Nuestros Ranchos Site

Alice,

Below is the interpretation of Tomas Alejandro's message; I cannot call it a translation because I am not fluent in Spanish as are Tomas, Arturo, etc.

Emilie
Hi, Ricardo,

It is a great pleasure that you wrote to me and to know that we share the same interests in genealogy and in our dear Pueblo el Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco.

You tell me that you weren't born there. Tell me where you were born, where you live, and what you are involved in at the moment.

Thanks also for the genealogy you found; I think it is the one I sent myself to a world genealogy project about 6 or 7 years ago, that they present to you as a project not costing anything and that will be available publicly. I sent them what I had investigated up to that time, with great hopes that in truth it was a database open to the public, but it appeared that that was not possible and always there is that economic interest on their part, and all that information I sent (and I am sure they did this also with others) now appears in a private database and if you want to access it, you have to pay, with the respect that they take advantage of my trust and that of others in order to make themselves rich. I hope that at least they have the decency to give me credit for the information as the author of the research and the submission of that information. Maybe you can tell me, since it appears you paid for the information, I hope that at least they give me a mention, al
though I
have no knowledge of the commercial aspects, since I sent them the information with the hope that they were a public site and that anyone could consult and contribute to a world-wide genealogical database.

Exactly what is that database that you can access, where you say they have lots of information about Los Altos de Jalisco and how much does it cost to access it?

I am sending a copy of this e-mail to Monica Lynn Gonzales Ponce the webmaster of Valle de Guadalupe.com, to which I give thanks also for contacting me and putting me in touch with you. How nice that there exist several sites dedicated to El Valle de Guadalupe.

With respect to my parentage from Jose Isavel Villegas Franco and his sons Rigoberto and Cornelio, I wish to tell you that he is my cousin in the second degree, and his sons would be my nephews, since the father of Jose Isabel was the deceased Zeferino Villegas Gomez, first cousin of my father, and the father of Zeferino was my great uncle Jose Blas Villegas Navarro, brother of my grandfather Francisco. I do not have the pleasure of knowing Jose Isavel and his sons and I would like very much to know them, and get their information to complete my genealogy. I don't know if you can give me the information in order for me to contact them. It is strange that Jose Isabel is my cousin since he was born in 1938; he is almost the same age as my father who was born in 1932, but that is the way it is. There are many members of the Villegas family whose surname is Villegas Franco since three sons of my great uncle Blas Villegas are: Zeferino, Marcelino and Jose Luis. They marrie
d three
sisters: Simona, Mariana, and Elisea Franco Gomez, and from what I have heard (I don't have all his genealogy) they were very prolific marital unions, since each had a minimum of twelve children. In general, all the children of my uncle Blas (whose first marriage to Mariana Gomez resulted in 8 sons and not one daughter, a good thing for the continuation of the surname Villegas), had many children and descendants; like I said, all had a minimum of 12 children.

For certain I have doubts that I would like to resolve, and I would like to see if you or someone else reading this can help me. I have not found all the baptism records for the brothers of my uncle Francisco; I want to one day go to the parish of the Capilla de Guadalupe, that has recently been made a municipality in Jalisco, and I have to do it directly because shamefully the Parish of the Capilla de Guadalupe and of the Canadas de Obregon have not been microfilmed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), thus they are not available in the Family History Centers.

My great-grandfather Tomas Villegas Flores (in whose honor they named my father and I was named for both of them) appears to have baptized his children in the Capilla de Guadalupe, since it appears it was closer than El Terrero and closer than La Llave where he lived, so say my father and his brothers. It seems my great-grandparents Tomas Villegas and Paula Navarro had 18 or 19 children; this number seems a little exaggerated to me and I was told of the following children: Jose Blas, Modesto, Jose, Antonio, Regino, Francisco, Maria, Isabel, Merced, Francisca, Serapia all that my father and his brothers know of and mention. I also have found the baptism records of Jose Tereso de Jesus who was baptized the 15th of October of 1873 in the Capilla de Gadalupe, 5 months after the marriage of my great-grandparents Tomas and Paula, and I deduce that this marriage was one of urgency since my great-grandmother was four months pregnant when they married. The godparents of this fir
st child
were my great-great-grandparents Jose Felix Navarro Bandin and his wife Guillerma Franco Gomez, parents of Paula. It seems this first child died as an infant, and I still have to find his death record. I also found the birth record of Maximiano on the 29th of May, 1881, who also seems to have died in infancy, thus I only have references for 13 children, and it is correct that my father and uncles say that references to 5 or 6 others are missing.

I also would like to solve the mystery that at the minimum three of the brothers, Jose, Regino and Antonio Vellegas Navarro left to work and live in the United States in the decade of the 1920s approximately, and since then nothing was known of them, nor where they went to live, nor how many children they had, nor when they died, nothing, absolutely nothing, so far away from their family and the land that gave them birth, and that is another of my anxieties to know what happened to these three uncles, where they lived and died in the United States and if they have descendants so I can contact them. Perhaps you or someone who reads this can tell me how to find out the destiny of these three great-uncles in the United States.

Later I will send the old photos, inherited from my grandmother Mucia Gutierrez Ramirez de Villagas so that they can be seen publicly to see if someone recognizes them and can identify the people in the photos.

You also tell me that you have several books on genealogy. Could you give me the titles of the books you have? I want to tell you that for several months I have been a member of the group and site Genealogia, which initially was dedicated to the genealogy of Northern Mexico, principally Nuevo Leon, but has now been extended to include all the regions. The website is: http://www.genealogia.org.mx and it would be an honor to have you join the discussion forum. God willing you will become a member and we can count on your amiable presence and knowledge. Through this forum I found out that Dr. Don Marinao Gonzalez Leal, great historian and genealogist, which you must know about, now uses the internet and he is subscribed to the group Genealogia Mexico on Yahoo, to which I recently subscribed in order to contact Don Mariano and which I tell you about in case you want to subscribe. The link is the following: http://mx.groups.yahoo.com/group/genmex/

Greetings from Guadalajara; I await your response:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

I have discovered an easier way to search for things on LDS and would like to share.

go to www.familysearch.org

type in a name for example FName: Calixto LName: Alviso (but you may use any name)

change country to Mexico

Click the search button at the bottom

This is important: You should have some files in the "International Genealogical File" or IGI file

Click on any of the files under the IGI file

Scroll down to the batch number and click on the link

Now on the next web page, delete the number in the batch number box, change the state to "Jalisco" and put the last name in you are searching for (only the last name, for example: Alviso or maybe Ledesma, it does not matter what last name) and click on the search button.

This will give you all the Alviso's (or whatever name you put in), maternal or paternal in the state of Jalisco that LDS has in their computer database. However this is not all the records in their holdings, as they only have a small portion of all their microfilms extracted into their database. This is useful in finding relations in Jalisco, but in different towns.

You may also do the same as above but instead of the last name, put the parents first and last name in to find children born to them.

This has saved me a lot of time!!! And given me some great leads.

Hope my instructions are clear, if you have problems, contact me and I will try to clarify.

Linda,

I think there are some services where you can copy and paste what you want translated, and they will have a trained translator do an exact translation in good proper English, but you have to wait for them to get back to you. Some of them also want to charge you for the service.

I don't speak Spanish myself (can't think fast enough on my feet to respond), but I do pretty good in reading it and other languages like French, Italian, Portuguese which are similar. I do need to use the English-Spanish dictionary for the occasional word. You might also e-mail Tomas Alejandro and ask him to send you privately an English translation. I have seen the messages he posted to the genealogy message boards in English, and they were very good, probably better than I can post them in Spanish. (Te das cuenta, Tomas Alejandro?) He apologizes for his English, but he doesn't need to.

He is highly educated, and I notice that like most educated people in Mexico he takes 10 words to say what a less educated person would say in less. Anyway, that is the way it sounds to me. His style is highly formal, as it is amongst most proper users of the Castellan language in Mexico. It is a very flowery language, full of proper introductions, taking leave, compliments, etc. We Americans are very blunt and terse by comparison. I was once told by our Mexican translator at work that we Mexican-Americans were very rude, that we would walk in an exam room and not introduce ourselves, shake hands, or not make small talk to put the patient at ease, etc. Americans don't do that. In Mexico, the various classes are very polite to each other, I think that is the way they keep their distance, by being very formal. I hope I don't get any stink here; it is just my opinion.

I will send a private e-mail to you with my interpretation (not a literal translation) of what Tomas Alejandro said in his e-mail, and it won't be perfect, but it will be an enormous improvement over Babelfish, which I never use due to the substitutions of words that don't make any sense. I am willing to interpret for you anytime you wish. And you are not illiterate, like you said.

Saludos desde Port Orchard, Washington,

Emilie

----- Original Message -----
From: Linda R Romero
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] General Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17

I have tried Babelfish translations and as an example I have come up
with the following translation of the message below. Does anyone
have a better method of translating? This loses me. I'm sure no one
is talking about a tapeworm.

Hello Ricardo: It is an enormous taste that you write to me and
knowledge that we share such I interest, on gelealogia familiar and
our beloved town the Valley of Guadalupe, Jalisco. You say that you
were not born alli like I, cuentame to me where you were born and in
where you live and to that you dedicate yourself at the moment.
Thanks also for genealogiua that you found, apparently are what the
project of arbol commands to i myself to the a genealogico world-
wide, does or like 6 or 7 a?os, that you raises it as if outside a
project outside economico interest and which is going to be available
publicamente, I send to them what tapeworm investigated in that time,
with great ilusion of which in truth it was an open data base
publicamente, but so seems that that is not possible and the
economico interest is always followed, and all those data that
command (and surely asi did it with much but people) now estan in a
private data base and if you want to accede to her you must pay, with
the due respect which little mmmm, take advantage of the good faith
mia and of other people to become rich, I hope that although it is
have the desencia to give to my data like author of the investigation
and envio of those data, you...

Please, a little help for the illiterate.

Linda

I have tried Babelfish translations and as an example I have come up
with the following translation of the message below. Does anyone
have a better method of translating? This loses me. I'm sure no one
is talking about a tapeworm.

Hello Ricardo: It is an enormous taste that you write to me and
knowledge that we share such I interest, on gelealogia familiar and
our beloved town the Valley of Guadalupe, Jalisco. You say that you
were not born alli like I, cuentame to me where you were born and in
where you live and to that you dedicate yourself at the moment.
Thanks also for genealogiua that you found, apparently are what the
project of arbol commands to i myself to the a genealogico world-
wide, does or like 6 or 7 a?os, that you raises it as if outside a
project outside economico interest and which is going to be available
publicamente, I send to them what tapeworm investigated in that time,
with great ilusion of which in truth it was an open data base
publicamente, but so seems that that is not possible and the
economico interest is always followed, and all those data that
command (and surely asi did it with much but people) now estan in a
private data base and if you want to accede to her you must pay, with
the due respect which little mmmm, take advantage of the good faith
mia and of other people to become rich, I hope that although it is
have the desencia to give to my data like author of the investigation
and envio of those data, you...

Please, a little help for the illiterate.

Linda

On Oct 23, 2006, at 5:05 AM, general-
request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 11:50:12 -0500
> From: " Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez "
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Saludos desde Guadalajara
> To: "Rick Rodriguez" ,
> general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Cc: valledegpe@hotmail.com, Webmasters@elvalledeguadalupe.com,
> Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
> Message-ID:
> <50f333d50610220950s183dee5dw6b20e0f6b45e4a30@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hola Ricardo:
>
> Es un gusto enorme que me escribas y saber que compartamos los
> mismos
> intereses, sobre la gelealogia familiar y nuestro querido pueblo el
> Valle de
> Guadalupe,
> Jalisco.
> Me dices que no naciste alli como yo, cuentame donde naciste
> y en
> donde vives
> y a que te dedicas actualmente.
>
> Gracias tambien por la genealogiua que encontraste, al
> parecer es lo
> que
> mande yo mismo al al proyecto del arbol genealogico mundial, hace
> ya como
> 6 o 7 a?os, que te lo plantean como si fuera un proyecto fuera de
> interes
> economico y que va a estar disponible publicamente, yo les mande
> lo que
> tenia
> investigado en ese tiempo, con gran ilusion de que en verdad fuera
> una base
> de datos abierta publicamente, pero tal parece que eso no es posible y
> siempre se sigue el interes economico, y todos esos datos que mande
> (y seguramente asi lo hicieron con mucha mas gente) ahora estan en una
> base de datos privada y si quieres acceder a ella tienes que pagar,
> con el
> debido respeto que poca mmmm, se aprovechan de la buena fe mia y de
> otras

Hola Webmasters:

Felicidades por su pagina elvalledeguadalupe.com, sigan adelante con
su esfuerzo.

Segun lei en su pagina, ustedes son: Anabel Rodriguez de Barba y
Monica Gonzalez Ponce,
no se que edad tengan, y pido disculpas anticipadas por tutearlas.

Antes que nada dejenme `presentarme: soy Tomás Alejandro Villegas
Gómez, naci y
vivo en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, Jalisco, tengo 44 años, soy soltero,
Ingeniero Quimico
egresado de la Universidad de Guadalajara, mis padres son Tomas Villegas
Gutierrez y
Maria Elena Gomez Castellanos.

Mi padre es nacido en el Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco, por eso aunque
yo no naci en
el Valle de Guadalupe, a traves de mi padre me considero tambien
vallelupense y le tengo
un gran cariño a El Valle, por eso me da gusto que existan en internet estas
paginas para
fomentar el amor y cariño a la tierra de mi padre y mis ancestros y otra vez
mil gracias
por el esfuerzo que ustedes hacen por promover este lindo lugar de los
Altos de Jalisco.

Me ha interesado la genealogia (Historia Familiar o Arbol Genealogico)
mucho a partir
de cuando fallecio mi abuelita paterna Mucia Gutierrez Ramírez de Villegas
en Septiembre
de 1985, ya que al abrir la petaquilla donde ella guardaba sus cosas mas
preciadas,
encontramos entre otras cosas un cuadernillo, escrito de puño y letra por mi
abuelo
Francisco Villegas Navarro, en donde cariñosamente anoto desde el
fallecimiento de
su madre Paula Navarro Franco, siu matrimonio, el nacimiento de sus hijos y
la muerte
tambien de algunos de ellos, y al finalizar cada acta, ponia: "dedico este
recuerdo a
mis hijos", y lo firmaba, además encontramos muchas fotos antiguas que
guardaba
tambien mi abuelita, algunas fotos si las reconocieron mis tios, pero otras
no, todabia
estamos con la incognita de quienes seran.

Y aqui una primera peticion: seria posible que publicaran estas fotos
antiguas en
su Web comentando su procedencia y ver si alguna persona del Valle, sobre
todo
las mas viejas, pudieran reconocer esas fotos e identificar a las personas
que aparecen
en las fotos.

Otra sugerencia: que tengan una seccion de genealogia, donde todas las
personas
del Valle, puedan ver a sus ancestros, y ademas contribuir con nuevos datos
o correccion
de datos, ademas de que alli mismo puedan publicarse fotos antiguas de las
familias
y ancestros, ademas como punto de contacto con otras personas interesadas en
la
genealogia particular del Valle de Guadalupe y de los Altos de Jalisco en
General.

Otra sugerencia: Que tambien tengan una seccion en donde publiquen en
formato
Pdf TODOS los Periodicos ya historicos de "El Valle" y no se, que los
numeros
antiguos sean de acceso libre a todo el publico, y los boletines actuales,
digamos
de 2 o 3 años a la fecha, sean accesibles solo pagando una cuota, para asi
no
interferir con los pagos para subscripciones en papel.

Mi padre es el propietario de la Peluqueria del Hotel Fenix aqui en
Guadalajara,
y fue visitado por paisanos del Valle para anunciarse en "El Valle", asi es
que el
anuncio de la Peluqueria de mi padre aparecia casi esde los primeros
numeros
de "El Valle", y recibia en nuestro domicilio el periodico, pero
desgraciadamente
este bonito proyecto se a venido a menos, al parecer los editores del
periodico
eran inicialmente de aqui de Guadalajara, pero por alguna razon ya no
pudieron
hacerlo y lo pasaron a los miembros del Club social en Estados Unidos, desde
entonces ya no recibimos el periodico "El Valle", que se transormo, segun
vi,
de un periodico, en formato grande con varias paginas, a un simple reporte,
casi mimiegrafiado de 1 o 2 paginas tamaño carta, es una lastima que en vez
de evolucionar y crecer, se venga a menos, por cierto que desde hace poco
mas de un año, estube tratando de contactar a alguien para suscribirme y
volver a recibir "El Valle" otra vez en mi domicilio desde Estados Unidos,
creo
que contacte a otra persona por este mismo medio, pero fue muy parco y
nada amable, solo me respondio estas cortas palabras; "haga su deposito",
le respondi que me diera informacion mas amplia de donde y como hacer ese
"deposito", y como recibiria mi copia de "El Valle", pero ya no respondio,
por estas razones "El Valle" a decrecido tanto, y vuelvo con ustedes con la
misma inquietud: Pueden ustedes informarme como puedo recibir en mi
hogar el periodico o boletin del "El Valle", existe alguna persona aqui en
Guadalajara a quien contactar y darle a ella directamente el importe de la
suscripcion, agradecere mucho su ayuda.

Trate de entrar a la paginma del grupo social: www.csvdg.org y me
pide nombre de usuario y contraseña, como puedo obtenerlos.

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

Hola Tomas Alejandro,

A qual proyecto del arbol genealogico mundial mandaste tu genealogia? Fue FamilyTree.com o Ancestry.com o RootswebWorldConnect?

Si mandas tu arbol geneagolico a WorldConnect en formato gedcom, esta disponible publicamente, como los mios para quales te mande los "links". No los has visto? O mandas los aqui a Nuestros Ranchos a la base Gedcom.

Lo que pasa es que casi todos los proyectos ahora estan "sostenidos" por Ancestry.com (MyFamily.com Inc) porque es muy caro mantener esos proyectos como Rootsweb. Ancestry.com compran todo los datos genealogicos que encuentran en el internet y de las librerias genealogias de varias sociedades para poner en sus bases de datos y cobrar. Cuando pido informacion de una sociedad geneagolica, me dicen que van a vender sus datos a Ancestry.com porque necesitan el dinero para sus proyectos y mantener sus librerias [bibliotecas?]. Mis arboles tambien se pueden ver en Ancestry.com en el base "One World Tree" donde uno tiene que tener suscripcion para ese base. Tienen el otro base "Ancestry World Tree" que es disponible publicamente iqual como en RootswebWorldConnect tambien sostenido por Ancestry.com.

Cuando primero saque suscripcion para Ancestry.com tenian solo un base de datos, luego despues separaron ese base entre mas bases y pidieron suscripcion para cada uno. Eso es como tu dices: se aprovechan del interes que tenemos en la genealogia, y la interes de ellos sigue siempre economico, no?

Yo ya no voy a suscribir para mas datos en Ancestry. Estoy pagandoles como doscientos dolares por a~no para los bases de censos, inmigracion, militar, etc. Quieren otros veinte dolares para One World Tree. La libreria local de los Mormones esta cerca de mi, y ellos tienen computers con suscripciones para todos los bases de Ancestry.com. Es como yo note que tenian mis arboles que mande a WorldConnect en el base One World Tree, y si tienen mi nombre como autor. Me dio "anger" [coraje?](aqui me falta el espanol) pero que hago? Me dicen que la informacion esta abierta publicamente en WorldConnect. Me quedo "angry" [enojada?] porque los que no saben que mis arboles estan en WorldConnect, y no hacen una investigacion primero en WorldConnect, pues estan pagando para ver el One World Tree en Ancestry.com. Mientras tenemos este gran interes en nuestros antepasados, Ancestry.com siempre se enriquesan. Haci es la cosa - "supply and demand" - y si se aprovechan mientras pueden.

Saludes desde Port Orchard, Washington

Emilie

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/private.cgi/general-nuestrosranchos.or…

Joseph,
I can help with list items 1-3. I have some familiarity with web stuff,
Drupal, and databases (for putting a master list together).

Ed Davila

----- Original Message ----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:18:30 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Explanation of Volunteer Jobs

Well I asked for three more volunteers truthfully wanted to test the
water to see who might respond. Right now I'm working with three
volunteers on the most important needs I have:

Kitty Cortez (giving periodical notices to new members)
Jose Humberto Suarez Villarreal (evaluating who has submitted
genealogies in the "members genealogies" area)
Alicia Carrillo (Spam Control)

here are some jobs that I can use occassional help with:

1) I could use help with creating folders for new members and adding
their genealogies when they submit them (occasional opportunities). This
might not be possible with a normal account. I'll see.

2) I could use the help of someone making a master list of everyone who
has submitted a gedcom in alphabetical order by their name AND Username
if this is possible.

3) I could use some help of someone working on going through the links
area and checking for dead links AND learning how to add links using the
Drupal system (we'll need a primer with Arturo showing the way on this
one): this one would be called: Link Master

4) I could use some help translating various passages. I've leaned
heavily on John Gonzalez and Arturo but I hate asking them all the time.
Others that feel comfortable translating occasional passages would be
helpful.

thanks,

joseph

Things continue to be busy. This group is like a democracy. . .of the
people, by the people and for the people.

As I get busier and busier I see less time for me to function properly
within the group. I'm not planning on going anywhere, but since we are
one big happy family we as a family need to start taking on some more of
the groups responsibilities.

Therefore I have the need to make a call for 3 more volunteers. What I
need done are small but important jobs.

Step right up if a few of us take on some of these small jobs then the
burden will be easier for us all.

thanks,

joseph

ps: I apologize for sending this out on the research list, but not
everyone is subscribed to the "general" list and I wanted to get this
out to as many as possible.

Well I asked for three more volunteers truthfully wanted to test the
water to see who might respond. Right now I'm working with three
volunteers on the most important needs I have:

Kitty Cortez (giving periodical notices to new members)
Jose Humberto Suarez Villarreal (evaluating who has submitted
genealogies in the "members genealogies" area)
Alicia Carrillo (Spam Control)

here are some jobs that I can use occassional help with:

1) I could use help with creating folders for new members and adding
their genealogies when they submit them (occasional opportunities). This
might not be possible with a normal account. I'll see.

2) I could use the help of someone making a master list of everyone who
has submitted a gedcom in alphabetical order by their name AND Username
if this is possible.

3) I could use some help of someone working on going through the links
area and checking for dead links AND learning how to add links using the
Drupal system (we'll need a primer with Arturo showing the way on this
one): this one would be called: Link Master

4) I could use some help translating various passages. I've leaned
heavily on John Gonzalez and Arturo but I hate asking them all the time.
Others that feel comfortable translating occasional passages would be
helpful.

thanks,

joseph

2006/10/16, Tomás Alejandro Villegas Gómez :
>
>
>
> Hola Roque:
>
> A mi me interesa una copia del libro, estoy en
> la ciudad de Guadalajara, Jalisco, como podrias
> mandarmela.
>
> Espero tu respuesta, Saludos:
>
> Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.
>
>
> Tengo en mi poder el libro de Andres de Quintana Y Fernandez Somellera
> sobre
> las Casas de Horcasitas y Quintana, si alguno de ustedes tiene interes en
> tener una copia haganme saber a donde se los podria enviar.
>
> Atentamente
>
> Roque Macouzet Palomar
>
>
>
>
>

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

(espanol abajo)

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Thank you for your cooperation. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding this matter.

ESPANOL

Para proteger la privacidad de los miembros y para asegurar que el sitio no sea rastreado por programas que ''cosechan'' direcciones de correo-e (rastrean la red buscando direcciones de correo-e para luego enviarles correo-e no deseado o ''spam''), por favor no incluya informacion personal de si mismo ni de otros miembros en sus mensajes. Cualquier mensaje que se sumete a cualquiera de las listas queda publicado en el sitio en la red y queda disponible al publico general y a programas que cosechan direcciones de correo-e. Informacion personal que no debe incluirse en mensajes incluye direcciones de correo-e, numeros de telefono o informacion viatica (tal como fechas de nacimiento, nombre de padres, etc.) de personas vivas.

Si necesitas ponerte en contacto con un miembro directamente, puedes usar el directorio de membresia que queda disponible en http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/profile o hacer click en en apodo (user name) de un miembro que queda debajo de cualquiera de sus contribuciones y usar la forma de contacto para enviarle un mensaje personal.

Gracias por su cooperacion. Por favor dejenme saber si tienen alguna pregunta sobre este tema.

Hola Sr. John:

Gusto en poder escribirle y le doy las gracias por toda la ayuda
que nos da a nosotros los genealogistas aficionados, compartiendo
todo su conocimiento con nosotros, en verdad usted es la idea de
lo que yo pienso debe ser un genealogista y persona, gracias
otra vez por toda su ayuda.

Aprovecho este foro para preguntarle en este caso en particular
si me pudiera mencionar su fuente, de donde saco los datos para
saber que Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo, que se establecio en
Jalostotitlan casado con Maria Muñoz, es hijo de Juan Gonzalez
de Hermosillo (y este a su vez de Diego Gavilan) y de Ana
Rodriguez de la Magdalena.

Ya que durante muchos años yo tenia solamente hasta Juan
Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Maria Muñoz, lo saque del libro de
Don Mariano Gonzalez Leal, y al parecer cuando el publico el
libro de Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia en el año de
1982, tambien hasta alli tenia documentacion fiel de estos
ancestros, pero sobre los padres y asendencia de este personaje
solo tenia hipotesis o teorias pero no tenia la documentacion
necesaria para afirmar que los padres eran Juan y Ana, por esto
le pido por este medio nos mencione la fuente o documento
de los que se develo ela verdadera filiacion de los Padres de
Don Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo, y de su abuelo Diego Galvan
(por cierto no tendra el dato sobre la esposa de Diego).

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

Hello everyone! Sorry, I don´t know Jonathan´s complete e-mail address

Hi Jonathan! some weeks ago I asked your help for finding some marriages from Arandas, Jalisco.

Did you find any? Thanks in advance.

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!? La mejor conexión a Internet y 2GB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx

Hola a Todos:

Un Llamado o consejo a las personas que han publicado o piensan
publicar algun libro, en especial sobre los que son de nuestro interes
que es la Historia y la Genealogia.

Y sea este llamado para escritores o investigadores tanto nacionales
como internacionales.

Segun mi punto de vista, cuando alguien publica un libro o reporte,
su interes u objetivo principal deberia ser que esta publicacion sea
leida y llegue al mayor numero de personas posibles, y como segundo
objetivo (pero tambien muy importante) es ganar dinero y reconocimiento,
que es muy valido tambien, pero como dije, el principal es que su obra
sea leida por el mayor numero de opersonas posible.

Una de las formas de hacer posible ese principal objetivo, es DONAR
o REGALAR una copia del libro o investigacion a alguna o algunas
bibliotecas o archivos, en el caso particular de las investigaciones
genealogicas e historicas, seria ir de lo general a lo particular, es
decir, yo les sugiero a los escritores, que REgalen una copia de su
libro o trabajo, 1o.- A la Biblioteca del Congreso de los Estados
Unidos de Norte America (Que segun he leido, es la biblioteca
mas importante del mundo, por el numero de libros que tiene en su
acervo en TODOS los IDIOMAS).
2o.- A la biblioteca mas importante sobre genealogia en el mundo,
que seria la biblioteca central en Salt Lake City, Utha, Estados Unidos.
3o.- Al Archivo General de la Nacion en la Ciudad de Mexico, D.F.
que teoricamente resguarda a la mayor cantidad de Archivos y libros
en nuestro pais y tal vez otra copia donde se encuentra el Centro
de Distribucion de Microfilmes de la Ciudad de Mexico, D.F., de los
Centros de Historia Familiar de los Mormones.
4o.- A la biblioteca o Archivo mas importante del Estado donde se
relaciona la investigacion o libro, en mi caso particular seria a la
Biblioteca Publica del Estado de Jalisco y al Archivo Historico de
Jalisco y otra copia a algun Centro de Historia Familiar en la Ciudad
de Guadalajara, Jal. (No se cual sea el mas impotante, de los 4 o
5 Centros que hay, pero de ser posible regalar una capia a cada uno).
5o.- A la biblioteca o Archivo particular de la Investigacion si es que
estan interesados en tener copia, por ejemplo, El archivo Historico de
concentracion del Arzobispado e Guadalajara, El Archivo Municipal
donde se investiga, ya sea Guadalajara, Tepa, Jalos, Ocotlan, sea
Municipal o Eclesiastico, etc.

Tambien es muy importante, como ya lo habia dicho en alguna
ocasion anterior, que se aproveche la tecnologia actual de internet,
y se convierta a digital el libro o reporte, de preferencia en el formato
universal PDF (Portable Document Format de Adobe) y asi no
esperar recursos monetarios o de financiamiento para poder publicar
la obra en papel, y que se comercialize el libro en formato digital
por internet, mandando el libro en ese formato por correo electronico,
en el caso particular de las investigaciones genealogicas, exhorto a
los investigadores que publiquen aunque sea parcialmente sus
investigaciones por este medio y formato, con la promesa o
certificacion que se actualizara el archivo, conforme se vaya actualizando
o corrigiendo, y asi no esperar años y años para que se de a la luz
una obra genealogica, es fabuloso no tener que esperar años por
financiamiento de alguna editorial para publicar el libro, sino solo
hacerlo en formato digital PDF y asi venderlo y distribuirlo por
internet sin casi ningun costo.

Por todo lo anterior, exhorto en lo particular a el Dr. Don Mariano
Gonzalez Leal, a la Investigadora Cecilia Aguilar Camargo de Hino,
al Investigador Ing. Alfonso Rodriguez, al Prof. Salvador Escobedo,
al Lic. Pedro Franco Lopez, para que publiquen sus investigaciones
en formato digital, y lo distribuyan por internet, pudiendo ser
intermediario el Site de Genealogia Mexico, de nuestro grupo
para su distribucion.

Tambien hago el mismo exhorto al Dr. Carlos Barba Gomez
para la distribucion de su trabajo por internet, pero a la vez
darle las gracias por donar una copia de su investigacion en
papel a la biblioteca de la Estaca Union de esta ciudad de
Guadalajara, Jalisco.

Un saludo a todos y espero sus comentarios, o mejor
ahun, ESPERO YA, LA PUBLICACION PARCIAL DE SUS
TRABAJOS en Pdf y por internet.

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

Hi everyone,
I just sent two files to Joseph to upload and the files are under my name. The names of the files are Martin Del Campo 0906.doc and Jose Vallejo Jimenez. The information is for Jalostotitlan, Jalisco and various surrounding areas.

Acabo de mandar dos archivos de genealogia que se pueden encontrar bajo me nombre. Los nombres de los archivos son Martin Del Campo 0906.doc y Jose Vallejo Jimenez. La informacion es de Jalostotitlan y pueblos sercanos.

Enjoy and please let me know if you find any discrepancies!

Maria Elena Gutierrez-Uhlenburg

Thanks for confirming Arturo. The dispensa for Manuel Sanchez de Porras
and Apolonia Martin del Campo is for Sebastiana Apolonia's parents. I have a
copy of that document. I suspect that Sebastiana Apolonia and Juan Ygnacio
are related through the Martin del Campo family line, but I am not 100%
certain. I was hoping to find a dispensa for them too. Thanks for
checking.

Maria

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: arturoramos
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan Ygnacio Martin del Campo
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> www.nuestrosranchos.org&nid=15131&pid=0&cid=10610&uid=9&tid=2&amp;94ba580725a8671a14a73ba66c925142@www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Maria:
>
> I think Mickey is right... there is an entry for an Ignacio Martin del
> Campo, but it is marrying a Margarita Gomez Hurtado in Jalostotitlan in
> 1748.
>
> There is a dispensation in 1718 for a Manuel Sanchez de Porras 20 years
> old with Apolonia Martin del Campo 16 years old... p. 140, Expediente 759.
>
>

Hola Tomas,

Te queria comentar acerca del foro de genealogia de Mexico:
http://mx.groups.yahoo.com/group/genmex/

Este foro no esta concentrado en ningun estado Mexicano en particular, pero
si tiene por miembros a Luz Montejano Hilton y a Don Mariano Gonzalez-Leal.
Varios miembros han preguntado a Don Mariano acerca de sus libros por este
medio y ha dicho que seran publicados para el proximo año pero no dice el
precio.

Al igual que tu, mis ancestros eran de Los Altos de Jalisco: Ixtlahuacan
del Rio, San Nicolas de los Abundis, Cuquio, Yahualica, Jalostotitlan, y
muchos ranchos y haciendas cerca de estas parroquias. Por esta razon los
libros de Don Mariano son esenciales para mis estudios.

Saludos desde Sacramento, CA

Maria Cortez

---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez
> Date: 14-oct-2006 19:48
> Subject: Re: [Genealogia.org.mx] 7010 GUTIERREZ DE MENDOZA
> To: Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
>
> Que bueno que contestaste Eddy:
>
> Pues Don Mariano Gonzalez es una eminencia en la genealogia de
> los Altos, pero no es infalible, tal ves se equivoque, te dio los datos
> de donde saco esa informacion, no sabes si ya usa el internet, porque
> cuando yo lo conoci en el 2000, le pedia su correo electronico y me
> dijpo que el no usaba el internet, pero que trataria de hacerlo, ya
> pasaron 6 a?os, ojala y ya use el internet.
>
> Platicame como te fue con el, que informacion te dio, platicame
> todo sobre tu experiencia con el Dr. Mariano Gonzalez Leal.
>
> Ya leistes lo que mande sobre uconsejo a los que publican libros,
> tu que opinas a ese respecto.
>
> Saludos desde Guadalajara:
>
>
> Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.
>
>
> El d?a 14/10/06, eddy gutierrez hermosillo
> escribi?:
> >
> > SALUDOS A TODOS SUB-GRUPO DEL CENTRO:
> >
> > SALUDOS TOMAS DISCULAPA TOMAS POR NO CONTESTARTE RAPIDO?HASTA HOY
> CHEQUE
> > MI CORREO; RESPECTO A LO QUE ME COMENTAS, ESTOS DATOS ME LOS PROPORCIONO
> EL
> > SE?OR MARIANO GONZALEZ LEAL, DATOS QUE PUBLICARA EN EL 2007 CON LA
> REEDICION
> > DE SUS LIBRO.
> >
> > *Atte:* *Eddy Gtz. H.*
>

Thank you Arturo, Joseph and List Members for adding your comments to my
question about surname spelling variations and of the names used by our
"indigenous," ancestors.
Pat Silva Corbera

Hello,

I have a lookup request for anyone who has Luz Montejano Hilton's book of marriage dispensations.

I want to know if Juan Ygnacio Martin del Campo m. Sebastiana Apolonia Sanchez de Porras on 25 Feb 1754 in San Felipe, Cuquio, Jalisco received a marriage dispensation?

Thanks in advance,

Maria Cortez

I just wanted to express to the whole group what a great time I had in Salt Lake City this past weekend. More than the conference itself, getting to meet Mickey, Josie, Lydia and Ulla and getting to see Kitty and Rich again made the trip a great experience.

I think we all learned quite a bit, and while I didn't get too much research in, I did find a couple of treasures that I will share shortly with the group. We also got to do a lot of networking and promotion of our group. I am hoping we get a few more serious genealogists joining in the next couple of weeks. I met a few people with roots in our area who already have very large genealogies compiled that they are willing to share.

Joseph, I am sorry, but none of us could get the equipment necessary to record George Ryskamp. He actually asked why we were not recording him so he was more than amenable to it. I am sure there will be other opportunities to record his presentation. He and Peggy send you greetings.

Hello
Ref to Sanchez-Porras.....I did not find this in the book of Luz's.

I do not think I missed it...it just did not come up....hope someone else
will double check..

Mickey

Tomas Alejandro,

(perdon mi espanol) Estoy de acuerdo con tu consejo de que "informacion sea leida y llegue al moayor numero de personas posibles". Por eso paso mi informacion genealogica al grupo Nuestros Ranchos y Rootsweb.WorldConnect.com gratis para "dar la luz" en ves de esperar anos y a~nos, etc. Asi encuentro otros con los mismos antepasados para "share" (compartir?) informacion. Para los que es mas importante vender esa informacion, la idea de pasarla por formato PDF es muy buen idea. Yo compro muchos articulos en ese formato que venden en sitios de los revistas de antropologia (mi interes es en la historia de mis antepasados indigenos de los tribus Pueblo de el estado de Nuevo Mexico (Piro-Manso-Tewa) y de los tribus de California (los Chumash).

Saludos de Port Orchard, Washington (estado) Estados Unidos

Emilie Garcia

Arturo,
Is Saucedo, a spelling variation for Salsedo/Salcedo/Salzedo?
I would be interested in reading what you have on the names that the
"indigenous," individuals used, absent of a surname...
On one of the lines that I am researching I have come across a Maria De La
Candelaria Salzedo Santa Maria bapt. Feb 1736 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman,
daughter of Joseph De Santa Maria y Juana Salzedo. Joseph's father is
mentioned as a Diego Thomas, married to Francisca Thomasa Santa Maria on 17
June 1710. Diego's parents are noted as being Juan Francisco y Ana
Agustina ... would this be an example of the naming practice of our
"indigenous," ancestors? Is Santa Maria considered a surname?
Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: research Digest, Vol 9, Issue 10

> Send research mailing list submissions to
> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
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>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of research digest..."
>
>
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. ARCHIVO HIST?RICO DE AGUASCALIENTES (felipe reyes)
> 2. Maternal Surnames (arturoramos)
> 3. Re: Maternal Surnames (erniealderete@charter.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:02:06 +0000
> From: "felipe reyes"
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] ARCHIVO HIST?RICO DE AGUASCALIENTES
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dear Alice:
> EL ARCHIVO HIST?RICO DE AGUASCALIENTES concentra documentaci?n e
> informaci?n
> desde el a?o de 1592 hasta 1930, y est? dividido en fondos, series y
> secciones. Aproximadamente un 70% se encuentra clasificado, todo est?
> inventariado.
> Sus fondos m?s importantes son: 1) PROTOCOLOS NOTARIALES (1592-1925),
> tratando asuntos como testamentar?as, sucesiones, escrituraciones de
> propiedad, contratos civiles y privados, fundaciones de pueblos ind?genas
> y
> padrones de poblaci?n.- 2) Ramo Judicial, asuntos civiles y penales (a
> partir del a?o de 1654); 3) COFRAD?AS (1790-1857); 4) ARCHIVOS DE
> PARROQUIAS DEL ESTADO, PRINCIPALMENTE LIBROS DE REGISTROS SACRAMENTALES.
> El
> archivo cuenta, adem?s con una HEMEROTECA HIST?RICA (1842 - a la fecha) y
> una colecci?n de 3700 fotograf?as (1850-1940). Domicilio: Juan de
> Montoro,
> 215. Colonia Centro. CP 20000. Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes. Tel?fono
> 014409153946
> Felipe Reyes Romo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Platica con tus amigos en linea con MSN Messenger
> http://messenger.t1msn.com.mx/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: arturoramos
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maternal Surnames
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> I have found in my research several lineages where the maternal names
> survived for up to three generations. In some cases it was because the
> father did not have a surname (i.e. was indigenous) and thus the maternal
> one was given to the child by default. In such cases, the husband
> sometimes appears with his wife's name as well.
>
> Iin other cases it appears to be that the maternal side had the land and
> prestige and was perhaps lacking of male heirs so the children took on the
> mother's name in order to propagate that name.
>
> Then there is a peculiar tradition of naming women after grandmothers
> whereby they are given the entire name so if the grandmother was named
> Maria Saucedo, the mother was named Ana Ortiz and the father Lorenzo
> Miramontes, the daugher would be named not Maria Miramontes and not even
> Maria Ortiz, but Maria Saucedo just like her grandmother, thus she would
> carry her mother's mother's maiden name.
>
> The term maiden name in Latin America is somewhat redundant because women
> don't really change their names, thus they have a name in their maiden
> lives that remains their name in their married lives. In modern times the
> practice of attaching a "de" husdband's name after their own has become
> commonplace, but that is not considered the woman's name.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:06:58 -0700
> From:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maternal Surnames
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Cc: arturoramos
> Message-ID: <1756732612.1160510818689.JavaMail.root@fepweb05>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On my mother's side I am the fourth generation to use the maternal suname.
>
> Because my great grandfather was the product of rape.
>
> Since 1858 our family has been proud to bear the name of the 14 year-old
> victim of that rape, Maria de las Nieves Porras.
>
> I'm told there maybe a picture of her somewhere, but I haven't found it.
> I did find that she was baptized in 1858 at the same time as her son.
> I found her grave, and could at least leave her flowers. She is buried
> with her son.
>
> Although the rapist later loved his son and legitimized his parentage
> legally, my ggrandfather chose not to bear the name Gallardo.
>
>
> ---- arturoramos wrote:
>>
>> I have found in my research several lineages where the maternal names
>> survived for up to three generations. In some cases it was because the
>> father did not have a surname (i.e. was indigenous) and thus the maternal
>> one was given to the child by default. In such cases, the husband
>> sometimes appears with his wife's name as well.
>>
>> Iin other cases it appears to be that the maternal side had the land and
>> prestige and was perhaps lacking of male heirs so the children took on
>> the mother's name in order to propagate that name.
>>
>> Then there is a peculiar tradition of naming women after grandmothers
>> whereby they are given the entire name so if the grandmother was named
>> Maria Saucedo, the mother was named Ana Ortiz and the father Lorenzo
>> Miramontes, the daugher would be named not Maria Miramontes and not even
>> Maria Ortiz, but Maria Saucedo just like her grandmother, thus she would
>> carry her mother's mother's maiden name.
>>
>> The term maiden name in Latin America is somewhat redundant because women
>> don't really change their names, thus they have a name in their maiden
>> lives that remains their name in their married lives. In modern times
>> the practice of attaching a "de" husdband's name after their own has
>> become commonplace, but that is not considered the woman's name.

Saludos a todos los del Grupo:

Mensaje especial para los de la zona norte:

Ahora que estoy hablando con Eddy sobre
el Dr. en Derecho, Notario No. 1 de la ciudad de
Leon, Guanajuato, gran erudito sobre la genealogia
de los Altos de Jalisco, Don Mariano Gonzalez Leal,
en su libro lei, que los De la Garza, llegaron de
españa a la Cd. de Mexico, de alli fueron a vivir
a no recuerdo si el norte o los Altos de Jalisco y
posteriormente pasaron a establecerse al norte
del pais, principalmente a Nuevo Leon, donde
son de las principales familias, como dije eso lo
lei en el libro de Don Mariano Gonzalez Leal, no
se si los estudiosos de este Apellido, esten de
acuerdo con lo dicho por Don Mariano.

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez