Nuestros Ranchos Site

A reminder about the Hispanic Conference in Salt Lake City on October 13th &
14thth......

the seminar schedules in both English and Spanish are posted at:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14949

I spoke with George Ryskamp last night and he agreed for us to record any of
his seminars for Joseph's Podcast project.....Joseph, he sends his regards!

If anyone has any questions regarding anything about the conference (which
is free to the public) or about the hotels available, please feel free to
ask.......I will be glad to post the information again if anyone needs it!
There are still a couple of rooms left at the Plaza Best Western Inn ($82.00
plus tax for two persons) right next door to the library and more rooms
available at the Howard Johnson Express Inn ($35.00 plus tax for a single &
$49.00 plus tax for two persons) a couple of blocks away.

The telephone number to call to order your VAULT film in advance is:
1-801-240-2334. If you tell them you are part of a group coming from out of
state to do research they will let you order ANY AMOUNT of films that you
need......otherwise the limit is five films per request.

Please let me know if you need any other assistance.....

Josie in San Antonio

Hello, I need the name of parents, if any, and padrinos on these marriages items

¿some one could extract them from the film in permanent loan? the film is subscribed in the films section of the group

I certanly appreciate this favor, thank you

Mexico

1054. NAZARIO COS Y LEON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 14 MAY 1884 Santa Maria De Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico

1055. JOSEFA COZ Y LEON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 02 OCT 1883 Santa Maria De Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico

1056. MELECIO COZ Y LEON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 27 APR 1882 Santa Maria De Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico

1057. FRANCISCA COZ Y LEON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 27 APR 1882 Santa Maria De Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico

1058. JESUS COS Y LEON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 15 MAY 1884 Santa Maria De Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico

1059. MARIA DEL PILAR COZ Y LEON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 11 JUL 1883 Santa Maria De Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico

1060. ANTONIO COSILEON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 08 MAY 1871 Santa Maria De Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico

Batch M604434 matrimonios Arandas, Jal 1870-1885

Film 0279678

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez
Date: 21-sep-2006 15:08
Subject: Re:
To: jorge luis ramirez gomez

Hola Jorge Luis:

Aqui te pongo lo poco que tengo de los Gutierrez Coronado,
espero te sirva de algo:

*

Descendants of Juan Gutiérrez Coronado
*

*

Generation No. 1
*

*

1.
*Juan1 Gutiérrez Coronado was born Aprox. 1618 in Ocotlán, Jal.. He married
María Navarro-Gaitán-Cabrera 13 Dic 1643 in Ocotlán, Jal., daughter of Pedro
Navarro-Gaitán and María de-Cabrera. She was born Aprox. 1626 in Ocotlán,
Jal., Méx..

Notes for María Navarro-Gaitán-Cabrera:

El Jue-2-Ene-2003, busque en el IGI encontre estos datos como sigue:

Batch# F867916, Sheet# 034, Film# 1396254. Aqui dice que Maria Cabrera nacio
alrrededor 1596.,

y que sus padres son Martin Casillas y Mencia González de Cabrera. y el
listado de sus hijos.

More About Juan Gutiérrez Coronado and María Navarro-Gaitán-Cabrera:

Marriage: 13 Dic 1643, Ocotlán, Jal.

Children of Juan Gutiérrez Coronado and María Navarro-Gaitán-Cabrera are:

2. i. Juan2 Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, b. Aprox. 1645.

ii. María Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, b. Feb 1647, Ocotlán, Jal..

More About María Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro:

Baptism: 20 Feb 1647, Ocotlán, Jal.
*

iii. Petronila Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, b. Ene 1649, Ocotlán, Jal..

More About Petronila Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro:

Baptism: 28 Ene 1649, Ocotlán, Jal.
**

iv. Antonia Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, b. Dic 1661, Ocotlán, Jal..

More About Antonia Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro:

Baptism: 05 Dic 1661, Ocotlán, Jal.
**

v. Nicolasa Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, b. Oct 1663, Poncitlán Pueblo, Jal..

More About Nicolasa Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro:

Baptism: 01 Oct 1663, Poncitlán Pueblo, Jal.
**

3. vi. Felipe Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, b. Aprox. 1666.

4. vii. Jóse Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, b. Aprox. 1670.
*

*

Generation No. 2
*

*

2.
*Juan2 Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro (Juan1 Gutiérrez Coronado) was born Aprox.
1645. He married Juana de la Mora Zamora Aprox. 1671 in Ocotlán, Jal.,
daughter of Fernando de la Mora and María Zamora. She was born Aprox. 1652.

More About Juan Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro and Juana de la Mora Zamora:

Marriage: Aprox. 1671, Ocotlán, Jal.

Children of Juan Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro and Juana de la Mora Zamora are:

5. i. Juana3 Gutiérrez Coronado de la Mora, b. Aprox. 1674, Ocotlán, Jal..

ii. Juan Gutiérrez Coronado de la Mora, b. Aprox. 1692, Ocotlán, Jal.; m.
Justa-Lugarda de Alba Bocanegra Glez, 13 Ene 1721, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jal.;
b. Sep 1699, Tepatitlán, Jal..

More About Justa-Lugarda de Alba Bocanegra Glez:

Baptism: 04 Sep 1699, Tepatitlán, Jal.

More About Juan Gutiérrez Coronado de la Mora and Justa-Lugarda de Alba
Bocanegra Glez:

Marriage: 13 Ene 1721, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jal.
*

iii. Francisco Gutiérrez Coronado de la Mora, m. Antonia de Alba Bocanegra
Glez, 01 Jun 1711, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jal.; b. Jul 1690, Tepatitlán, Jal..

More About Antonia de Alba Bocanegra Glez:

Baptism: 20 Jul 1690, Capilla de Mezcala, Tepatitlán, Jal.

More About Francisco Gutiérrez Coronado de la Mora and Antonia de Alba
Bocanegra Glez:

Marriage: 01 Jun 1711, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jal.
*

*

3.
*Felipe2 Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro (Juan1 Gutiérrez Coronado) was born
Aprox. 1666. He married Francisca Glez de Hermosillo Renteria Aprox. 1693 in
Jalostotitlán, Jal., daughter of Melchor González de Hermosillo and
Francisca Renteria Mojica. She was born Aprox. 1675.

More About Felipe Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro and Francisca Glez de
Hermosillo Renteria:

Marriage: Aprox. 1693, Jalostotitlán, Jal.

Children of Felipe Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro and Francisca Glez de
Hermosillo Renteria are:

i. Felipe3 Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1694,
Jalostotitlán, Jal..

ii. Melchor Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1696,
Jalostotitlán, Jal.; d. 24 Oct 1747.

iii. Miguel Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1697,
Jalostotitlán, Jal.; d. 03 Sep 1766.

iv. Antonio Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1702,
Jalostotitlán, Jal..

v. Tomás-Joaqu Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1707,
Jalostotitlán, Jal.; d. 08 Oct 1747.

vi. Juan-Fco Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1714,
Jalostotitlán, Jal..

6. vii. José-Bonifa Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo.

*

4.
*Jóse2 Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro (Juan1 Gutiérrez Coronado) was born Aprox.
1670. He married Mariana Hermosillo Camarena Aprox. 1695 in Jalostotitlan,
Jalisco, Mexico, daughter of Miguel González de Hermosillo and María
Camarena. She was born Aprox. 1674 in Jalostotitlán, Jal., and died 10 Ago
1716.

More About Jóse Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro and Mariana Hermosillo Camarena:

Marriage: Aprox. 1695, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico

Children of Jóse Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro and Mariana Hermosillo Camarena
are:

i. María3 Gutiérrez Coronado Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1696, Jalostotitlán,
Jal.; d. 01 Jun 1763; m. Luis-Antonio Casillas Cabrera de Rodas, 12 Nov
1715, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.; b. Aprox. 1685,
Jalostotitlán, Jal..

More About Luis-Antonio Casillas Cabrera de Rodas and María Gutiérrez
Coronado Hermosillo:

Marriage: 12 Nov 1715, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.
*

ii. Miguel Gutiérrez Coronado Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1698, Jalostotitlán,
Jal.; d. 17 Feb 1759; m. Teresa Glez de Hermosillo Lomelín, 22 Ene 1731,
Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.; b. Unknown; d. 02 Dic 1731.

More About Miguel Gutiérrez Coronado Hermosillo and Teresa Glez de
Hermosillo Lomelín:

Marriage: 22 Ene 1731, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.
**

iii. Ana Gutiérrez Coronado Hermosillo, b. Aprox. 1702, Jalostotitlán, Jal..
*

*

Generation No. 3
*

*

5.
*Juana3 Gutiérrez Coronado de la Mora (Juan2 Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro,
Juan1 Gutiérrez Coronado) was born Aprox. 1674 in Ocotlán, Jal.. She married
Geronimo Glez de Hermosillo Renteria Aprox. 1694 in Ocotlán, Jal., son of
Melchor González de Hermosillo and Francisca Renteria Mojica. He was born
Aprox. 1669 in Jalostotitlán, Jal..

More About Geronimo Glez de Hermosillo Renteria and Juana Gutiérrez Coronado
de la Mora:

Marriage: Aprox. 1694, Ocotlán, Jal.

Child of Juana Gutiérrez Coronado de la Mora and Geronimo Glez de Hermosillo
Renteria is:

i. Geronimo4 Glez de Hermosillo Gtz Coronado, m. Ana-Gertrudis Lozano
Enríquez, 29 Nov 1722, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.; b. Mar
1702, Jalostotitlán, Jal..

More About Ana-Gertrudis Lozano Enríquez:

Baptism: 22 Mar 1702, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.

More About Geronimo Glez de Hermosillo Gtz Coronado and Ana-Gertrudis Lozano
Enríquez:

Marriage: 29 Nov 1722, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.

*

6.
*José-Bonifa3 Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo (Felipe2 Gutiérrez Coronado
Navarro, Juan1 Gutiérrez Coronado) He married Ana González 01 Jul 1748 in
Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal..

More About José-Bonifa Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo and Ana González:

Marriage: 01 Jul 1748, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.

Child of José-Bonifa Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo and Ana González is:

7. i. Prudencio4 Gutiérrez Coronado.

*

Generation No. 4
*

*

7.
*Prudencio4 Gutiérrez Coronado (José-Bonifa3 Gutiérrez Coronado Glez
Hermosillo, Felipe2 Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro, Juan1 Gutiérrez Coronado) He
married Ma-Dolores Hermosillo 11 May 1785 in Ntra. Sra. Asunción,
Jalostotitlán, Jal., daughter of Cristobal Hermosillo Padilla and Josefa
Alvarez Tostado Ramírez Hermosillo.

More About Prudencio Gutiérrez Coronado and Ma-Dolores Hermosillo:

Marriage: 11 May 1785, Ntra. Sra. Asunción, Jalostotitlán, Jal.

Child of Prudencio Gutiérrez Coronado and Ma-Dolores Hermosillo is:

8. i. Severiana5 Gutiérrez Hermosillo.

*

Generation No. 5
*

*

8.
*Severiana5 Gutiérrez Hermosillo (Prudencio4 Gutiérrez Coronado, José-Bonifa
3 Gutiérrez Coronado Glez Hermosillo, Felipe2 Gutiérrez Coronado Navarro,
Juan 1 Gutiérrez Coronado) She married José-Agustin Martín del Campo Pérez
07 Ene 1812 in Tepatitlán, Jal., son of José-Antonio-Boni Martín del Campo
de la Torre and Ma-Antonia Pérez de Paredes Ochoa. He was born Dic 1787 in
Tepatitlán, Jal..

More About José-Agustin Martín del Campo Pérez:

Baptism: 12 Dic 1787, Tepatitlán, Jal.

More About José-Agustin Martín del Campo Pérez and Severiana Gutiérrez
Hermosillo:

Marriage: 07 Ene 1812, Tepatitlán, Jal.

Children of Severiana Gutiérrez Hermosillo and José-Agustin Martín del Campo
Pérez are:

i. Ma-Cecilia6 Martín del Campo Gutiérrez, b. 22 Nov 1817.

More About Ma-Cecilia Martín del Campo Gutiérrez:

Baptism: 29 Nov 1817, Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jal.
*

ii. Ma-Anacleta Martín del Campo Gutiérrez, b. Jul 1822, Tepatitlán, Jal..

More About Ma-Anacleta Martín del Campo Gutiérrez:

Baptism: 22 Jul 1822, Tepatitlán, Jal.
**

Descendants of Rosalia Gutiérrez Coronado
*

*

Generation No. 1
*

*

1.
*ROSALIA1 GUTIÉRREZ CORONADO died Bef. Jun 1792. She married JOAQUIN GONZÁLEZ
DE HERMOSILLO. He died Aft. Jun 1792.

Children of R
OSALIA GUTIÉRREZ C ORONADO and JOAQUIN G ONZÁLEZ DE HERMOSILLO are:

i. M
A-DE-SN-L UCAS2 GONZÁLEZ DE HERMOSILLO GUTIÉRRE, b. La Laja, Jalos, Jal.; m.
JUAN- MARÍA GÓMEZ HM, 16 Jun 1792, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jal.Méx.; b. Agua
Blanca, Tepa, Jal..

Marriage Notes for M
A-DE-SN-L UCAS GONZÁLEZ DE H ERMOSILLO GUTIÉRRE and JUAN- MARÍA GÓMEZ HM:

Tepa.M8519.

Esta Fe se encuentra en el Vol# 05 de Matrimonios a Fojas# 82 Fte. y dice
asi:

Fue vista el Mie-10-Ene-2001.

Al Margen dice: =-510- -Aguablanca- -D.n Juan Maria- -Gomes Hurtado- -de
Mendoza- -con-

-D.a Maria de S.n- -Lucas Gonz.s de- -Hermosillo Esp.s-=

En Tepa, el 16-Jun-1792, Yo el B.r d.n Dalvador Sandoval.....a D.n Juan
Maria Gomes, Esp.l

Natural, y Vec.o de esta Felig.a en la Agua Blanca, Viudo de D.a
M.aGertrudis Romero mas-

de tres anos cuyo cuerpo esta Sepultado en esta Parroquia, con D.a M.a de
S.n Lucas Gonz.s

de Hermosillo Esp.la Natural de la Laja Felig.a de
Xalostotit.n, y desde nina Vec.a de ---

esta Felig.a en la Lavor Nueva, hija legma. de D.n Juachin Gonz.s de
Hermosillo, y de D.a-

Rosalia Gutierres Coronado, difunta: Haviendose.......fueron Pad.s D.n Jose
Manuel Gomes,y

D.a Maria Gomes: siendo testigos D.n Juan Pena, D.n Ant.o Rafael Albares, y
Thomas Cordero

Sacristan.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ii. M
A-FELIPA-R AFA GONZÁLEZ DE HERMOSILLO GUTIÉRRE, b. La Laja, Jalos, Jal.; m.
IGNACIO DE LA TORRE I BARRA, 16 Jun 1792, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jal.Méx.;
b. Cacastitan, Tepa, Jal..

Marriage Notes for M
A-FELIPA-R AFA GONZÁLEZ DE H ERMOSILLO GUTIÉRRE and IGNACIO DE LA TORRE IBARRA:

Tepa.M8519.95 = Matrimonio de Ygnacio de la Torre con Maria Felipa Rafaela
Gonzales de Hermosillo

el 16-Jun-1792.

Tepa.M8519.

Esta Fe se encuentra en el Vol# 05 de Matrimonios a Fojas# 82 Fte. y dice
asi:

Fue vista el Mie-10-Ene-2001.

Al Margen dice: =-511- -Lavor Nueva- -D.n Ygnacio de la Tor- -re Espanol-
-con-

-D.a M.a Felipa Rafa- -ela Gonz.s de Her- -mosillo-=

En Tepa, el 16-Jun-1792, Yo el B.r D.n Salvador Sandoval.......a D.n Ygnacio
de la Torre, Esp.l

Orig.o y Vec.o de esta Felig.a en Cacastitan, hijo legmo. de D.n Juan Jose
de la Torre, y de --

D.a M.a Ybarra, con D.a M.a Felipa Rafaela Gonz.s de Hermosillo,
Esp.la
Orig.a de la Laja -----

Felig.a de Xalostot.n y Vec.a de esta Siete anos ha, en la Lavor nueva, hija
legma. de D.n ----

Juachin Gonz.s de Hermosillo, y de D.a Rosalia Gutierres, Dif.ta,
Haviendose.......fueron Pad.s

D.n Jose Manuel de la Torre, y D.a M.a Manuela Gomes, siendo testigos
D.nJuan Pena,
D.n Ant.o-

de la Mora, y Thomas Cordero Sacristan.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*

Descendants of Manuel-Antonio GUTIERREZ-CORONADO
*

*

Generation No. 1
*

*

1.
*MANUEL-ANTONIO1 GUTIERREZ-CORONADO was born Unknown in Probablemente:
Jalisco, Mexico., and died Dead in Probablemente: Jalisco, Mexico.. He
married M ARGARITA CORTES Unknown in Probablemente: Jalisco, Mexico.. She
was born Unknown in Probablemente: Jalisco, Mexico., and died Dead in
Probablemente: Jalisco, Mexico..

Child of M
ANUEL-ANTONIO GUTIERREZ -CORONADO and MARGARITA CORTES is:

i. J
OSE-ANTONIO2 GUTIERREZ-CORONADO-CORTES, b. Unknown, Probablemente: Jalisco,
Mexico.; d. Dead, Probablemente: Jalisco, Mexico.; m. M ARIA NAVARRO-VELASCO,
20 May 1789, Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jalisco, MEXICO; b. Unknown,
Probablemente: Jalisco, Mexico.; d. Dead, Probablemente: Jalisco, Mexico..

Marriage Notes for J
OSE-ANTONIO GUTIERREZ -CORONADO-CORTES and M ARIA NAVARRO-VELASCO:

Tepa.M8519.61 = Matrimonio de Maria Navarro con Jose Antonio Gutierres
Coronado el 20-May-1789.

Tepa.M8519.

Esta Fe se encuentra en el Vol# 05 de Matrimonios a Fojas# 37 Fte. y dice
asi:

Fue vista el Lun-12-Jun-2000 .

Acta# 1299, en Tepa, el 20-May-1789, a D.n Jose Antonio Gutierres Coronado,
Esp.l Orig.o y Vec.o

de esta Felig.a en Sta. Ros, hijo legmo. de D.n Manuel Ant.o Gutierres
Coronado, y de D.a ------

Margarita Cortes, con D.a Maria Navarro, Esp.la Orig.a , y
Vec.a de esta Felig.a e las Ormig.s -

hija legma. de D.n Juachin Navarro, def.to y de D.a Petra Velasco:
Haviendose...................

fueron Padrinos D.n Jasinto de la Torre, y D.a M.a Ant.a Anaya: siendo
testig.s D.n Jose Ant.o -

Pena, Nicolas Becerra, y Thomas Cordero Sacristan.

I wrongly submited a film for Atemajac De Brizuela, please erase from the list, the number is 0279529, I already summited it in the place it belongs which is Arandas, Jalisco.

[Can someone Translate this for me?]

Right now the group is hovering around 160 members. . .but I predict
(please group members make me a false prophet). . .I predict that on the
32nd of January 2007 there will be 35% fewer members in the group. .
.WHY??? Because 35% of the new members will fail to do one of three things:

1) Understand that when they agreed to send in a representative tree
showing their connection to our area of research that I completely meant
they needed to do this within a reasonable time (i.e. 31 January 2007)
or be removed from the group.

2) They failed to communicate with me (makas(remove)@nc.rr.com or
moderator(remove)@nuestrosranchos.org) making a reasonable request for
additional time.

3) Send in their Genealogy Report.

Now I just want to take a second to say that the Nuestros Ranchos group
DOES NOT want your life's genealogical work sent in. Nor do we require
you to send in your gedcom (though several have and this is becoming a
popular way of meeting the requirement). All that is required is a
"REPRESENTATIVE" tree preferably in "genealogy report" form in either
.doc or .rtf format showing your connection to Jalisco, Zacatecas,
and/or Aguascalientes. This representative tree can be written into a
Word document or just into an email. It doesn't have to be fancy and can
be as simple as just listing your grandparents and great grandparents
along with their places and times of birth. . .heck while you're at it
toss in a few of their children and siblings just to flesh it out a bit.
That will take you all of 20-30 minutes to compose if you are a
"serious" researcher, but if you are not, well you might have trouble
and might need to strive toward becoming one by getting more involved.

If you are a new researcher and are in the process of finding
information all you need to do is send me an email and ask for an
extension. Believe me my bark is very much worse than my bite.

Another Note: When you send in your Genealogy Report make absolutely
sure that you "DO NOT INCLUDE LIVING RELATIVES" in the report!!! Very
important for security and privacy sake!!!

If you want to complete the whole process yourself (RECOMMENDED) then go
to the "Files" and then to "Members Genealogies" and see the "WRITTEN IN
STONE" format for the way your folder should look: Your Name (places of
your Nuestros Ranchos research) - PLEASE FOLLOW THIS FORMAT or I'll go
in later and change it. After you see the correct format then go to the
home page or any page of the site and click on "create content" and then
click on "File Folder."

If you have any questions about how to do this ASK!

sincerely and seriously getting down to business,

joseph - moderator

ps: If anyone out there would like to make a translated copy of this
please email me.

pps: i'll be sending out this reminder in September, October, November,
December, and finally one last time at the beginning of 2007. Probably
around the 24th of November I'll start sharpening my Ax.

[Can someone Translate this for me?]

Right now the group is hovering around 160 members. . .but I predict
(please group members make me a false prophet). . .I predict that on the
32nd of January 2007 there will be 35% fewer members in the group. .
.WHY??? Because 35% of the new members will fail to do one of three things:

1) Understand that when they agreed to send in a representative tree
showing their connection to our area of research that I completely meant
they needed to do this within a reasonable time (i.e. 31 January 2007)
or be removed from the group.

2) They failed to communicate with me (makas(remove)@nc.rr.com or
moderator(remove)@nuestrosranchos.org) making a reasonable request for
additional time.

3) Send in their Genealogy Report.

Now I just want to take a second to say that the Nuestros Ranchos group
DOES NOT want your life's genealogical work sent in. Nor do we require
you to send in your gedcom (though several have and this is becoming a
popular way of meeting the requirement). All that is required is a
"REPRESENTATIVE" tree preferably in "genealogy report" form in either
.doc or .rtf format showing your connection to Jalisco, Zacatecas,
and/or Aguascalientes. This representative tree can be written into a
Word document or just into an email. It doesn't have to be fancy and can
be as simple as just listing your grandparents and great grandparents
along with their places and times of birth. . .heck while you're at it
toss in a few of their children and siblings just to flesh it out a bit.
That will take you all of 20-30 minutes to compose if you are a
"serious" researcher, but if you are not, well you might have trouble
and might need to strive toward becoming one by getting more involved.

If you are a new researcher and are in the process of finding
information all you need to do is send me an email and ask for an
extension. Believe me my bark is very much worse than my bite.

Another Note: When you send in your Genealogy Report make absolutely
sure that you "DO NOT INCLUDE LIVING RELATIVES" in the report!!! Very
important for security and privacy sake!!!

If you want to complete the whole process yourself (RECOMMENDED) then go
to the "Files" and then to "Members Genealogies" and see the "WRITTEN IN
STONE" format for the way your folder should look: Your Name (places of
your Nuestros Ranchos research) - PLEASE FOLLOW THIS FORMAT or I'll go
in later and change it. After you see the correct format then go to the
home page or any page of the site and click on "create content" and then
click on "File Folder."

If you have any questions about how to do this ASK!

sincerely and seriously getting down to business,

joseph - moderator

ps: If anyone out there would like to make a translated copy of this
please email me.

pps: i'll be sending out this reminder in September, October, November,
December, and finally one last time at the beginning of 2007. Probably
around the 24th of November I'll start sharpening my Ax.

Disculpen, solo es una pequeña parte de la Genealogia de
los Gutierrez de Mendoza, sobre los que llegaron a vivir primero
a Pegueros, esta en el Boletin no. 1 del Grupo, al final,
creo que en la penultima hoja, esta en formato PDF.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

2006/9/18, eddy gutierrez hermosillo :
>
> SALUDOS TOMAS OYE DONDE ES DONDE MENCIONA GENEALOGIA DE GUTIERREZ DE
> MENDOZA EN LA PAGINA QUE MENCIONAS? , ESTUBE BUSCADO Y NO LO ENCONTRE
>
>
>
> *Atte:* *Eddy Gtz. H.*
>
>

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

----- Original Message ----
From: enrique legaspi
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 12:45:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Distances: Teocaltiche, Nochistlan, Mexticacan & Aguascalientes

The towns are almost a stone's throw from each other. Today, driving time is 10-15 minutes. As a kid I rode a bicyle and it took me 1 hour to 1 1/2 hour. The same goes for Mexticacan, but in the opposite direction from Teocaltiche. (including La Estancia).

Muchas Gracias Enrique,

I will keep this in mind for our Dream Trip to the Los Altos region next year.

Enrique, maybe you can also give us some tips on where to go for our dream trip to study and learn about the histrory of the region. We would also like to play and have some fun, a little Mariachi night music will help us to unite with our ancestral spirits.

Jose Muños of northern Calif has agreed to do some research on places to visit on our 7-10 day dream trip. Anyone who is interested in going, now is your chance to give some input to him as to places of interest to each of you.

I think we definitely should include Guadalajara and Aguascalientes. And of course I would like to go to my ancestral town of Nochistlan. Enrique, does Nochistlan have a town historian who could give us a historical tour, taking into consideration that this was the first and original Guadalajara?

Ok, this is what I propose, we fly into Guadalajara have a carro de sitio ready or tour bus depending on how many people will be coming. We can then drive to Yahualica and spend the night there as they have adequate hotels. Next day onto Mexticacan then to Nochistlan. If we can get a historian for a tour then we can have lunch or dinner in Nochistlan at my cousin's family restaurant el pollo loco which is very good, maybe with a little Mariachi. From Nochistlan onto Teocaltiche where we can spend the night. Does anyone know what we can do as in places of interest in Teocaltiche?

After Teocaltiche we can drive to Aguascalientes where there is much to see and do. I would like to look for Rincon de Romos, Los Cuervos and San Jose de Gracia. If you can make other suggestions for Aguas, speak up now. We can spend the day and night in Aguascalientes.

From Aguas, we decide if we want to go north to Zacatecas, Zacatecas the state capital or if we want to go southeast or northeast as in Totatiche, Tepechitlan, Colotlan, Momax, Jalpa, Jerez, Fresnillo etc. It's our dream trip so we can make it anything we want, of course within reason. Speak up now if you're interested and give Jose Muños your input so we can help him with our needs and wants for this fabulous trip.

Our last place to stay, visit, study and play should be Guadalajara for at least 1 day if not more.

Para los que viven en Guadalajara y sus alrededores, quizas nos pueden orientar hacia puntos de interes historico y tambien nos pueden acompañar en nuestra jornada por la region. Los que vamos de afuera no estamos al tanto del ambiente local o los lugares de interes genealogico. Se les agredeceria su ayuda con sugerencias para este viaje que se llevara acabo el 2007, lo mas probable seria en los meses de Julio o Agosto cuando hay mas oportunidad de tomar vacacion.

Atentamente;
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Calif

Today the drive to Aguascalientes from Nochistlan is 1 hour. Starting in Nochistlan, the road to "Aguas" as the locals call it, will take you past La Estancia, Apulco, through Teocaltiche, past the fork in the road to Jalostotitlan and Lagos de Moreno and finally Aguascalientes.

Hola a Todos:

Para los interesados en la Genealogia de los Altos de Jalisco:

Acabo de encontrar esta pagina de Pegueros, Jalisco,
en la seccion de boletines mensuales trae genealogia sobre
todo de los Gutiérrez de Mendoza que conformaron en gran
medida esta Poblacion que pertenece a Tepatitlán de Morelos
Jalisco, trae el indice de las revistas que publican, donde
estoy seguro trae mas genealogia, lastima que solo publiquen
el inmdice de articulos, deberian tambien poner las revistas
en pdf, seria grandioso.

El link es el siguiente:

http://www.clubpegueros.com

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

I wanted to thank-you, Joseph for helping me get my messages into digest
mode. It was really easy with your directions. Thanks!

Corrine

A majority of eastern jews are type J2. A J2 classification suggested my husband is of Jewish heritage.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Alicia Carrillo : --------------

> Esther,
>
> Can you please tell this dummy what it means to be classified as J2 in your DNA?
>
> Thanks,
> Alicia in San Jose, Ca
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: eaherold@att.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 2:13:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealog

Now that everyone has read the "official" itinerary that I received today
from Ms. Karen Jepson, I want to emphasize that the seminars on both days
are completely free.........and that George Ryskamp will present the seminar
on Friday as well as Saturday. His wife, Peggy Ryskamp, will give a seminar
on Saturday. They will also present a seminar together on Saturday on the
Genealogy of Spain. All the topics sound very interesting...........now I
need to figure out how I can clone myself so I can attend each and every
presentation~! :-)

Josie in San Antonio

Hi, Everyone:

I seem to be having trouble posting messages. They keep getting returned as
Undeliverable, but I will keep trying.

Anyways, I read some of the old messages and found another that is very
informative. I have been putting together a family cookbook in order to
preserve traditional recipes. Thanks be to God, my mom had her mother's
capirotada recipe and I was blown away by the ingredients, tomatos, cheese
and such. Now, since I've read that these are some of the ingredients used
for a lenten dish, I am not so dismayed. My mother said that her mother
made it for Lent and it was a family favorite handed down. My grandmother
was called "La Tapatia" and my mother, since she was born in Guadalajara,
was also called that by her aunts, which made her feel very special.

Corrine Ardoin

Soy Roberto Rojas nieto de Maria Teresa Villalobos Sandoval en linea paterna. Mi abuela estaba avecinada en la ciudad de Lagos de Moreno Jalisco, pero al casarse, cambio de lugar de residencia. Mi bisabuela caso en segundas nupcias con alguien de nombre anastacio Huerta. Al morir joven mi abuela se perdio en gran medida informacion concerniente a la familia Villalobos. De la cual posteriormente me entere hay información escrita en un lugar llamado mesa de los Villalobos. La razon del cambio de residencia se debió al oficio comun de aquellos días de los varones (la mineria ). Estoy interesado en profundizar más acerca de las familia Villalobos y comparto está información con la finalidad de que le sea de utilidad a algun miembro de Nuestros Ranchos

Alicia,

I think you asked what "J2" means. I found the description in Gary Felix' website" http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm

The description reads: "Semitic origin. Mostly found in the Middle East, Mediterranean and North Africa. About 28% of Sephardic Jews have this origin".

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

http://lomexicano.com/mexicanfoodrecipeglossary.htm#r

While I was using the glossary in the link above, I saw a recipe for Enchiladas Zacatecanas. They are made with shredded pork and a sauce made with roasted green chiles and cream, and they are served topped with cooked shredded carrots and shredded potatoes and cheese, and slices of avocado. Scroll down until you see "Zacatecanas".

I am anxious to try these, since I cannot eat the green enchiladas with that green sauce made with tomatillos. Those are too highly acidic, and I suffer from acid reflux disease. The cream would also further smooth out the acid from the green chiles.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

I love to try new recipes, especially for the holidays, and I am seldom daunted by the complexity of some. However, I am kind of stumped by the recipe Joseph put up in the files, but I want to try it. It sounds so fancy, what with the meringue topping, and I love desserts with nuts. (By the way, the recipe lists "dos huevos", but in the directions, they only used the whites to make a meringue).

Alicia, maybe you can help me. I was able to translate most of the ingredients using my Spanish-English dictionary, but some things were not listed there, or I don't know where to obtain some ingredients.

Grajeas -- "small sugar plums". Where would I get these? When I lived in Santa Clara Valley, we had sugar plum trees in the yard, dark with yellow flesh, the kind they make prunes from, I guess. Could I substitute dried prunes?

Biznagas ---"candied cactus". Do most Mexican import stores have this?

Molde refractario -- "refractory". Does this simply mean "heat-resistant"?

Batir las claras a punto de turron --- "beat the whites to the point of nougat consistency". Does this just mean to beat the egg whites until they are stiff?

My mother made a capirotada very similar to this; however, she didn't use the peanuts, meringue, candied cactus, grated coconut or sugar plums.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

Estimado Joseph Puentes:
Te envío mi investigación genealógica. Se trata de un resúmen, pues tengo
más información de las principales líneas que se integran en las diversas
generaciones. No me he limitado a las cuestiones puramente familiares, sino
que he recuperado el contexto de sus vidas en ranchos, estancias y
haciendas. Actualmente investigo los apellidos Romo de Vivar; González de
Hermosillo; Díaz de León; Muñóz de la Barba y Beltrán de la Cueva, que
sonfamilias puramente españolas. Sin embargo, en la línea Ojeda-Palomino y
Candelas-Palacios, encontré diversos ancestros en calidades de castas:
"moriscos", "mulatos", "saltapatrás" y "lobos", todos siendo esclavos hasta
1821, en la servidumbre de la hacienda de "Trancoso", Zacatecas pero
procedentes, ¡que interesante!, de ancestros en el Africa Occidental.
Saludos
P.D. Te pido una disculpa por la demora, pues ha sido por razones de
trabajo.

_________________________________________________________________
Prodigy/MSN. Más Útil Cada Día http://www.prodigy.msn.com

If you’re interested in the Archives of the Indies I want to recommend an excellent book:

Discovering the Americas: Archives of the Indies.

It’s a recent over-sized volume and gives a great overview of the archive itself and its contents, including pictures of original documents, sketches and drawings and actual samples of materials sent from New Spain and other territories, including samples of silk and other fabrics that look brand new, rather than five hundred years old.

I regret that I never made it to the Archives of the Indies in Seville.

I was a royal scholar at the Instituto de Cooperacion Iberoamericano in the Moncloa in Madrid during the summer of 1986, and enjoyed a wealth of acculturation. Every Friday our art professor took us to the nearby Prado Museum where we spent an entire morning experiencing hundreds of masterpieces.

We went on field trips to Toledo where we visited El Transito Synagogue and many other places of interest.

I also got to go to El Escorial. And the Zarzuela Palace in Madrid. And a magnificent Egyptian Temple relocated piece by piece from Egypt ahead of the rising waters of the Aswan High Dam.

But not the Archives of the Indies:(

Even when my sister and I visited Seville for Expo ’92, we somehow missed the archives.

Good Evening to All, Just wanted to let everyone know how much I appreciate Joseph's kindness and patience in helping this novice with the uploading of my folder and file. I continue my research on my Onate and Santelices genealogy in Panuco, Vetagrande, Villa Garcia, and Zacatecas, Zacatecas; Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes; and Guadalajara, Jalisco. Wish me luck, and thanks so much. Alice B.Blake

Esther:

In response to your question for Joseph, the index of the AGI or Archives of the Indies is digitized along with those of the major Spanish archives in a website run by the Ministry of Culture in Spain.

The website is called Archivos Españoles en Red (AER) and the link is available in the LINKS section of the Nuestros Ranchos site.

http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/

As far as using it, you have to sign up for an account and searching is a bit of a crapshoot I have found because many of the search criteria do not work.

As far as searching passenger records, the best bet is to do a general search, use two fields and put the name in one and the work "pasajero" in the other. If the last name is uncommon, just the last name is best but if it is a common name, you will have to try different permutations of the whole name in quotes, i.e. "Jose Godoy", "Jose de Godoy", "Joseph de Godoi", etc.

There are some guides to using AER:

http://www.genealogica.net/aer.html

http://www.cubagenweb.org/ships/e-index.htm

Hi,

I have a research question about the following information. I wanted to
know if anyone knows whether this is true or not. "Mexican customs and
passenger lists do not begin until 1903, except for documents relating to
the expulsion of Spaniards during the period 1820-1850." Also, "all persons
traveling to New Spain had to be cleared by the Casa de la Contratacion in
Seville."

The reason I am looking into passenger lists at this time is because I am
also researching my Cabral/Figueroa line, which almost immediately takes me
to their point of immigration. My great-grandfather Alberto Martin Del
Campo married a woman named Francisca Cabral Gonzalez, a first-generation
born Mexican, whose mother and father immigrated to Mexico, Pioquinta
Gonzalez Figueroa of nobility from Madrid, Spain and Benigno Cabral, a
merchant sailor from Portugal. They eloped, sailing out of Seville,
possibly the 1850's, and got married in Zacatecas against Pioquinta's family
wishes. So, if the customs and passenger lists did not begin until 1903,
does this mean I won't find a record of their immigration?

BTW, someone placed on the IGI two people with these same names as having
been born in Guadalajara, Benigno Cabral and Pioquinta Gonzalez. If they
are the same people as my ancestors, then I think they're wrong, because
they were not born in Mexico. They didn't cite their source for that
information, however.

Corrine Ardoin

Hi,

I have been researching the Martin Del Campo name on the Family Search IGI
and found a couple that may be connected to my family line. It appears
someone has been doing microfilm research on the family, because there is a
lot from the same source, the Nuestra Senora De Guadalupe Church in
Guadalajara, Jalisco. The furthest back I have in my family history is a
Tomas Martin Del Campo who married Nieves Munoz Aviles and that they resided
in Guadalajara. Their son's marriage record spells the names just this way
as I have. The IGI record shows a marriage between a Tomas Martin Del Campo
and a Maria De Las Nieves Munes, which makes me wonder if these are the same
people. I plan to look into this for myself because, if it is them, then I
have found their parents, as well, which will take me one more generation
back in my ancestry. Their parents names given are Alejandro Martin Del
Campo and Tomasa Romero (Tomas's parents) and Jose Ynes Munes and Ysidra
Alcala (Maria de las Nieves' parents). Tomas and Maria de las Nieves were
married on August 31, 1850, according to this record. My Tomas and Nieves,
based on their son's age at his marriage, I guessed would have been married
about 1850-51, so it may be the same people. Still, I have to check on
that. I have made mistakes before, so eager for someone to be the one I'm
looking for!

Another Martin Del Campo tidbit: The name "Martin" means "warlike." Mar is
from the Greek word for war (Mars being the God of War). Del Campo means
"of the fields" or "of the countryside." So, they were the Martins Of The
Fields or Countryside. Looking at Steven Hernandez' information that the
Martin Del Campos he researched came from Revilla de Campos. I looked on
the map and the Campos River runs through there. I wonder which came first,
the people and towns named for the river or the river named for the people
and towns?

Take care,
Corrine Ardoin

Hi, Everyone:

I was again catching up with old archival messages. Almost there. Anyways,
I came across a discussion on the pronunciation of Guadalajara. I, too,
found out it was named after Guadalajara, Spain, an Arabic name. The part
of the name, "al," means "the" in Arabic. Like in "Alhambra," in the Los
Angeles area.

Corrine Ardoin

Genealogia.org.mx] 6301 Re: POR QUE DEJARON DE IMPORTAR LOS ANCESTROS

Hola a Todos:

Saludos desde La Perla de Ocidente, mi bella Guadalajara:

Muy interesante todo lo que dicen con respecto a como se
simplificaron
los apellidos y el desinteres por la Genealogia o Historia Familiar.
Yo por mi parte opino lo siguiente, todo lo anterior como casi todo
en la sociedad
se debe a cuestiones Politicas, Religiosas y Economicas.
Yo creo que una razon por la que se acortaron l,os apellidos
compuestos
si fue el aspecto politico social y sobre todo el practico, primero, si tubo
que ver
la cuestion social de la Independencia y el llamado a la igualdad social, yo
sabia
que en efecto, despues de la guerra de Independencia, se giro un decreto en
el sentido
de que se debian suprimir las Castas o Diferiencias de Clases, es decir, se
ordeno
que se suprimiera de todo documento oficial, las distinciones y castas, y
que se
debia llamarcon igualdad a todos los hombres y mujeres "Ciudadanos" y muchos
de
los que aqui escriben, en sus investigaciones debieron notarlo, se elimino
de las
fés de bautismo y matrimonio, los "Don", o "Doña" , lo de Mestizo, Indio, o
Español y
simplemente se antepuso el "Ciudadano" o "Ciudadana" y seguramente segun
comenta
una persona aqui mismo, tambien por decreto se quito lo de "de" y "de la"
antes de
los apellidos.
Con respecto al desinteres en la actualidad sobre la genealogia o
historia familiar
tambien creo tiene origen en el cambio social dado en la Independencia de
Mexico,
como en toda guerra la historia y las reglas la hacen los vencedores, y todo
lo que
"olia" a los vencidos, se repudiaba y se perseguia, o se enterraba, asi que
la forma
de pensar y actuar de las personas antes de la independencia, se trato de
eliminar
despues de la misma, asi tenemos que antes de la independencia, las personas
pensaban que una de sus grandes herencias era la historia familiar, la
hidalgia o
la nobleza, asi que era muy importante transmitir esta herencia de padres a
hijos,
asi que se fomentaba mucho, aunque sea de forma verbal, el conocimiento de
la
historia familiar, asi era el pensamiento hasta antes de la Independencia,
asi que
despues de la INdependencia, este pensamiento se repudio y se persigio y fue

tabu, "olia" a "maldito Español" o "Gachupin", por eso, para honrar la lucha
de
independencia, toda la forma de pensar y de actuar de "antes" se olvido, y
parte de
este "olivido" fue la tradicion de heredar o darle importancia a la
Genealogia o
Historia Familiar.
Además por cuestion demografica tambien esto ocurrio, ya que la
poblacion
crece y crece exponencialmente y cada vez es mas dificil, atender las
necesidades
de tan creciente poblacion, es por eso que a los encargados de dar servicios
religiosos
o civiles, con el crecimiiento de la poblacion les es mas dificil atender en
lo particular
a cada individuo y se trata de simplificar todo, asi que por razones
demograficas, en
particular a los encargados de "escribir" las actas ya sea religiosas o
civiles, cada vez
se les hace mas dificil, "profundizar" en datos de cadsa individuo, asi que
con la carga
de trabajo, tratan siempre de hacerse la vida mas facil y simplificar al
maximo su
actividad, es por eso tambien que se suprimen de las actas todo lo
anteriormente
dicho, las castas, los titulos, y los apellidos compuestos, incluidos el
"de" y el
"de la", y este BUM Demografico aunado a "loqueras" o "caprichos" politicos
o
administrativos, muchas veces va en deterioro de lo establecido, valga esto
para
comentar, que YO NO ESTOY DE ACUERDO, con lo que actualmente hacen los
oficiales del registro civil, que con su afan de simplificar, ahora, ya no
ponren en
las actas de Nacimiento o bautismo, el origen y vecindad de los
protagonistas de
las actas, asi antes en las actas se ponia "Fulano De Tal, originario de tal
lugar y
residente o vecino de tal lugar", ahora SIMPLEMENTE se pone "Mexicano" o de
"Nacionalidad Mexicana", por eso exhorto a los miembros de este grupo
Genealogico
y de otros Grupos Genealogicos o Investigadores, que dirijamos una carta
firmada por
todos nosotros al Presidente de la Republica, pidiendo en nombre de
presentes y
futuros investigadores que se vuelva al sistema anterior de poner el lugar
de origen
y procedencia de las personas involucradas en el acto civil o religioso, y
que se trate
de poner mas datos en vez de suprimirlos, asi seria fabuloso para los
futuros
investigadores, que en estas actas por Decreto de Ley, deban incluirse
ademas,
minimo 2 generaciones de ancestros, es decir padres y abuelos, con la
totalidad de
sus datos, origen y vencindad de cada uno, edades y si se puede no solo que
mencionen su edad, sino se fecha exacta de nacimiento, y ahora con el
estableci-
miento del CURP (Clave Unica de Registro de Poblacion), seria fabuloso que
se
incluyera esta clave de cada persona que interviene en el acta y asi tener
otra
valiosa referencia para "Rastrear" a cada persona.
Y otro motivo por el que muchas veces se suprimen palabras o letras o
datos, es
simplemente la flojera, el ocio o el desinteres, asi mismo los
investigadores que
len esto, seguramente se daran cuenta, cuando un parroco o encargado del
registro
civil es flojo y como decia "Jaimito" en el Chavo del Ocho, se quieren
ahorrar la fatiga,
asi es que como a estas personas con el aumento de poblacion se les
acrecentaba
tambien el trabajo, trataban por eso de trabajar lo menos posible y
suprimieran datos
que ahora a nosotros los investigadores nos hacen tanta falta, asi un
parroco o
escribano flojo, suprimia muchos datos, como el origen o vecindad, y a veces
con
dificultad ponia el nombre del padre, a veces de la madre ponia solo el
nombre de
pila y de los abuelos para ahorrarse letras, ponia Abuelos NO conocidos,
esto
tambien pasaba con los oficiales del registro civil, que para ahorrarse
tiempo y
trabajo constantemente no ponian datros, y sobre todo ponian que NO FIRMA
por NO SABER, y MENTIRA, muchas de la veces, si sabian firmar y leer y
escribir,
asi un ejemplo, en la boda civil de una pareja de mis bisabuelos, en el acta
de
matrimonio el oficial puso, que no firmaban por no saber, pero 15 o 20 dias
antes
de el acto en el Acta de Presentacion, mis bisabuelos, si sabian leer y
escribir y
firmaron el acta de presentacion, y uno no puede mas que pensar en forma
graciosa
y decir "a que caray, a mis bisabuelos se les olvido leer y escribir en el
termino de
15 o 20 dias", asi gracias a este desinteres de las personas encargadas de
los
libros, nos han privado a nosotros los investigadores de muchos datos y de
muchas
valiosisimas firmas de nuestros ancestros.

Otro motivo para la supresion de datos es el Economico, se ve
claramente en
las fes de bautismo o boda, cuando mediaba una genereso propina a l parroco
o
escribano, este en agradecimiento ponia las mejores flores en el acta que
escribia,
no dejaba pasar ningun dato y lo adornaba, con el "Don", con el "Doña" y
ponia
los apellidos compuestos sin omitir nada, en cambio cuando a la persona que
bautizaban o desposaban, era "Tacaño" o simplemente era pobre o de casta
inferior
alli ni se molestaban en poner datos, simplemente enfatizaban su baja clase
social
con las castas, poniendo que eran INDIOS o MULATOS o ESCLAVOS, solo ponian
el nombre del padre, el nombre de pila de la madre y ABUELOS NO CONOCIDOS,
y no en pocas ocasiones ponian la leyenda "Se bautizo de LIMOSNA", para que
quedara asentado que era un pobreton que no dio ningun pago o propina por
bautizar o por el matrimonio, y si era español o crillo, pero "Tacaño" o no
generoso,
tambien se notaba, porque alli no ponian el "Don", y no ponian los apellidos

compuestos, sino lo mas simples posibles, como una forma de protestar por no
haber recibido una buena "propina".

En una platica con otros investigadores, se comento que asi como lo
menciona
Jorge Luis Ramirez, alrededor de 1800, en visperas de la Independencia, se
dejaron
de escribir los apellidos compuestos, en los protocolos notariales y
documentos de
tipo mas oficial o comercial, si se siguio usando los apellidos compuestos,
hasta
muy entrado el siglo 19, asi Jorge Luis, si buscas a tus ancestros en
protocolos
notariales o de tipo comercial o de registro de propiedades, es casi seguro
que
alli si los vas a encontrar mencionados con su apellido compuesto de Ramírez
de
Hermosillo, hasta casi llegar a 1900.

Atentamente:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

El día 7/09/06, Ramírez escribió:

Hola:

Yo también tenco esa incógnita desde hace tiempo, porque me he
encontrado con varias actas de bautizmos de mis ancestros en los que no
viene el nombre de los abuelos y solo una leyenda que dice algo así
"abuelos no conocieron", pero lo curioso de esto es que en otros hijos
si los anotaron.

Además también me pregunto porque también los de los Altos de
Jalisco, por poner un ejemplo, simplificaron sus apellidos a tan solo
un apellido, siendo que la mayoría de los apellidos eran compuestos,
por ejemplo el mío era Ramírez de Hermosillo, pero alrededor de 1800,
mis ancestros dejaron de usar el de Hermosillo hasta quedar en solo
Ramírez.

Creo que sería bueno tratar de saber los motivos que orillaron a que
no se interesaran por las relaciones de familia y de linaje.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.