Not
> Interested" then I'll go ahead and delete their membership.
>
> So unless you want to get a message from me on 01 May 2007 just log in
> once. . .you don't have to spend hours researching or anything
> just log
> in. logging in takes about 1 minute and you are finished. In fact
> If you
> log in immediately you will not have to worry about this until 01 May
> 2008 when the next time after this first time that I will be
> sending out
> emails to people who haven't logged in for over a year.
>
> What do you think is what I said still unclear?
>
> joseph
>
> ps: if you want more discussion about your particular area of research
> why not do like I did when I originally started the Yahoo Ranchos. I
> knew When I first started I didn't know anything so I decided to
> surround myself with other researchers that were researching my
> area of
> research thus originally the yahoo group was for Jalisco and Zacatecas
> and then the members decided to add Aguascalientes. So if you go to
> Ancestry or Roots web and do a message search for your particular
> areas
> in Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes then find those that are
> "Serious" Inquiries. Email those individuals and ask them to consider
> membership in the http://nuestrosranchos.org group, But give them a
> warning that it is only for those that are serious about their
> research
> and tell them about the requirements of the group. Linda, get
> active in
> finding others you can network with. . .believe me it has been a
> blessing for me and my research and I just know that it will be for
> yours.
>

was reading a brief that said the UC System was joining the Google book
project.

I hope this is true and that they start with the books

on Mexico

let's hope.

joseph

ps: if anyone has more info please pass it on to the "general" list.

Can someone help me out with the following.
I am having a hard time reading a birth certificatea from mid 1800's, I was under the assumption "hijo Natural" is a child born to a single mom!

what is the difference between:

Hijo Legitimo de - to - Hijo natural de
on both terms parents are listed as a couple.
In other cases the name of the baptised is listed followed by the term "Natural"
and then the name of the parents.

Help, Letty

What would eliminating everyone who doesn't log in once a year
accomplish? Instead of a group researching and sharing information
about ancestors in the Jalisco area of Mexico, would this then morph
into a small group whose members live in California and can meet at
restaurants for a monthly luncheon and exchange of information on
their relationship to Moctezuma? Some of us lurkers keep tabs on the
information online until something that pertains to our research
comes up and we can participate.

By all means continue your luncheon meetings. They sound like fun.
But don't kick the rest of us off because our line of research hasn't
come up for a while. We keep reading, enjoying others information
and breakthroughs, and hoping a little smidgeon of information on our
lines will come across to allow us to participate in the
discussions. When they do, you'll hear from us.

Until then, I'll monitor the discussions unless I'm kicked off for
not belonging to the current line being researched and discussed.

Linda

Babelfish:

¿Qué eliminando a cada uno que no lo hace conexión una vez al año
lograría? ¿En vez de un grupo que investigaba y que compartía la
información sobre antepasados en el área de Jalisco de México, este
entonces morph en un grupo pequeño que miembros viven en California y
puede satisfacer en los restaurantes para un alumerzo y un
intercambio de la información mensuales sobre su relación a
Moctezuma? Algunos de nosotros los lurker mantienen lengüetas en la
información en línea hasta algo que pertenece a nuestra investigación
viene para arriba y podemos participar. Sin falta continúe sus
reuniones del alumerzo. Suenan como la diversión. Pero no golpee el
resto con el pie de nosotros apagado porque nuestra línea de la
investigación no ha venido para arriba por un rato. Guardamos el
leer, gozando de otros información y las brechas, y esperar un poco
smidgeon de la información sobre nuestras líneas vendrá a través
permitir que participemos en las discusiones. Cuando lo hacen, usted
oirá de nosotros. Hasta entonces, supervisaré las discusiones a menos
que apagado me golpeen con el pie para no pertenecer a la línea
actual que es investigada y discutida. Linda

I'm thinking of something and would like some feed back on it.

I'm thinking of making it mandatory to login to the actual website once
a year or your membership will expire.

I would think that visiting the website once a year would be something
that we could all do without a problem. It would also help me to weed
out members that truly are not active on the group. I'm not wanting to
hold the membership up to some artificial number.

what do you all think? Would it be to much to ask all members to log
into the group once a year?

thanks for your feed back.

joseph

=======================

Estoy pensando en algo y quisiera sus piensamentos de él. Estoy pensando
hacerlo obligatario que todos visiten la pagina:
http://nuestrosranchos.org una vez al ano (login). Pensaría que eso
visitar el Web site una vez al año sería algo que podríamos todos hacer
sin un problema. También me ayudaría cortar los miembros que no son
verdad activos en el grupo. No estoy deseando llevar a cabo la calidad
de miembro hasta un cierto número artificial. ¿qué usted todo piensa?
¿Estaría a mucho para pedir que todos los miembros visiten el grupo una
vez al año? las gracias por su retroactúan.

José

I believe this is more than reasonable.
Thanks
Gilbert

> [Original Message]
> From:
> To:
> Date: 8/10/2006 2:57:28 AM
> Subject: General Digest, Vol 7, Issue 8
>
> Send General mailing list submissions to
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
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>
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> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Open For Discussion (Joseph Puentes)
> 2. Re: Open For Discussion (Damasco, Raul)
> 3. Re: Open For Discussion (Jose Aguayo)
> 4. Re: Open For Discussion (Alicia Carrillo)
> 5. Re: Open For Discussion (M. Vallazza)
> 6. Re: Open For Discussion (Akj187499030@cs.com)
> 7. Re: Open For Discussion (Akj187499030@cs.com)
> 8. Re: Open For Discussion (Akj187499030@cs.com)
> 9. Re: Open For Discussion (Olivia Jaurequi-Reyes)
> 10. Re: Open For Discussion (Mike Bernard Lopez)
> 11. Sign-in (ylricro)
> 12. Open for discussion (longsjourney)
> 13. Re: Open For Discussion (papagaia2)
> 14. Re: Open For Discussion (David P. Delgado)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:16:16 -0500
> From: Joseph Puentes
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Open For Discussion
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <44DA5EB0.3020806@nc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> I'm thinking of something and would like some feed back on it.
>
> I'm thinking of making it mandatory to login to the actual website once
> a year or your membership will expire.
>
> I would think that visiting the website once a year would be something
> that we could all do without a problem. It would also help me to weed
> out members that truly are not active on the group. I'm not wanting to
> hold the membership up to some artificial number.
>
> what do you all think? Would it be to much to ask all members to log
> into the group once a year?
>
> thanks for your feed back.
>
> joseph
>
> =======================
>
> Estoy pensando en algo y quisiera sus piensamentos de ?l. Estoy pensando
> hacerlo obligatario que todos visiten la pagina:
> http://nuestrosranchos.org una vez al ano (login). Pensar?a que eso
> visitar el Web site una vez al a?o ser?a algo que podr?amos todos hacer
> sin un problema. Tambi?n me ayudar?a cortar los miembros que no son
> verdad activos en el grupo. No estoy deseando llevar a cabo la calidad
> de miembro hasta un cierto n?mero artificial. ?qu? usted todo piensa?
> ?Estar?a a mucho para pedir que todos los miembros visiten el grupo una
> vez al a?o? las gracias por su retroact?an.
>
> Jos?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:19:03 -0600
> From: "Damasco, Raul"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Open For Discussion
> To:
> Message-ID:
>
<013A1DC192D176478AA1878ABA0129C3F0AB1E@MXCHIHJRZ-EX01.NorthAmerica.Delp…
uto.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Me parece perfecto.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of Joseph
> Puentes
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 4:16 PM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Open For Discussion
>
>
>
> I'm thinking of something and would like some feed back on it.
>
> I'm thinking of making it mandatory to login to the actual website once
> a year or your membership will expire.
>
> I would think that visiting the website once a year would be something
> that we could all do without a problem. It would also help me to weed
> out members that truly are not active on the group. I'm not wanting to
> hold the membership up to some artificial number.
>
> what do you all think? Would it be to much to ask all members to log
> into the group once a year?
>
> thanks for your feed back.
>
> joseph
>
> =======================
>
> Estoy pensando en algo y quisiera sus piensamentos de ?l. Estoy pensando
> hacerlo obligatario que todos visiten la pagina:
> http://nuestrosranchos.org una vez al ano (login). Pensar?a que eso
> visitar el Web site una vez al a?o ser?a algo que podr?amos todos hacer
> sin un problema. Tambi?n me ayudar?a cortar los miembros que no son
> verdad activos en el grupo. No estoy deseando llevar a cabo la calidad
> de miembro hasta un cierto n?mero artificial. ?qu? usted todo piensa?
> ?Estar?a a mucho para pedir que todos los miembros visiten el grupo una
> vez al a?o? las gracias por su retroact?an.
>
> Jos?
>
>

Joseph,
My vote for "Open for discussion" is that once a year seems fair to me.

Thank you so very much for opening up this wonderful website! I have learned so much about my ancestor's and am constantly learning new things. We have a wonderful group of very informed and helpful members.

I don't agree with the last email about this only being a California group. Since I have joined I have noticed people from a variety of states. This is just as the forum say's just a topic that is open for discussion. I don't like when people get nasty or negative. Let's work together to make it work for all of us! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK JOSEPH AND STAFF!!

MUCHAS GRACIAS,
Maria Elena Gutierrez

I just went through the films for Zacatecas and wondered if there is a way to put the film numbers in order by catagory and sequence? It would help to keep us from entering duplicate film or batch numbers.
Just a suggestion.
Linda in B.C.

Joseph, when I get into the Nuestros Ranchos site it acknowledges me by name unless I'm on a different computer then it asks me to sign in.. Does this site record or show how often we are actually into the Nuestros site? If it does then those who use the site would not have to do anything special and you would have a record of who has not used the site for the last year... or am I over simplifying it?
Linda in B.C.

es buen idea. . .hagalo. . .si algunos quieren entra en discusion de
cualquiera tema relacionado a nuestra genealogica aganlo. De un libro
específicamente??? Si buen idea.

joseph

great idea. . .do it. . .if some want to enter into a discussion on
whatever topic related to our genealogy do it. About a specific book???
Great Idea.

joseph

francisco sevilla wrote:

> Me parece perfecto.
> Ademas me gustaria establecer una "tertulia" sobre algun libro o tema
> de nuestras tierras o de nuestros ancestros, para luego dar nuestras
> opiniones en la red..que les parece buena idea o no?
>
> Once a year is reasonable.
> I would also like to establish a "literay circle" regarding a topic or
> a specific book that deals with our birthplace or the birthplace of
> our ancestors, and late discuss it on tis web page. What do you think,
> good idea or a bad one? Francisco, from CATARINA Jalisco.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls
>
> to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Esther and Humberto:

This is what I have been able to find regarding
Arreola/Villarreal/Bermea/Trevino Except where otherwise indicated, all were born in
Gigedo/Rosales/Villa Union (same town) Coahuila.

Gaspar Bermeo married abt 1742 MaCandalaria de los Rios in Nadadores,
Coahuila (Indios Tlaxcaltecos) (ggggg grandparents)
+Lucas Bermeo Rios married Feb 15, 1768 Andrea Flores
+Tomas Bermea Rios married Jan 27, 1762 Juana Flores (Gigedo)
+Joaguin Bermea Flores married abt 1795 Brigida Hernandez (Gigedo) (gggg
grandparents)
+Mathia Bermea Hernandez
+Mateo Bermea Hernandez
+Diego Bermea Hernandez married April 28, 1819 Timotea Gomez (ggg
grandparents)
+Santos Bermea Gomez b: 1854 married 1870 Ramon Cardenas
+Norberto Bermea Gomez
+Margarita Bermea Gomez
+Ricardo Bermea Gomez
+Anastasia Bermea Gomez
+Francisco Bermea Gomez (married 1819) Timotea Trevino
+Julian Bermea Gomez and Romana Arreola (gg grandparents)
+Maria de los Santos Bermea Arreola b: 6/3 (bapt) June 14, 1867 – Rosales
(IGI #C601581) (g grandmother)
+ Victoriana Bermea Villarreal married Arnulfo Villarreal Trevino
(grandparents)
+ Eleazar Villarreal Villarreal
+ Elida Villarreal Villarreal
+ Eloida Villarreal Villarreal
+ Expectacion Villarreal Villarreal
+ Elva Villarreal Villarreal
+ Efrain Villarreal Villarreal (father)
+ Maria de Jesus Villarreal Bermea Villarreal
+Jose Donato Bermea Arreola (baptized) May 31, 1863 – Rosales (IGI Batch #
C601581)
+Federico Bermea Arreola (baptized) March 26, 1866 – Rosales (IGI Batch#
C601581)
+Jose Fernando Arreola (baptized) Jun 9, 1861 (father not listed)
Laurencio Villarreal Trevino may have come from Hidalgo, Nuevo Leon
(formerly known as Nuestra Senora del Pueblito)
Laurencio Villarreal Trevino married Expectacion Elizondo Elizondo
(ggrandparents)
+Laurencio Villarreal Elizondo
+Francisca Villarreal Elizondo married Benjamin Lira
++ Humberto Lira Villarreal
++Homero Lira Villareal
++Ernesto Lira Villarreal
++Francisco Lira Villarreal
++Policarpo Lira Villarreal
++Minerva Lira Villarreal
++Enriqueta Lira Villarreal
++Rebecca Lira Villarreal
++Yolanda Lira Villarreal
+Arnulfo Villarreal Elizondo b: Jun 14, 1894 d: Jan 15, 1969 married
Victoriana Villarreal Bermea b: Sept 22, 1894 d: May, 1969 (grandparents)
Some of the information was obtained through a 2nd cousin/aunts/uncles and
has yet to be substantiated with primary documents by myself.
Esperanza

Hola Eddy:

Saludos desde GUadalajara:

Si tengo a los padres de esa persona hermosillo, y lo de tu genealogia
no lo habia
visto apenas acabo de verlo, luego te doy mis comentarios.

Oye tengo una sobrina que en Enero Pasado acabo de terminar tambien la
carrera
de Mercadotecnia en la U de G, se llama Julissa Joey Guzmán Velazquez y su
hermano Jose Brian tambien esta estudiando lo mismo, creo que el apenas va
en 2do,
o 3er. Semestre, los conoces?.

Atentamente:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

oyes tomas te mande mi genealogia de gutirrez no se si te llego.

y viendo tu genealogia de alba en la 9º generacion aparece una persona con
apellido hermosillo tienes los padre de esta persona

2006/8/6, eddy gutierrez hermosillo :
>
>
>
> Hola tomas:
>
> Mi nombre es Eddy Gutiérrez Hermosillo, tengo 24 años de edad y soy de
> Lagos de Moreno jalisco. Soy recien egresado de la carrera de mercadotecnia,
> actualmente estoy estudiando mi diplomado de titulación que lo termino en
> noviembre de este año.
>
> Tengo poco tiempo investigando sobre mis apellidos a si que no tengo gran
> información; los datos que actualmente tengo los he logrado gracias a
> familiares a que de uno a uno les he preguntado.
>
>
>
> Bueno te paso los datos de mi genealogía Gutiérrez:
>
> y adjunto Mi Ascendencia (PAF)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NOMBRE : Eddy Gutiérrez Hermosillo
>
>
>
>
>
> PAPA: José Gutiérrez Gutiérrez
>
> NACIMIENTO: 7 Mar 1936 (Estancia Vieja) San Juan de
> los Lagos Jalisco
>
> FALLECIMIENTO: 2 Feb 1986 Lagos de Moreno Jalisco
>
> MATRIMONIO: 16 Jun 1967 Lagos de Moreno Jalisco
>
> CÓNYUGE Margarita Hermosillo Reynoso
>
>
>
>
>
> ABUELO: José Cruz Gutiérrez Gutiérrez
>
> NACIMIENTO: 16 Jul. 1915 (Estancia Vieja) San Juan de
> los Lagos Jalisco
>
> FALLECIMIENTO: 31 Ago. 1986 Lagos de Moreno Jalisco
>
> MATRIMONIO: 6 Ene. 1935 San Juan de los Lagos Jalisco
>
> CÓNYUGE Virginia Gutiérrez Ramírez
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> BISABUELO: Ubiliado Gutiérrez Gutiérrez
>
> NACIMIENTO:
>
> FALLECIMIENTO:
>
> MATRIMONIO:
>
> CÓNYUGE Leonida Gutiérrez de Anda
>
>
>
>
>
> PAPA DE MI BISABUELO: Alberto Gutiérrez
>
> NACIMIENTO:
>
> FALLECIMIENTO:
>
> MATRIMONIO:
>
> CÓNYUGE Librada Gutiérrez
>
>
>
>
> *Atte:* *Eddy Gtz. H.*
>
> ------------------------------
> From: *"Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez" *
> Reply-To: *Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com*
> To: *Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com*
> Subject: *[Genealogia.org.mx ] 5579 Re: hola
> tomas*
> Date: *Sat, 5 Aug 2006 16:46:55 -0500*
>
> Hola Eddy:
>
> Bueno pues Bienvenido al Grupo, cuentame de done eres y que edad y a
> que te
> dedicas.
>
> Lo mas facil es que me mandes tu genealogia de los Gutierrez para ver
> si con lo que yo tengo te puedo ayudar.
>
> Espero tu respuesta.
>
> Saludos desde Guadalajara:
>
>
> Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gomez.
>
>
> 2006/8/5, eddy gutierrez hermosillo :
> >
> > hola tomoas, muchas gracias por tu informacion
> >
> > oyes pero tengo un problema, acabo de ingresar al grupo, tengo un par de
> > dias; pero al querer ingresar a los foros me marca error (Disculpas, no
> > tiene acceso a la aplicacion requerida) al igual que otras opciones del
> > grupo, no se si me puedas ayudar?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Atte:* *Eddy Gtz. H.*
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > From: *"Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez" *
> > Reply-To: *Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com*
> > To: *Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com*
> > Subject: *[Genealogia.org.mx ] 5563 Re:
> > apellidos Gutierrez y Hermosillo*
> > Date: *Fri, 4 Aug 2006 17:15:24 -0500 *
> >
> >
> > Hola Eddy:
> >
> > Ya tenemos varios dias tocando el dela de los Gutierrez de Mendoza
> > e los
> > Altos de Jalisco, relacionado con los Delgadillo, no se desde cuando
> > perteneces
> > al grupo, pero si ya tienes tiempo revisa en dias pasados y encontraras
> > informacion.
> > Saludos desde Guadalajara:
> >
> > Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez
> >
> >
> > 2006/8/4, eddy gutierrez hermosillo :
> > >
> > >
> > > Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
> > > apellidos Gutierrez y Hermosillo
> > >
> > > SOY DE LOS ALTOS DE JALISCO Y BUSCO LOS APELLIDOS GUTIERREZ Y
> > > HERMOSIILLO
> > > MUCHOS DE ESTOS APELLIDOS SE ENCUENTRAN EN JALOSTOTITNAN O SUS
> > > ALRREDEDORES
> > > CULAQUIER INFORMACION SE LOS AGRADESERE MUCHO; MI CORREO ES:
> > > gutiherre@hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ATTE: Eddy Gutiérrez Hermosillo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez
> > >
> > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> > > * Recibes este mensaje porque estás suscrito al Grupo de Google:
> > > "Genealogía de México".
> > > * Nuestra pagina web oficial la encuentras en
> > > http://www.genealogia.org.mx
> > > * Si quieres publicar en este grupo escribe a:
> > > Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
> > > (Se prefiere que no incluyas todo el email al que respondes).
> > > * Para anular tu suscripción a este grupo envía un email a:
> > > Genealogia-Mexico-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > > * Modifica tus preferencias en
> > > http://groups.google.com.mx/group/Genealogia-Mexico
> > >
> > > Los miembros de la Sociedad Genealógica del Norte de México se
> > > comunican gratuitamente entre si usando equipos de Voz sobre IP de
> > > http://www.tusip.com
> > > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> > >
> > >
>

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez