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Certificion de Defuncion

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What is the best way to obtain a Death Certicate from Mexico? My father, Enedino Gomez Lizarrga, died 14 Sep 1992 in Octlan,Jalisco,Mexico.

Thank you.

Paul Gomez

Extraction Mistakes / Errores de Extraccion

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

I hope none of you are taking the information in the IGI as being 100% credible.

Comments

Extraction Mistakes / Errores de Extraccion

Comment

Sometimes what looks like a mistake wasn't. I found out that what I thought originally was a mistake on a great great grandparent was not a mistake and that he often used his paternal grandmothers last name.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:52:46
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Extraction Mistakes / Errores de Extraccion

I hope none of you are taking the information in the IGI as being 100% credible. Although the information that was extracted and placed in the IGI is mostly correct there are often errors that were made by the extractors. Common mistakes are in the spelling of the names and surnames. Occasionally, the surname of the mother is used instead of that of the father; even though the original record has the father listed. On one occasion I found that the names of the paternal grandparents were put as the name of the parents, skipping the parents altogether. What I am trying to say is, you need to look at the original record to be sure that the information that was extracted is correct. Another good reason to look at the original is because it could yield additional information.

Espero que ninguno de ustedes está tomando la información en el IGI como 100% correcta. Aunque la información que se extrae y se coloca en el IGI es correcta en su mayoría, a menudo hay errores que fueron hechos por los extractores. Errores comunes en la ortografía de los nombres y apellidos. En ocasiones, el apellido de la madre se utiliza en lugar de la del padre, a pesar de que en el registro original el padre esta listado. En una ocasión me encontré con que los nombres de los abuelos paternos fueron puestos como los nombred de los padres, los padres se pasaron por completo. Bueno, lo que estoy tratando de decir es que, se tiene que ver el registro original para asegurarse de que la información que se extrajo es correcta. Otra buena razón para mirar el original se debe a que podría proporcionar información adicional.

Saludos desde Lago Salado (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Eduardo H Seoane
EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo from Jalostotitlanm MX

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hello there , My name Is Gerry casillas from Downey Ca. i am researching my mothers side of the the Family. Her maiden name is Enriquez.

Comments

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

My mothers maiden name is Elvira Enriquez. her mother is Maria Luisa Gutierrez Enriquez was born in Los Portales Jalos, Jalisco in Aug 6,1912. She Married Jesus Enriquez born in Valle de Gudalupe, MX in Aug8th 1912.

My Grandmother Maria Luisa's parents are Juan Gutierrez and Ignacia Romo- Very little information on them but also from Jalostotitlan

My Grandfather Jesus Enriquez Parents were Felipe Enriquez and maria Antonia Romo born in or abt 18901890.

Any information you can help me with would be appreciated.

Gerry Casillas

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

Gerry:

As Armando mentions, names without dates or place names are not very useful in genealogy. Please provide the group dates, even if they are approximate and place names, even if they are only suspected. Many leads and certainly useful sources of information are location-specific and others who may be researching the same towns where your grandparents were from can guide you even if they are not related to you.

Good luck.

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

Any birth and marriage dates that you can give us will be very helpful. Also names and dates of brothers and sisters of your grandparents and greatgrandparents. Have you done any searching at the following website? http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home

Armando

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

My Grandmother Maria Luisa's parents are Juan Gutierrez and Ignacia Romo- Very little information on them but also from Jalostotitlan

My Grandfather Jesus Enriquez Parents were Felipe Enriquez and maria Antonia Romo born in or abt 18901890.

Any information you can help me with would be appreciated.

Gerry Casillas
Gerry Casillas

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

You are in luck. The romo and gutierrez from portales intermarried frequently. It should be easy to find the info through a marriage dispensation. You would only have to go a couple of generations since I have the rest of the romo and gutierrez ancestors. My great grandfather was eligio romo gutierrez from portales.
------Original Message------
From: gerrycasillas@verizon.net
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo
Sent: Apr 29, 2010 9:54 AM

My Grandmother Maria Luisa's parents are Juan Gutierrez and Ignacia Romo- Very little information on them but also from Jalostotitlan

My Grandfather Jesus Enriquez Parents were Felipe Enriquez and maria Antonia Romo born in or abt 18901890.

Any information you can help me with would be appreciated.

Gerry Casillas

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

Find maria luisa gutierrez's birth and baptismal records. They will list the grandparents in jalos or san miguel. Many of these romo and gutierrez were baptized in san miguel el alto. Let me know what you find and I will connect it to the romos and gutierrez in my family.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:27:41
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

My Grandmother Maria Luisa's parents are Juan Gutierrez and Ignacia Romo- Very little information on them but also from Jalostotitlan

My Grandfather Jesus Enriquez Parents were Felipe Enriquez and maria Antonia Romo born in or abt 18901890.

Any information you can help me with would be appreciated.

Gerry Casillas

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

Small mistake. My great grandfather was emeterio romo gutierrez. His father was eligio romo jimenez. Many of eligio's first cousins, siblings, children, and grandchildren married Gutierrez and your family is most likely from this group. There was one other romo family that arrived in this area that had originally been from encarnacion de diaz, and just before that, from teocaltiche and nochistlan zacatecas. They also intermarried with this first romo family and the gutierrez. There is so much intermarriage from this group that some prominent genealogist have made slight mistakes in reading marriage dispensations, or maybe some grooms and brides were so related that they got confused in stating their relationship (found this once) that they think there is only one Romo line here and are not aware of or ignore the second line.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

Comment

Eligio married his second cousin francisca gutierrez gonzalez (santo toribio's great aunt) francisca's father was gutierrez romo.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:53:40
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Enriquez, Gutierrez, Romo

New Research- Rodriguez family

Forums

Genealogy Research

I am new to this site, and am so excited to become a part of it! I have been researching my family history since December 2008.

Comments

New Resech - Rodriguez Family

Comment

Donna Murphy

SSDI (Social Security Death Index) shows a Joe Rodriguez born Sept 2, 1888, died Sept 1979, last residence was Garden City, Finney, Kansas. If this is the right person, you can write for a copy of his Social Security application. The charge is $27 if you have the Social Security number (which is on the website - ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com). Once you find his name, click on the "SS-5 letter" next to the name and it will create a letter with everything filled in, you just need to print it and send in the money. I've had a couple done and it takes 4-8 weeks.

Social Security numbers were issued to citizens AND non citizens - you needed a number in order to get a job.

New Research- Rodriguez family

Comment

Have you looked for their border crossings into the United States? There might be information as to the last place of residence, which might indicate the locality where they were married and or had children. The record should indicate age, place of birth, traveling companions, who they are to going to meet in the USA and, where they are traveling too, etc. You might want to look if you have not done so previously. He might have military records for World War One (don't discard that possibility). The 1920 census should indicate when they entered the United States for the first time; look for the border crossing in the indicated year as well as other crossings.

Good luck!

Saludos desde Lago Salado (Salt Lake City, UT)
Eduardo H Seoane
EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com

New Research- Rodriguez family

Comment

I forgot Labs is offline right now, Salt Lake is updating new records,Version 2.0 will be released sometime this week.
Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jessgallardo@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:02:43 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Research- Rodriguez family
>
> I am new to this site, and am so excited to become a part of it! I have been researching my family history since December 2008. I have completed alot on my side of the family, but have come to a brick wall in researching my husbands family.
>
> Jose R Rodriguez was born September 2, 1888. my research up to now states that he was born in Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico. I do not know who his parents were. In 1912, he married Maria Luna b. May 10, 1891 in Mexico. They immigrated to the US between 1912 and 1920, as they are on the 1920 Census in Kansas. Jose died on September 17, 1979 in Deerfield, Kansas. Maria died November 17, 1956 in Lakin, Kansas.
>
> This is all the info i have at the moment. Can't wait to dig deeper into the research and hopefully one day i can visit these beautiful places!

New Research- Rodriguez family

Comment

Welcome Jesse, this is good, one of my areas of expertise is Calvillo.You might want to look for your ancestor's baptismal record you can goto www.familysearchlabs.org
I'm also related to the Gallardo family, there is so much history. The SpanishGallardo were important in the history of Aguascalientes and nearby statesof Jalisco and Guanajuato, the average alteno will at least have one connectionto the Gallardo.
Daniel Mendez Camino

Research Digest, Vol 51, Issue 25

Forums

Genealogy Research

Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe the indians weren't "uprising"
when they killed your great-grandfathers.

Comments

Research Digest, Vol 51, Issue 25

Comment

point well taken! I was told that Indian raids on small ranchos were not unusual in that time period. I'm sure there were always two sides to any story, a shame we don't have the details and only the results. I did notice when I was in Jerez in 2003 the Yndios were invisible people who the locals seemed to look through. They dressed differently, spoke their own language and lived in their own town, I did not ask where that was, wish I had. I do have photos of the Jerez Yndios in the album section taken on that trip.

Linda in Marietta, Ga

________________________________
From: "Miramontes, Daniel R"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, April 27, 2010 7:51:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 51, Issue 25

Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe the indians weren't "uprising"
when they killed your great-grandfathers. Maybe the indians were just
defending themselves against an uprising and they were killed as a
result of it.

Research Digest, Vol 51, Issue 25

Comment

I went to Zacatecas as well a couple of years ago on vacation to visit from where my family on my fathers side comes from. That was the best thing I could have done. Not only for the pictures and memories but for the contacts I still have with a number of churches, Teul, Tepechitlan, Tlaltenango, Atolinga and Momax. I drove thru Jerez but have not found any one in my family that far north in Zacatecas. I've been able to find pretty far back thru the LDS microfilm and scan/mail to the churches and get a certificate back. They are more than helpful if you are nice and patient with them and don't request too much too soon.

Daniel

Genealogy Tree

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

I'm looking for Flores Alatorre, Hernandez, Renteria, Romero out of Jalpa, Zacatecas.

Comments

Jalpa, Zac

Comment

Searching for my father's family in Jalpa. Surnames: Macias, Tostado, Luna, Alvarado and Marin. Thanks!

Jalpa, Zac

Comment

Hi there oh mysterious one ,

My name is Welester G. Alvarado and I am trying to connect my Alvarados' backwards from Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon to Zacatecas , Jalisco or Aguascaliente . If you have any of yours going north to Coahuila or maybe even to Nuevo Leon that would be great .

My Great great Grandfather was Candelario Alvarado he married twice that I know of in Villa de Santiago . Once in 1833 to a Maria Concepcion Garcia and then 10 yrs. latere to my Great great Grandmother Maria Quirina Saldivar Gomez in the year 1844 .

The RUTA DE PLATA was used on a regular bases during the early years by all the miners , maybe one of your Alvarados' is one of mine , I hope , I hope , I hope !

Thanx for listening ,
Welester

> > Searching for my father's family in Jalpa. Surnames: Macias, Tostado, Luna, Alvarado and Marin. Thanks!
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Jalpa, Zac

Comment

Hola Amelia,I'm a newbie at this Genealogical deal, but I have enough interest to learn and to persist. I recognize that the Macías line from which you descend is from a different location than mine. However I think that in the end we must all be related, it's just a matter of how far back we want to dig. In our favor we have a common surname which means that we have a good chance of tracing common ancestors. From the description below, there are many unkowns, but this is all I have for now. I hope to get more info soon. If you don't recognize anyone, at the very least I would appreciate if you could share some of your investigation on the Macías surname as I am sure that once I gather all the bits and pieces from several families, it will just be a matter of putting them together and hopefully find my place somewhere. Please read below for a brief description of my family line.Thanks,Jose

Descendants of Macias in Jalisco,
México

Generation No. 1

1. ¿? Macías was born around 1886
in Tenamaxtlán Jalisco. He married my GG Grandmother ?? Lucas probably around
1900-1906. She was probably born sometime around 1886.

Children of ¿? MACIAS (GG
Grandfather) and ¿? LUCAS (GG Grandmother) are:

i. Francisco Macias Lucas b. Abt 8 Sep
1909, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México, d.

Unkown

ii. Basilio Macias Lucas b. Abt
1902-1916, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México, d.

Unknown

Notes: Given names of my GG
grandparents are unknown. It is uncertain if they had more children (most
likely they did, as is usually the case with these “Breeding Stallions” –
Abuelo el Sementa!). Based on the verbal accounts of family members, it is possible
that one of my GG grandparents had another son named Agustin which is a half
brother of the 2 previously mentioned brothers (Francisco and Basilio). Unfortunately my current information only stems from the children of my Grandparents (Francisco Macías Lucas). I don't know if Basilio has children or if he had siblings, or if these siblings had more children.

Generation No. 2

2. Great Grandfather Francisco
Macias Lucas (b. Abt 8 Sep 1909, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México, d. Abt unknown).
He maried Maria Gomez Sanchez (b. 3 Aug 1908) in San Luis Potosí México. The
month and day form the birth dates of my Grand Parents are accurate, but the
birth year is an approximation. From the accounts of my grand parents I know
that my Great Grandfather married when he was 16 years of age, and my Great
Grandmother at 15. Yup, they were young, so what!? And you know what else?
Apparently there was no money for TV and the tractor was probably broken down
leaving them with ample time to propagate (8 children!).

Children of my G Grandfather
Francisco Macías Lucas and my G Grandmother María Gomez Sanchez.

i. Ramon
Macias Gomez b. 25 Aug 1925, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México, d. Abt

1988, San Luis Potosí, San Luis Potosí,
México

ii.
Agustina Macias Gomez b. Abt 1925-1939, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México

iii.
Lucia Macias Gomez b. Abt 1925-1939, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México

iv. Juana
Macias Gomez b. Abt 1925-1939, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México, d.

Abt 1995

v.
Sirenia Macias Gomez b. Abt 1925-1939, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México

vi. Leocadia
Macias Gomez b. Abt 1925-1939, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México

viii. Felícitas
Macias Gomez b. Abt 1925-1939, Tenamaxltán, Jalisco, México

ix.
Roberto Macias Gomez b. Abt 1925-1939, d. Abt 2006, San Luis Potosi,

San Luis Potosí, México

Notes: I will have more information on names and dates
shortly.

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: shizuechan@earthlink.net
> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:01:06 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jalpa, Zac
>
>
> Searching for my father's family in Jalpa. Surnames: Macias, Tostado, Luna, Alvarado and Marin. Thanks!

Macias surname

Comment

I'm new to this site and your posting caught my attention. My grandfather's name was Francisco Macias and he was born on October 4, 1886. I cannot verify, but I was told he was born in Zacatecas, Mexico. He is the son of Gerardo or Eduardo Macias and his mother's name was Eusebia Mendoza. My grandfather, Francisco, married Consuelo Vallejo of Allende, Coahuila, Mexico. Sometime in the 1900's they settled in Texas.

I am interested in learning more about the Macias surname. I hope we find common
pieces.

Norma Partida

Macias surname

Comment

Hi,

Where in Texas did your grandparents settle.

Paula

----- Original Message ----
> From: "partida86@msn.com"
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 9:21:39 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Macias surname
>
> I'm new to this site and your posting caught my attention. My
> grandfather's name was Francisco Macias and he was born on October 4, 1886. I
> cannot verify, but I was told he was born in Zacatecas, Mexico. He is the
> son of Gerardo or Eduardo Macias and his mother's name was Eusebia
> Mendoza. My grandfather, Francisco, married Consuelo Vallejo of Allende,
> Coahuila, Mexico. Sometime in the 1900's they settled in Texas.

I
> am interested in learning more about the Macias surname. I hope we find
> common
pieces.

Norma Partida

Macias surname

Comment

These might be relatives of yours. You will need to see the original
christening record on the film of this Francisco to verify if he is the
one you are looking for. Occasionally the people extracting the christenings
made mistakes (typo's). His mother might actually be a Mendoza instead of
the indicated Mendez. The date does not match; however, not all children
were christened right after birth. Additionally the information on the date
of his birth might have been passed down through several generations and
could have been modified.

I would look for the marriage record of Francisco in the town where the
bride is from to try to determine the exact name of his parents and possible
origin. Furthermore, I would also try to locate the christening records of
any of the children to see if Abuelos Paternos/Maternos are mentioned.
Moreover, make sure to look at the civil records if they exist for any of
these localities. They often yield additional information and should always
be looked at, regardless of finding the christening record. Whenever
possible, you should try to get two collaberating sources to establish a
fact.

Estos puede que sean parientes suyos. Tendrá que ver el registro de bautismo
original en la película de Francisco para verificar si él es el que usted
busca. De vez en cuando a la gente haciendo la extracción de los bautizmos
cometio errores (error tipográfico's). La madre podría ser en realidad una
Mendoza en lugar de un Méndez. La fecha no coincide, sin embargo, no todos
los niños fueron bautizados inmediatamente después del nacimiento. Además,
la información sobre la fecha de su nacimiento podría haber sido transmitida
a través de varias generaciones, y se pudo haber modificado.

Buscaria el acta de matrimonio de Francisco en la ciudad de donde la novia
es, para tratar de determinar el nombre exacto de sus padres y su posible
origen. Por otra parte, yo también trataria de localizar los registros de
bautismo de alguno de los niños de el para ver si Abuelos Paternos /
Maternos se mencionan. Además, asegúrate de buscar en el registro civil, si
es que existen, para cualquiera de estas localidades. A menudo se encuentra
información adicional, y siempre debe ser considerado, independientemente de
encontrar el registro de bautizo. Siempre que sea posible, usted debe tratar
de conseguir dos fuentes para establecer un hecho.

Andrea Macias
[image: Four Stars] 3 January 1882
La Purificación, Fresnillo, Zacatecas, Mexico

Gerardo Macias
Eucebia Mendosa
Andrea Macias Contributor FamilySearch Extraction Program Source Source
type: Other, Image number: 330, Record number: 93, Batch number: I06934-4,
Batch number: I06934-4, Location in source: v p 285, Source template:
INDEX05, Locality: Fresnillo, Zacatecas, Mexico, Language: Spanish,
Contributor: EXTRACTION
Clemente Macias
[image: Four Stars] 6 December 1891
Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico

Gerardo Macias
Eusebia Mendoza
Male
Contributor
FamilySearch Extraction Program
Source
Source type: Other, Image number: 310, Record number: 59, Batch number:
I04325-9, Batch number: I04325-9, Location in source: 260, Source template:
INDEX05, Locality: Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico, Language: Spanish,
Contributor: EXTRACTION

Juana Macias
[image: Four Stars] 19 September 1886
Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico

Gerardo Macias
Eusebia Mendoza

Contributor
FamilySearch Extraction Program
Source
Source type: Other, Author: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints, Event date: , Image number: 151, Reference number: p 115, Batch
number: I043258, Contributor: EXTRACTION

Jose Ysabel Macias
[image: Four Stars]
15 July 1879
Víctor Rosales (Pinos), Zacatecas, Mexico

Gerardo Macias
Eusebia Mendoza
Name: Jose Ysabel Macias Contributor FamilySearch Extraction Program
Source Source type: Other, Image number: 21, Record number: 45, Batch
number: I07607-7, Batch number: I07607-7, Location in source: v 1 p 12,
Source template: INDEX05, Locality: Víctor Rosales (Pinos), Zacatecas,
Mexico, Language: Spanish, Contributor: EXTRACTION

Francisco Macias
[image: Four Stars] 10 February 1889
Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico

Gerardo Macias
Eusebia Mendez
Source

Source type: Other, Image number: 226, Record number: 2, Batch number:
I04325-9, Batch number: I04325-9, Location in source: v 1 p 185, Source
template: INDEX05, Locality: Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico, Language: Spanish,
Contributor: EXTRACTION

Dominga Macias
[image: Four Stars] 3 March 1895
Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico

Gerardo Macias
Eusebia Mendoza
Source type: Other, Image number: 402, Record number: 11, Batch number:
I04325-9, Batch number: I04325-9, Location in source: 41, Source template:
INDEX05, Locality: Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico, Language: Spanish,
Contributor: EXTRACTION

Petra Macias
[image: Four Stars] 13 May 1884
Ojuelos, Zacatecas, Mexico

Gerardo Macias
Eusebia Mendoza

Source type: Other, Author: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
Event date: , Image number: 65, Reference number: p 49, Batch number:
I043258, Contributor: EXTRACTION

Good luck! Buena suerte!

Saludos desde Lago Salado (Salt Lake City, UT)
Eduardo H Seoane
EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com

Genealogy Tree

Comment

Hello Rubén! Im Daniel Camino were from Huanusco right next door to Jalpa, Did you know that Jalpa use to be part of Huanusco? (Thats what I heard) Anyway, you might have heard of us the Camino family who owns or at least use to the Hacienda La Luz all the on eastern Huanusco and extends into Aguascalientes? I might be able to help with some families you search for namely, Flores, Rentería, I wonder if your related to the same Hernández who came from Jalpa to La Luz, it's possible. As may know Huanuscans and Jalpans intermarry extensively making Los Altos seem normal, we have nephews and aunts marry, cousins and 1st cousins, 2nd, 3rd, uncle and nieces. Especially in La Luz we have a pop of abt 340 and everyone is related somehow. We started out with 7 families and for the next 200 years we would only marry into these families. They were the quote in quote "pure spanish blood", many times we have been confused and can totally pass for Anglos (i.e. from England or ancestry) I dont say pass as anglo-saxon because I also have saxon blood, I do have some English ancestors but farther back. As you do your research you might seem to trace them east to Huanusco so dont be easily discouraged if you cant find them in Jalpa. Jalpa has a rather new church built ca. 1920? Remember that Jalpa was under the jurisiction of Tabasco as well so people went to baptize their kids their most of the time, us at La Luz stopped going to Tabasco, and had our own Juris. when we built La Iglesia de Nuestra Señora de la Luz, most of the Huanusco ranches came to our hacienda to get baptize and some Jalpa, thats how the HErnández met the Caminos. Soon after they would move to La Luz.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Genealogy Tree

Comment

Daniel,
My mom is from Los Altos, the same thing about intermarriage among a few families, same idea of the "pure Spanish blood"
Gabriela> From: mormonboy74@hotmail.com> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:18:10 -0700> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogy Tree> > > Hello Rubén! Im Daniel Camino were from Huanusco right next door to Jalpa, Did you know that Jalpa use to be part of Huanusco? (Thats what I heard) Anyway, you might have heard of us the Camino family who owns or at least use to the Hacienda La Luz all the on eastern Huanusco and extends into Aguascalientes? I might be able to help with some families you search for namely, Flores, Rentería, I wonder if your related to the same Hernández who came from Jalpa to La Luz, it's possible. As may know Huanuscans and Jalpans intermarry extensively making Los Altos seem normal, we have nephews and aunts marry, cousins and 1st cousins, 2nd, 3rd, uncle and nieces. Especially in La Luz we have a pop of abt 340 and everyone is related somehow. We started out with 7 families and for the next 200 years we would only marry into these families. They were the quote in quote "pure spanish blood", many times we have been confused and can totally pass for Anglos (i.e. from England or ancestry) I dont say pass as anglo-saxon because I also have saxon blood, I do have some English ancestors but farther back. As you do your research you might seem to trace them east to Huanusco so dont be easily discouraged if you cant find them in Jalpa. Jalpa has a rather new church built ca. 1920? Remember that Jalpa was under the jurisiction of Tabasco as well so people went to baptize their kids their most of the time, us at La Luz stopped going to Tabasco, and had our own Juris. when we built La Iglesia de Nuestra Señora de la Luz, most of the Huanusco ranches came to our hacienda to get baptize and some Jalpa, thats how the HErnández met the Caminos. Soon after they would move to La Luz. > -Daniel Méndez del Camino> _________________________________________________________________> Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.> http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN5…; -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.
http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN5…

Vasquez Retamosa

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hi Group, Im studying the Vasquez Retamosa family and am stuck on who is the patriarchs of this family.

Comments

Maria Vazquez Retamosa

Comment

Daniel:

Segun informacion publicada en el libro "El señor de la Misericordia de Encarnacion de Diaz" de Rodolfo H Hernandez Quezada, Cronista de la ciudad que cita como fuente "comunicacion personal con Mariano Gonzalez-Leal",dice que Alonso Macias Valadez y Maria Vazquez Retamosa eran originarios de Villanueva de Balcarrota, Badajoz, Extremadura, España.

Miguel Beltran

Vasquez Retamosa

Comment

Daniel,

I hope that the following is of at least some peripheral assistance in this searh.

Family History Library Film 1553960 (Batch F867345) indicates that my ancestor Nicolas Aceves Valadez (born about 1557 in Lagos de Moreno) married Leonor Retamosa (born about 1561 in Lagos de Moreno) about 1582 in Lagos de Moreno and had at least the following 5 offspring:

- Leonor Retamosa, born about 1583 in Lagos de Moreno.
- Gaspar Macias, boprn about 1587 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.
- Mateo Macias Valadez, born about 1589 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes (and died 26 July 1662).
- Felipe Macias Valadez, born about 1593 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.
- Alonso Macias Valadez, born about 1595 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes (and died 27 January 1645).

Saludos,

Efrain Conrique

-----Original Message-----
>From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
>Sent: Apr 3, 2010 9:29 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Vasquez Retamosa
>
>Hi Group, Im studying the Vasquez Retamosa family and am stuck on who is the patriarchs of this family.
>I have only found two pairs of sisters: Maria Vasquez Retamosa (1561) who married Alonso Macias Valadez
>and Maria Vasquez Retamosa (1565) who married Nicolas Macias Valadez. These families were active in
>Aguascalientes and in LAgos de Moreno. It appears most females in these two families took the maternal
>surname: Vasquez Retamosa. Can anyone help?
>
>Daniel

Vasquez Retamosa

Comment

Daniel,

I hope that the following is at least of some peripheral assistance to you in this searh.

Family History Library Film 1553960 (Batch F867345) indicates that my ancestor Nicolas Macias Valadez (born about 1557 in Lagos de Moreno) married Leonor de Retamosa (born about 1561 in Lagos de Moreno) about 1582 in Lagos de Moreno, and had at least the following 5 offspring:

- Leonor Retamosa, born about 1583 in Lagos de Moreno.
- Gaspar Macias, born about 1587 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.
- Mateo Macias Valadez, born about 1589 in Aguascalientes (and died28 July 1662).
- Felipe Macias Valadez, born about 1593 in Aguas; and,
- Alonso Macias Valadez, born about 1595 in Aguas (and died 27 January 1645).

Saludos,

Efrain Conrique

TORIBIO HERNANDEZ DE

Forums

Genealogy Research

There is a tradition about this time concerning the naming of children after grandparents and great grandparents. This, among other information leads to a high probability as to who his parents are.

Comments

TORIBIO HERNANDEZ DE

Comment

With all the information that exists on toribio, his wife, and children, I have not seen or heard of any documents that state for sure who his parents are . Without those documents you must rely on all the other information put together, and, even though it is not definitive, leads to a high probabilty as to who his parents are.
I believe that it is more a question as to who his wifes parents are though again, looking at all given information it is highly probable that they were second or third cousins. I have read statements by other genealogists that I believed to be true at one time but feel that more evidence is needed to convince me. I believe that they were second cousins but again there is something I have to clear up, hopefully in the near future.
------Original Message------
From: sceleste_m@hotmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] TORIBIO HERNANDEZ DE
Sent: Apr 27, 2010 12:44 PM

Does anyone have more info on Toribio Hernandez de Arellano?

thank you.
Sofia

Gracinas?

Forums

Genealogy Research

I came across the term "Gracinas" in the LDS records today. It was placed in lieu of a birth date under the "Events" section of a marriage record (the marriage details were all there).

Comments

Gracinas?

Comment

Hi Annette,

I'm not sure if this would make any sense in your research, especially since you say that you found this word in lieu of a birth date. This term has been used to say "thank you" rather than saying "Gracias". It is widely used to date in Spain.

Olivar,Ramirez,Gonzales,Perez From Rancho de Santa Ysabel

Forums

Genealogy Research

Seeking relatives from

San Gaspar de los Reyes
Rancho Nuevo
Rancho de Santa Ysabel
Tepatitlan
Rancho Olivar
San Juan de los Lagos

Cortez Alvarado

Forums

Genealogy Research

Does any on know where I can find some good books of the history of Guanajuato.

Deaths about 1919

Forums

Genealogy Research

Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:24:42 PM
From:
"Amy DeLaTorre"
To:
""
Amy DeLaTorre wrote:
The Rojas and Betancourt were born in Cu

Comments

Deaths about 1919

Comment

Amy,
I copied information for you that you can order from SLC through an FHC. The
one about deaths for 1919 is at the very end. Hope this helps.
-Esther Jordan Lopez

Title
Registros parroquiales, 1747-1925
Authors
Iglesia Católica. Santa María Mecatabasco (Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas) (Main
Author)
Notes
Microfilme de manuscritos en el archivo de la parroquia de Villa del Refugio.
Incluye registros de Huanusco y El Plateado, este último denominado actualmente
General Joaquín Amaro.
Algunos tomos incluyen índice.
Villa del Refugio se denomina actualmente Tabasco.
Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriages, marriage petitions and
deaths from Tabasco, formerly known as Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Some books include index.
Includes records from Plateado and Huanusco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Subjects
México, Zacatecas, Tabasco - Church records
México, Zacatecas, Huanusco - Church records
México, Zacatecas, General Joaquín Amaro - Church records
Format
Manuscript (On Film)
Language
Spanish
Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmado por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1974
Physical
57 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.
Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Bautismos 1747-1776 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094622 ]
Bautismos 1776-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094623 ]
Bautismos 1793-1809 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094624 ]
Bautismos 1809-1826 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094625 ]
Bautismos 1826-1838 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094626 ]
Bautismos 1838-1861 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094627 ]
Bautismos 1861-1869 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094628 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1869-1873 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094629 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1873-1880 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094630 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1880-1889 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094631 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1889-1894 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094632 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1894-1900 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094633 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1900-1903 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094634 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1903-1907 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094635 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1907-1912 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094636 ]
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1912-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094637 ]
Bautismos de hijos naturales 1859-1885 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094638 ]
Bautismos de hijos naturales 1885-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094873 ]
Confirmaciones 1868-1896,1901-1911,1916-1924 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094874 ]
Matrimonios 1774-1782,1787-1835 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094875 ]
Matrimonios 1835-1857,1862-1875 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094876 ]
Matrimonios 1875-1894,1896-1901 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094877 ]
Matrimonios 1901-1909 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094878 ]
Matrimonios 1909-1920 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094879 ]
Información matrimonial 1842-1848 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094880 ]
Información matrimonial 1848-1854 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094881 ]
Información matrimonial 1854-1856,1858-1863 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094882 ]
Información matrimonial 1861-1868 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094883 ]
Información matrimonial 1868-1872 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094884 ]
Información matrimonial 1872-1874 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094885 ]
Información matrimonial 1875-1877 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094886 ]
Información matrimonial 1878-1882 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094887 ]
Información matrimonial 1882-1886 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094888 ]
Información matrimonial 1887-1890 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094889 ]
Información matrimonial 1890-1897 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094890 ]
Información matrimonial 1897-1898 - FHL INTL Film [ 1094891 ]
Información matrimonial 1899 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1094892 ]
Información matrimonial 1900 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095010 ]
Información matrimonial 1901 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095011 ]
Información matrimonial 1902-1903 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095012 ]
Información matrimonial 1903-1904 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095013 ]
Información matrimonial 1904 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095014 ]
Información matrimonial 1905 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095015 ]
Información matrimonial 1906-1907 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095016 ]
Información matrimonial 1908-1909 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095017 ]
Información matrimonial 1910 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095135 ]
Información matrimonial 1911-1912 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095136 ]
Información matrimonial 1912 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095137 ]
Información matrimonial 1913 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095138 ]
Información matrimonial 1914-1916 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095139 ]
Información matrimonial 1916-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095140 ]
Información matrimonial 1918-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095141 ]
Información matrimonial 1920-1921 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095142 ]
Defunciones 1774-1788 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095143 ]
Defunciones 1814-1833 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095144 ]
Defunciones 1833-1853,1861-1868 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1095145 ]
Defunciones 1869-1919 - FHL INTL Film [ 1095146 ]

On April 26, 2010 at 1:27 AM Amy DeLaTorre wrote:

> Fw: RE: Deaths about 1919
>
> Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:24:42 PM
> From:
> "Amy DeLaTorre"
> To:
> ""
> Amy DeLaTorre wrote:
> The Rojas and Betancourt were born in Cueva Grande and Christened in the
> Iglesia Catolica, Adjuntas del Refugio, Zacs. I have ordered microfilm #
> 1506968 and found births, but no deaths. Which microfilm do you recommend for
> deaths in that area and that time period? Thank You, Amy de la Torre

Fwd: SOMOS PRIMOS May 2010 125th Online Issue

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: SOMOS PRIMOS May 2010 125th Online Issue
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:04:31 EDT
From: Somosprimos@aol.com
To: Somosprimos@aol.com

Click he

Comments

Fwd: SOMOS PRIMOS May 2010 125th Online Issue

Comment

Thank you for one of the most resourceful articles (with countless attachments) that I have seen in a long time.
Eloise

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, Apr 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Fwd: SOMOS PRIMOS May 2010 125th Online Issue

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: SOMOS PRIMOS May 2010 125th Online Issue
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:04:31 EDT
From: Somosprimos@aol.com
To: Somosprimos@aol.com

Click here: Somos Primos
http://www.somosprimos.com/sp2010/spmay10/spmay10.htm

Dear Primos and Friends:

So much is happening currently pertaining to our history and heritage that, I've had to scrunch down quite a few articles. You'll find considerable information on Texas history. The issue is whether elementary and secondary textbooks, will include with accuracy and fairness, the Hispanic historic presence in U.S. history. On Sunday May 2 at 2-4 pm on the steps of theTexas State capitol, representatives from various groups, including Defend the Honor, the American GI Forum, the National Hispanic Institute, the Texas Freedom Network, Tejanos en Accion will give brief summaries on the significance of the key points the SBOE has rejected. The outcome in Texas will affect all of us.

A special feature, appropriate for Memorial Day is an article by Mercy Bautista Olvera, "Dignity Memorial Traveling Vietnam Wall: a Healing Process." Next month we will include a follow-up by Alfredo Lugo about the process of taking the Vietnam Wall from site to site. He and his son spent two weeks photographing the process of traveling the Vietnam Wall to different sites.

A couple of years ago Dan Arellano, at my request produced a very moving 4-minute musical video: El Soldado Olivado . This is a reminder that it is available at: http://www.somosprimos.com/heritage/heritage.htm It could easily be used to open or close a Memorial Day meeting. I have watched it many times, always moved to tears.
A big thank you to all who have submitted information or articles. The diversity and variety of information surely validates that we are over the world.

Warm regards, Mimi
www.SomosPrimos.com
714-894-8161

CONTENT AREAS

United States
The Aztec Pantheon and the Art of Empire
NCLR National Conference, San Antonio, July 10-13, 2010
Soldados Olvidados 4-minute video
Daily Newseum
Nuestras Voces Latinas
National Trust for Historic Preservation
Return to Three Rivers, Texas, April 17, 2010 by Daisy Wanda Garcia
A Wise Latina, Sylvia Ann Carvajal-Sutton by Mercy Bautista-Olvera

Special: Dignity Memorial Traveling Vietnam Wall: A Healing Process by
Mercy Bautista-Olvera

Witness to Heritage
Four Tejanos who spoke before the Texas State Board of Education

History
The American Connection to Cinco de Mayo by Dan Arellano
A Piece of Texas history missing in traditional studies by Antonio Lopez
In Search of the truth in Texas History, The Goliad “Massacre”
Letter to Bishop David Fellhauer
Tejana Heroines at the Battle of the Alamo
Los Inocentes in Concert honoring Juana Navarro Veramendi Peres
Sylvia Ann Carvajal Sutton, on Family Connections to Siege of the Alamo

Honoring Hispanic Leaders
Ernest Aguilar, Veteran, Activist
Granville W. Hough, Ph.D., Veteran, Historian
Jaime Escalante, Outstanding Educator|
Ruben Vela, Conjunto legend

National Issues
Briefs . . . . .
Quick news from Hispaniclink
Study of Latino Catholics
Census projections for the Latino population
New birth certificates required of Puerto Ricans
Brief History of Social Security
Currently 80% of Latino children in the US, born in the US.
Criminal defendants entitled to know consequences of a guilty plea
March 31st, Cesar Chavez Day
Long Island man of convicted of manslaughter as a hate crime
Website for articles on farm labor and undocumented laborer issues

Action Item
Briefs. . .
The Latino Journal E-News Weekly
Video: Organize! The Lessons of the Community Service Organization

Business
Baby Abuelita to be Featured in Math Textbook
Women’s History Month Highlights Latina Entrepreneurs Impact on U.S. Business
NAD Bank Funds UTSA Institute for Economic Development
Spanish-language TV Networks Thriving

Education
The Harmonica Man
Chicago school gets all its seniors into college
Hispanic Scholarship Alliance of St. Louis
LULAC Education News, inaugural issue
Jovita Idar: Early activist for equal educational treatment for Mexican children
Hispanic Leaders Push for Education
Teach Kids to Love Learning, not Just to Learn How to Earn
Britain's Brainiest Family is Black and Has 9-Year-Old High School-Bound Twins
High school mural shows female role models
Examples of ¡Excelencia!

Culture
Paul Renteria in documentary, "Pancho Villa's Last Son"
Richly informative: www. Latinoteca.com
Luis Valdez play "Zoot Suit" performed in Mexico City
Priest-Turned-Scientist Wins $1.53 Million Prize
Restored retablo of St. Augustine in the church of Teopisca, Mexico
Swing Cat Enterprises
European Ethnic Minorities Impact South Texas Cuisine and Culture by
By Richard G. Santos
The Little League World Series' Only Perfect Game

Literature
Poem: Avatar by Armando Rendon
Poem: A Rose by Richard Esquivel
Tafolla, Morales honored with Tomás Rivera Children’s Book Award

Books
Children’s Books at Target
Book published in Spain, 1636, digitized by Google.
Luis Ortega’s Rawhide Artistry, Braiding in the California Tradition
by Chuck Stormes, Don Reeves;
Mendez v. Westminster, School Desegregation and Mexican American Rights
by Philippa Strum
King of the Chicanos, A Novel of the Chicano Movement by Manuel Ramos
Organizing the Chicano Movement: The Story of the CSO by Humberto Garza
How the States Got Their Shapes by Mark Stein
Beyond 50: American States That Might Have Been by Michael J. Trinklein

Military/Law Enforcement
Soldados Olvidados, 4-minute video
Diversity in the US Military
The Pacific and Adjacent Theaters in WWII
Un Orgullo Hispano de PR who received two Silver Stars.
People who fought the war in Cagayan Valley
Officer promotions announcements
Great enlarged photos of the top Military Medals
Interesting story about Monopoly's role in World War II
San Benito Veterans War Memorial
Chief Master Sgt. Ramon Colon-Lopez
Filipinos WW II US Military Service
Civil War National Graves Registration Project
Members of the Five-Star Council

American Revolution Patriots
Forgotten Southern Heros, South Carolinians, Hispanics, and American Independence! film project
Galveztown Plaque
Lt.Col. (retired) Jack Cowan, Texas Connection to the American Revolution
Galvestown Bergantin 1779 Project
Search for Farragut site awaits launch
David G. Farragut Papers
Chronology of Events Surrounding Spain’s Participation in the American Revolutionary
War by National President Judge Edward F. Butler, Sr.

Surnames
Breakthrough in our Arzamendi research by Lauro Garza Arzamendi
Sescosse by Guillermo Padilla Origel
Yermo by Guillermo Padilla Origel
Spanish Surname Meanings & Origins: Uncovering Your Spanish Heritage

Cuentos
Breakfast Tacos went Mainstream, but it did not happen overnight by Juan Castillo
Moderate Earthquake in Southern California, 7/29/2008 by Viola Rodriguez Sadler
Recording family stories which tie into happenings by Mimi Lozano

Family History
"Who Do You Think You Are?"
Tampa Bay Roots
Center of Forensic Profiling, Training & Casework Worldwide Since 1987
Find a Grave
The Perfect Tombstone Rubbing From Kimberly Powell, your Guide to Genealogy
www.Archives.com: Family history made simple & affordable

Orange County, CA
Photo: 2009 Latino OC 100 honorees
May 1st: SHHAR Monthly Meeting: Maternal DNA, speaker Crispin Rendon
May 6th: Salsa with Sergio Contreras, Westminster School Board Trustee
Event and List of 2009 LATINO OC 100

Los Angeles, CA
Art, Activism, Access: 40 Years of Ethnic Studies at UCLA
Fowler Museum exhibition explores 40 years of ethnic studies
Los Angeles Public Library News from Mary McCoy
Alma Llanera-Spirit of the Plains
Hispanic prelate named L.A. archbishop

California
Oakland Museum of California Opening Celebration
URLs for California History
Video of San Francisco 1906 street scene
Telling Their Stories: Producing Web-Based Digital Oral History 5-Day Workshop
Mission Santa Clara Sacramental Records
Don’t Mexicans bleed like we do? By Patrick Osio

Northwestern US
Saturday, May 22: Hispanic Family History Conference in Salt Lake

Southwestern US
Chicanos connecting with Temazcal roots by way of Mexican sweat lodge
Southwestern Historical Quarterly, 57,000 pages online
Dunbar Family of Arizona
Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce hosts 52nd Annual "Black & White Ball
and Business Awards"
Barriozona Editor Receives Cesar E. Chavez Social Justice Award
New Mexico Genealogical Society Celebrates 50 Years
Cuisine of the Trans-Mississippi Colonists Goes West By Richard G. Santos

Indigenous
To Native Americans, naming is identity by Ines Hernandez-Avila
The Taino Tribe Seeking Recognition in the 2010 Census
Indian Tribes Go in Search of Their Lost Languages

Sephardic
The Jews of Spain: Past and Present
Dispersion of Iberian Jews by Gloria Mound

African-American
Afro-Native Americans: The Journey of Black Indians, Past and Present
Reporter seeks Afro-Latinos to Interview
On the US Census, there is no category specifically for mixed race or biracial.
Racial Profiling

East Coast
Taller Boricua
Uneasy Communion: Jews, Christians, and the Altarpieces of Medieval Spain

East of Mississippi
Kane County State Attorney's Office, From the Barrio to the Classroom project
Swedish Covenant - Taft High School, From the Barrio to the Classroom project
Canarian descendants in St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana
The Old St. Gabriel Church
They Come in Ships by Paul Newfield III

Texas
Narciso Martinez Cultural Arts Center
“Battle of Medina " Seminar May 15, 2010 - Laredo Texas, VSALGS Society
Tejanos in Action, Honoring May 28, 2010, the Johnston High 20
Casa Navarro seeking Friends, Preserve the past ~ Protect the Future
Kera's Little Mexico/El Barrio
Doctor continues push for Tejano monument
Defunciones del año de 1813 durante la Batalla del Alasan

Mexico
David Rumsey Historical Map Collection: Mexico City 1883
Don Ignacio Allende Unzaga 1769 –1811 by Clemente Rendón

Caribbean/Cuba
Viejas Fotos del Trolley de Puerto Rico...
Cemi Underground and Taller Boricua
Spanish "Cuban Papers "
Cuban-American Statistics.
The Birth of a Rican Manuel Hernandez Carmona

Spain
Parish of the Assumption of Our Lady in Cordova, Spain
Dona Sancha de Ayala
Revista Electronica: Genealogia Costa Rica
List of Officers & Sailors in the 1st Voyage of Columbus
Reyes Catolicos de España, Fernando II de Aragon e Isabel La Catolica
Consignatarios de Indias.

International
Great web sites on our Hispanic & Filipino connection
Caballeros Andantes, Historia y Leyendas
Primera expedicion desde los Cayos de San Luis, Venezuela
Simon Bolivar: Liberator of Latin America by Scott S. Smith
Nazi Plan for South America

This notification is sent as a service. If you prefer not to receive it, please let me know.

Introducing myself and giving the surnames and locations I'm researching

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hello!

I wanted to take the time to introduce myself. My name is Alexis Villagrana and I reside in Jefferson, Oregon USA. It's so nice to have found your group and was so thrilled to have joine

Comments

felix villagrana

Comment

Hi i am Gabrielle on my husbands fathers side his great great granmother was named Alvina Villagrana i am wondering if she is a sister to your felix. Do you know how many family member their is and who his parents were. thank you gabrielle

felix villagrana

Comment

Hi Gabrielle-

What a coincidence how we were both wondering the same thing about Felix Villagrana having a sister. I just got done telling my family how I had this feeling that Felix had a brother or sister or brothers and sisters; that our younger Villagrana generation did not know about.

I also wondered if Felix had other "children" we also did not know about or were not aware of...
We have all these unidentified relatives in our old family albums and my father was the only one in our immediate family who knew who they all were. My father, as you probably saw in my previous postings, had passed away in 1997. He told me once who many of them were, but being so young, I could not retain everything he said. Unfortunately, my mom suffers bouts of dementia, so it's hard for her to remember. I feel so bad how my father and I were parted for many years, but that's another story for another place and time!

Going back to what I was about to say earlier, I initially assumed that my great grandfather Felix must have been born somewhere between 1875-1880 in order to have his eldest child born in 1898. It was not until I went to the hall of records that I discovered Felix was actually born in 1850, which means he and his wife Apolinares had their eldest known child "Antonio" when Felix was 48 yrs old! It's hard to believe that someone would wait so long to have children... So it made me wonder if he had other children (during his younger years) that I wasn't aware of...

I have these pictures from my dad's old photo albums; Our family believes my dad mentioned how these were his father Antonio's cousins -Which tells me that Antonio's father "Felix" probably did have either a brother and/or sister or brothers and/or sisters who had children!

Just a side note: Antonio's cousins my father spoke of were light complected in their photos resembling Felix Villagrana. There are also dark complected people in a couple of vintage family wedding photos I have, who have the same darker complection as Felix's wife, my great grandmother Apolinares Reyes Villagrana. I'll go ahead and upload these 2 images/photos here, in just a moment...

Another thing too, was that I recall my dad telling us that we had ancestors and relatives who were in theater and/or actors. When I did research the descendants of my great grandfather Felix, I did discover that his great grandson is an actor and member of SAG (Screen Actor's Guild). I also learned he works in showbiz production, behind the scenes; We just met for the first time about 2 weeks ago!

Again I have so many relatives out there that my family lost touch with. It just so turns out that this relative of mine who is in the Screen Actors Guild ...HIS grandfather Andres (Andrew) Villagrana and my grandfather Antonio were brothers! Which means he and I have the same great grandfather "Felix Villagrana"!

I also researched more records on the internet, I found other Villagrana's (an older generation) who were in the same age bracket of my grandpa Antonio, who JUST LIKE my early ancestors, were: *(#6 is interesting!)

1. born and living in Zacatecas
2. Moved to and resided in Chihuahua, Mexico, around the same time as my ancestors.
3. They also seemed to border cross and emigrate to the U.S. at the same time as my ancestors.

4. They seemed to even live around the same area of E. Los Angeles, CA, at around the same time frame as my ancestors and relatives had lived. (The older and newer generations that is.)

5. I even noticed some Villagrana households- some of who I knew were direct decendents of Felix children...had even lived in the same area around the same time of when and where I grew up, in Pico Rivera, CA. Sadly, I wasn't even aware of this growing up-I was young and clueless :( lol!

I remember when I was very young, "this woman" came over out of the blue one day to our home. She knew so much; like just about everything about my family's heritage and genealogy. At the time I thought she was just a friend of my parent's or a very distant relative...I never saw her again...

Fast forward to now...

As it turns out, it just so happened that she had only lived the next street over and only a few blocks away from our home in Pico Rivera, CA...

After all these years, I barely discover who she was upon first searching my family genealogy about 4 months ago; I also learned that she was married to my great grandfather's (Felix) son "Andres (Andrew) Villagrana"! Her name was "Barbara Villagrana." She also went by "Bobby" according to her great, great grand daughter whom I found online earlier this year. I went to meet her and the rest of her family too, about a couple of weeks ago!

Not only did she have a thorough knowledge of our family history- she seemed to go way back in time too. When she came over that one day, I was trying so hard to keep up with everything she was saying because she was so like a walking encyclopedia with all this information and she spoke about things rather quickly. :)

Sadly I found out she passed away in 2007, taking all this vital information with her. So when I tried to talk to her descendants, a lot of what they said is sketchy as they too struggle to remember what she said!

Some of the other Villagrana households in Pico Rivera whom I'm not acquainted with, MAY have descended from perhaps the unknown brothers of Felix OR maybe not? Perhaps we just happen to have the same last name.

6. Get this, as I read their documents online, which were from around the time periods of between 1915 - late 1930's I believe, (I have to go back and verify) ...I saw that "THERE WERE INDEED VILLAGRANA'S WHO STATED "THEATER" AS AN OCCUPATION on their papers! These records were among the "The Declaration of Intent to Naturalize and The Declaration of Naturalization as well as The Census and Border Crossing documents- describing their entering and being in the U.S."

I am still researching who they descended from...but again, remember how my dad mentioned those relatives/his dad's cousins who were in acting? I really do believe Felix had siblings!

All this tells me that there is a huge Villagrana family out there that I'm not even aware of, whom I'm indirectly related to.

The Census records tell me that these different Villagrana households did not just have 2 or 3 children; they were more like basketball teams! I'm sorry I'm being silly. If I recall correctly, it was more like 7 or 8 children! I can imagine how many children their children had. They also had son's who would have carried down the Villagrana name.

It made me think how many Villagrana's out there I could be related to directly and indirectly. It used to be where I'd see another Villagrana in our town telephone book and I remember telling my mom as a little girl, but she'd just tell me that just because we had the same last name, it didn't mean we were related. It turns out that the ones in our town WERE descendants of these Villagrana's that were actors or in theater!

I recently came back from a trip to California where I went to look up and meet relatives I never met before. It was such a beautiful experience! I met about 6 different households of Villagrana's and descendants whom I just found I was related to including a long lost aunt I never knew existed, now in her mid 70's!

My father Manuel Villagrana and his 1/2 sister Cecilia Villagrana (Same father, different mother; see my photos I uploaded here on site) became separated or distanced while youths growing up and now after all these years I met her! It made me cry because before I left her home, she told me to wait and she took out a beautiful heart-shaped gold locket with engravings, from the 1940's that my father had given to her as a gift before they got separated and she gave it to me instead of passing it down to her own daughter like she intended.

The reason she gave it to me was because she knew how much I missed my father since he died and she told me "Now you have something that your father held in his hands when he was alive"! I thought that was just the most beautiful and sweetest thing!

She also said that my father had given it to her right after coming home from the war or service. (He was in the Army during WWII in the South Pacific, in Guadecanal and these other islands) So that really touched my heart so much...Someone in my family did suggest that perhaps the reason he had given her that locket was because while in the service, he received a Dear John letter from a girlfriend. I heard my father was devastated that this woman did not wait for him. The way it sounded was like he bought her this locket, which he held onto to give to her. My dad had no trouble with getting girlfriends. People told me he was so handsome that he had girls flocking around him, so I was surprised to hear he got a Dear John letter. LOL :)

I am still working on the Villagran/Villagrana tree but I'm stuck right now because I can't seem to go back any further than Felix Villagrana and the year 1850. Also, I can't seemed to find any more information about his wife Apolinares Reyes (also spelled Relles by her daughter).

The Villagrana genealogy record I posted online here is not complete. I am going to go back and add more people to it and post all that I know here. I know there are a lot of people missing whom I have no knowledge of.

Oh yes, Felix Villagrana's death record indicated that he lived to be 96 yrs old and was already widowed by the time of his death in 1946 in Los Angeles, CA. I also found out through another source that upon coming to Los Angeles, he obtained a "lot" or land and built his own house in East Los Angeles, CA. The house still stands today.

Oh, you were asking about his parents and where they were from? The record says that his parents were both from Zacatecas, Mexico. I was disappointed to find that the record obtained from Norwalk, CA, listed Felix father's name as "unknown" and his mother's name is listed as "unknown(Maria)". I didn't know if this meant her maiden surname was Maria or if her first name was Maria.

I hope all this helps...

-Alexis Villagrana : )

i am looking for and information on Alvina Villagrana

Comment

Hi Alexis
Alvina Villagrana was probably born about 1835 in think in the state of Zacatacas. She was married to Franciso Zamarripa that is about all the info. I have on her because her son Anastacio disappeared in the hills of Zacatacas some time in the late 1890's. His wife never heard from him again so the family thinks he may have been killed or was lost. I wish I knew more but all of my husbands aunts and uncles has passed away and we have very little information.

thank you Gabrielle Zamarripa

i am looking for and information on Alvina Villagrana

Comment

Maria Gertrudis Zamarripa Villagrana hija de Francisco Villagrana y Alvina Villagrana crist. 23 nov 1867 San Cosme Villa de Cos, Zacatecas C601187 film I095188 Lety Reynoso

_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
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My Photos/Lastest images uploaded

Comment

I just uploaded some vintage photo's from the Villagran/Villagrana family collection, that I wanted to share with you all.

Alexis VIllagrana

European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

I do not have the surname Villagran in my great-grandfather's line but I can check again, as his family was living in Zacatecas, Zacatecas at that same time period.

To answer your question, as opposed to what the first reply you got here was, it could very well be a possibility you have a foriegn ancestor. Zacatecas was in the middle of both the Mexican Civil War, also known as the Guerra Reforma, as well as the French Intervention. Aside from French soldiers, you had a whole bunch of foriegners associated with the French Foriegn Legion, as well as the Austrian Legion which was composed of men from all over the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Emperor Maximillian wanted a strong core of soldiers for his army once the French left, so he especially wanted bachelors from his native homeland to come and marry into Mexican families, which some subsequently did. Even the French commander, Marshal Bazaine married into the Mexican aristocracy.

Also, as another point, sure many Spaniards may be of Celtic origin, but I think they are also ignoring that nearly all of Spain and all of Portugal was under North African control at one time or another. A reason why so many Spaniards have a dark complection, otherwise known as a "Mediterranean" look. Most conquistadors, as well as most Spanish men who came to settle in the first hundred years after the conquest came from southern Spain, where North African influence would have been the strongest.

Just some interesting points of history to consider before you start excluding what you are told through family stories.

Introducing myself and

Comment

I have a friend who is Spanish Basque, his surname is Lazarraga, he looks "mediterranean" possiblybecause of his basque blood, then again I have met light basques. I guess in reality it all depends on yourpersonal genealogy. From personal experience northern spaniards tend to be the lightest on overall average.I have studied the history of Spain and am aware of Northern Africans, settling on the Iberian peninsula.
Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: texn_4_ever@yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:12:54 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introducing myself and
>
> I do not have the surname Villagran in my great-grandfather's line but I can check again, as his family was living in Zacatecas, Zacatecas at that same time period.
>
> To answer your question, as opposed to what the first reply you got here was, it could very well be a possibility you have a foriegn ancestor. Zacatecas was in the middle of both the Mexican Civil War, also known as the Guerra Reforma, as well as the French Intervention. Aside from French soldiers, you had a whole bunch of foriegners associated with the French Foriegn Legion, as well as the Austrian Legion which was composed of men from all over the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Emperor Maximillian wanted a strong core of soldiers for his army once the French left, so he especially wanted bachelors from his native homeland to come and marry into Mexican families, which some subsequently did. Even the French commander, Marshal Bazaine married into the Mexican aristocracy.
>
> Also, as another point, sure Spanish may be Celtic, but I think they are also ignoring that nearly all of Spain and all of Portugal was under North African control at one time or another. A reason why so many Spaniards have a dark complection, otherwise known as a "Mediterranean" look. Most conquistadors, as well as most Spanish men who come to settle in the first hundred years after the conquest came from southern Spain, where North African influence would have been the strongest.
>
> Just some interesting points of history to consider before you start excluding what you are told through family stories.

Introducing myself and

Comment

Hello Daniel,

You are right. In the north they are generally lighter. Yes there are Basque that are dark, but just as many if not more that are light.
For other readers here are some faces of Basques from Athletic Club de Bilbao. They only have Basques on their team. http://www.athletic-club.net/web/main.asp?a=1&b=1&c=0&d=0&idi=1
I get Television España Internaciónal TVEI and almost every time I see them show faces of people of the Basque political parties on the news I see güeros. You can watch their newscasts at http://www.rtve.es/

Armando

European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

Adrian,

I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?

Armando

European Ancestry in Mexico.

Comment

First off, it did sound as if you were ignoring North African history in Spain. All this talk of Celtic Spanish heritage, it felt as if you were ignoring the part of Spain where most Spanish conquistadors came from. Now, I know Zacatecas and most of northern Mexico seems to be different. I myself do not dispute what you say, as my ancestors from northern Chihuahua, at least those I've traced to Spain, all come from northern Spain. The Castile half that is.
I do agree with Daniel in that it really does depend on the individual's own geneology, and not simply the fact of which part of Spain one's ancestors came from.

The other part sounded rather sarcastic, I never said all Mexicans of that area of fair complection are of French heritage. What I was trying to refute was you pointing someone down the geneological path you believe and saying the other one is just a myth. If that is so, then you surely do not know Mexican history.
Many foriegners, not just French, found their way into Mexico one way or another. In Texas, many early Anglo settlers intermarried with Tejano families. In southern New Mexico and in west Texas, many early American settlers married into influential Chihuahuan families.

We are both trying to provide information to help people, but calling someone's family history being based on a "myth", when it might be a fact, does not help his research.

European Ancestry in Mexico.

Comment

Adrian,

You are missing the point. The answer was in a general sense about of our area of research. There are a lot of güeros in our area of research and his ancestry is shared with those same people. They are people that I personally know and are also güeros. I have lived and gone to school in the area. I brought up the fact that there is a myth of us being descendants of French is because it is just that a myth. It is spread too often and to this day. They even had the wife of a second cousin of mine believing that exact myth. This myth should be stopped when there is no proof of it being fact. Beside it totally ignores Spanish history, the Spanish people, and the real Mexican history.
I do have a cousin that has French ancestry but he has a French surname. My wife is from Chihuahua and she is a güera. She doesn't have any foreign blood going back four generations. I am fully area of the history of Mexico and of our area of study. What happened in southern New Mexico, west Texas, and Chihuahua doesn't change the ancestry of Los Altos and surrounding areas.

Armando

European Ancestry in Mexico.

Comment

Armando,

I think you are mistaken when you claim I missed a point. I do not dissagree with you about there being a more distinct Spanish heritage in Zacatecas and other parts of northern Mexico than anywhere else.
A branch of my Chihuahua family, and this was during the time of the generation of my great-grand parents, were in fact very proud of being of "pure" Spanish heritage. They certainly didn't need any scientific proof about it, and as my research shows they were right. Mostly because, unlike the area of research here, many patriarchs of Chihuahua arrived in the late colonial period.

Anyways, I think it is best to leave this topic alone for the general forum. After all, most of this thread has been one of argument and not of real help to one of the newest members of this board.

European Ancestry in Mexico.

Comment

I actually also have French ancestry the last name Bourbon does appear as epanol in my tree.My lines are of Castilla, Asturias, Galicia, Basque, Cantabria and Leon. There is a very strongceltic influence, if you ever go to Northern Spain expect to see kilts, the music sounds Gaelicand of course the Spanish bagpipe. Two total different world, where in the south (I love Flamenco)has a more nice arabian twist with upbeat music. Madrid has always been regarded as the passagewayof the two different worlds of Spain. I was once told all europeans regardless of where they came from would be listed as espanol because they accepted and "Castilianized. This could be a reason whywe never see say the Rizzo, Lomelini, or other italian families in New Spain as espanolwhen we undoubtfully know they were italian. One thing we need to be careful about Spain yes,it is a melting pot of different groups of people but everyone has there own unique ancestry.The north although partially colonized by
Africans or Moslems did happen but there identity didnot survive the Christian kingdoms created there own unique group. Although intermixing happeneddoesnt mean every christian women took a moslem man. We are all unique. It is true you can findalmost every time of European in Mexico starting from the independence. A famous English familythat settled in Mexico were Lancaster. I also have Polish-Mexican cousins.

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: texn_4_ever@yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 22:03:25 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in Mexico.
>
> First off, it did sound as if you were ignoring North African history in Spain. All this talk of Celtic Spanish heritage, it felt as if you were ignoring the part of Spain where most Spanish conquistadors came from. Now, I know Zacatecas and most of northern Mexico seems to be different. I myself do not dispute what you say, as my ancestors from northern Chihuahua, at least those I've traced to Spain, all come from northern Spain. The Castile half that is.
>
> The other part sounded rather sarcastic, I never said all Mexicans of that area of fair complection are of French heritage. What I was trying to refute was you pointing someone down the geneological path you believe and saying the other one is just a myth. If that is so, then you surely do not know Mexican history.
> Many foriegners, not just French, found their way into Mexico one way or another. In Texas, many early Anglo settlers intermarried with Tejano families. In southern New Mexico and in west Texas, many early American settlers married into influential Chihuahuan families.
>
> We are both trying to provide information to help people, but calling someone's family history being based on a "myth", when it might be a fact, does not help his research.

European Ancestry in

Comment

We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> Adrian,
>
> I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
>
> Armando

European Ancestry in

Comment

I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in

We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
Daniel

European Ancestry in

Comment

Hello R.A.,

I also feel it is better to have the discussions. Also, you have stated what my point has been all along with the following -

"While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool."

I agree with this too while not ignoring the previous statement while using all available tools. "Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant"

I feel people, too often, focus on the exception to the rule as opposed to what should be done which is mention the rule first then mention the exceptions. There is also the other side of the coin where generalizations are made and the exceptions never mentioned. Most of the links I provided contained information about both the rule and the exceptions.

Armando

European Ancestry in

Comment

I guess that since so much of my genealogy is being researched by other cousins to find the general rule because it is easier to find relatives, I enjoy going into new territory and finding the exceptions even if they only contribute a little bit to the gene pool. The result is that I keep finding the exceptions and that little pool is slowly growing, although still a small minority.
There is a differrence when a prominent genealogist comes up with only one line and I find half a dozen lines.
------Original Message------
From: fandemma@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
Sent: Apr 22, 2010 8:55 AM

Hello R.A.,

I also feel it is better to have the discussions. Also, you have stated what my point has been all along with the following -

I agree with this too while not ignoring the previous statement while using all available tools. "Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant"

Armando

European Ancestry in

Comment

Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.

I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all

8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to

marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos

would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think

we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.

Daniel

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
> >
> > Adrian,
> >
> > I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
> >
> > Armando
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
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European Ancestry in

Comment

The martin del campo seemed to intermarry even more than the alteno average it seems, or maybe it just seems that way. I too have a cousin who has multiple grandparents surnamed martin del campo.
My wife and I both have an ancestor martin del campo that we both descend from 7 times to make us 5 th cousins over and over. My franco lines also seem to have intermarried very often.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:19:09
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in

Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.

I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all

8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to

marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos

would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think

we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.

Daniel

European Ancestry in

Comment

Yes, also all my grandparents are cousins even multiple cousins thanks goodnessI was born in the US, ha ha. Its funny many cousins tend to look the sameand have similar traits. In our family blue eye is more common for males whilegreen is more common for women in our family. Same with hair brown formales blonde for women. This is fascinating, maybe someone knows a bit onwhy this occurs male lines and female lines. I have to disprove a common stereotype,most genealogist say female lines are usually native american or carry the blood, but in my geneaoglywhich is documented very carefully my direct maternal line (so mother's mother's mothers etc is espanola.) Just anotherexample on how every person is unique and so is their genealogy. I do have to agreethat usually the paternal direct line is espanol though. I descend from the Franco de la Cueva, Perez Franco, Franco de Paredes about 6 times, the martin del Campo about 16times. We should figure out who our common ancestors are,
this would be neat.
Daniel
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 04:07:15 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> The martin del campo seemed to intermarry even more than the alteno average it seems, or maybe it just seems that way. I too have a cousin who has multiple grandparents surnamed martin del campo.
> My wife and I both have an ancestor martin del campo that we both descend from 7 times to make us 5 th cousins over and over. My franco lines also seem to have intermarried very often.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:19:09
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.
>
> I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all
>
> 8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to
>
> marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos
>
> would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think
>
> we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>
>> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
>> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
>> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
>> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
>> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
>> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
>> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
>> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
>> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
>> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
>> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
>> To: Patty Hoyos
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>
>>
>> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>>> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>>
>>> Adrian,
>>>
>>> I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
>>>
>>> Armando
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
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>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
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European Ancestry in

Comment

Hello Daniel,

This is concerning your statements -
"In our family blue eye is more common for males while green is more common for women in our family. Same with hair brown for males blonde for women. This is fascinating, maybe someone knows a bit on why this occurs male lines and female lines. I have to disprove a common stereotype,most genealogist say female lines are usually native american or carry the blood, but in my geneaogly which is documented very carefully my direct maternal line (so mother's mother's mothers etc is espanola.) Just another example on how every person is unique and so is their genealogy."

There are multiple theories on why women, in general, are lighter more often than men. The one I think was the most plausible is that they need more vitamin D from the sun.

Concerning the common stereotype of female lines usually being Native American origin. When genealogists mention this they speak of the general rule and not the exception. They do acknowledge that there is a lower percentage of non-native ancestry found and they include the results in the studies. Therefore, your situation does not disprove the stereotype, what it does is provide another example of the exception. A comprehensive analysis of our area would be interesting.

Armando

European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

I agree with you Daniel. To me, all this talk just sounds like a continued justification of why one's family is whiter than someone elses.

Just like the author of this post, my Montalvo great grandparents, and the Cabral relatives of my great grandmother, left Zacatecas during the revolution for the north. Their looks seem to be the norm for what people like Armando were saying, colored eyes, brown hair and fairly light skin. In essense, probably looking more "Spanish" than my Chihuahua ancestors.
My point being, looks of a specific ethnicity aren't always typical, so even if you came from northern Spain, you still might have olive colored skin and brown eyes. The same for those in southern Spain, your ancestor could have had Moor ancestry but have green eyes and light skin.

The point being, everyone's geneology is different. It is how you choose to summerize it is what counts.

Re: European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

Wow, thank you so very much for your reply to my post! I really appreciate all the replies giving to me and I am learning so much...It's like putting pieces of a puzzle together. Is there a way to post photos to share?-are we allowed? I came across photos found of my ancestors such as my great grandparents on both sides. I have to say I was a little perplexed when I was reading their descriptions on their different documents found online. I began to wonder if I was reading about different people with the same name. Even different relatives give different accounts of the color of eyes my grandfather Antonio Villagran(a) had. I was told blue, than I was told green, then told hazel. Hope they weren't color blind, lol, but even documents gave different eye colors as time went by! This may be a silly question, but does eye color change as we mature?

I was so excited when I found photos of my great grandfather Felix Villagran(a) and his wife Apolinares Reyes Villagran(a). I even saw a different spelling of her name as being Relles. My great grandfather definitely looks European. His wife looks darker complected.

Interestingly, in relation with the comments posted, I've had many people approach me and tell me I look Mediterranean; I've even been approached by Native Americans and told they recognize Native American in me and the same thing with Afro-Americans too. Of course Spaniards recognizing I am also a Spaniard.

My late father Manuel Villagrana, whose parents were Antonio Villagran(a) from Zacatecas, Mexico and his mother Antonia (Delgado) Villagrana also from Mexico (I'm still verifying what part she was from)
had said that while he was overseas serving in World War II, he was yelled at by an angry Japanese man who called him a traitor because the man thought that my dad was half Japanese! Hmm-go figure!

So it is interesting to trace the steps of our ancestors!

-Alexis Villagrana

Re: European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

Alexis,

The story of your father is interesting. It reminds me of the movie Windtalkers but with a Native American resembling the Japanese. In another story, there was a WWII war hero that was Hispanic but brought up by Japanse Americans. He learned Japanese while living with them. In the war he convinced the Japanese to surrender after he talked to them. I worked with a guy that was 3/4 Native American and 1/4 Irish American. He was a white guy with dark curly hair. Basically he didn't look Native American at all. I have a copy of a birth certificate that also shows her mother as Relles. I think is my ggg-grandmother but I am not sure if she really is an ancestor. I have no idea if eye color can change, but I think perception can have something to do with it too. I have heard the same thing about other people. Some people don't even notice at first that I have hazel eyes.

Armando

European Ancestry in

Comment

Yup, eye color can skip generation also hair color, my father is blue and my mother is greenI have brown eyes, I have one grandparent with brown eyes. The rest are light eyes. My father is "brunette" (Ha ha) and my mother is a blonde. I have my father's hair. I think genetics with genealogy makes a good project!
Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
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Introducing myself and

Comment

Hello Alexis, the genealogist Mariano Leal and many others, including a late uncle of mine, state that it is a myth that we are French. I also believe it is a myth. You can read Mariano's LOS+MITOS+SEFARDITA+Y+FRANCES at http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
Also, we look Caucasian because we are Caucasian from our Spanish ancestry. During the Last Glacial Maximum the Iberian Peninsula was a refuge for Europeans. Some of the descendants stayed and others moved on. They left the R1b DNA marker which is still prevalent in Spain. Later in time as Europe warmed and spread so did the people. Some returning to Spain including the east German romanized Catholoc Visigoths who invaded Iberia and established a kingdom. Many names and toponyms come from them such as Ricardo (Reccared) and Rodrigo (Roderic) and customs such as the use of a Coat of Arms. Supposedly the highest concentration of their descendants are in Asturias. Based on DNA the people of the British Isles, especially the Irish, descend from the Basque people of Spain. The migration is estimated to have taken place 8,000 years ago. R1b is present in Irish 90-98% and Basques 90-95%. Our people descend from them and it is why we are generally lighter than most regions of Mexico and it is why we are Caucasians. This is not limited to our area though. There are güeros all over Mexico with Monterrey and Chihuahua being others that have a large population of güeros.
Here is a link to the birth record of Jose de Guadalupe Romo baptized 15 Sep 1887 in La Encarnación, Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, Mexico son of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordResults;b…
The link to the marriage of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas with lots of other info - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…
Use that site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start to search for more births and marriages and post back. You will undoubtedly find others researching some of the same families once you report back.
I couldn't find more info on Felix Villagran, Apolnares Reyes, Gregoria Martín, or their descendants.
You can order copies of whole books through mail using the form found here - http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/Rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Aid=&…
So if you found out the place Gregoria Martin was married in you could order copies of all the marriages of that town in 1906. For Felix Villagran since you already know the date the town is only needed to get a copy of that. Once they get all the church records for Zacatecas and Jalisco online we won't have to order microfilms or copies anymore but we will still have to browse a lot of images when we don't have exact dates and places.

Links for Visigoth history and DNA information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b
http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/mexico.html
http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/Thegeneticle…
http://www.ybase.org/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=511&PN=1
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm

Armando Antuñano

Introducing myself and

Comment

IT is true, northern Spain is way different from the south there is a "mysticalfeeling" and very strong celtic culture. The Spanish and English are alsovery closely related.
Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:18:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introducing myself and
>
> Hello Alexis, the genealogist Mariano Leal and many others, including a late uncle of mine, state that it is a myth that we are French. I also believe it is a myth. You can read Mariano's LOS+MITOS+SEFARDITA+Y+FRANCES at http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
> Also, we look Caucasian because we are Caucasian from our Spanish ancestry. During the Last Glacial Maximum the Iberian Peninsula was a refuge for Europeans. Some of the descendants stayed and others moved on. They left the R1b DNA marker which is still prevalent in Spain. Later in time as Europe warmed and spread so did the people. Some returning to Spain including the east German romanized Catholoc Visigoths who invaded Iberia and established a kingdom. Many names and toponyms come from them such as Ricardo (Reccared) and Rodrigo (Roderic) and customs such as the use of a Coat of Arms. Supposedly the highest concentration of their descendants are in Asturias. Based on DNA the people of the British Isles, especially the Irish, descend from the Basque people of Spain. The migration is estimated to have taken place 8,000 years ago. R1b is present in Irish 90-98% and Basques 90-95%. Our people descend from them and it is why we are generally lighter than most regions of Mexico
> and it is why we are Caucasians. This is not limited to our area though. There are güeros all over Mexico with Monterrey and Chihuahua being others that have a large population of güeros.
> Here is a link to the birth record of Jose de Guadalupe Romo baptized 15 Sep 1887 in La Encarnación, Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, Mexico son of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordResults;b…
> The link to the marriage of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas with lots of other info - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…
> Use that site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start to search for more births and marriages and post back. You will undoubtedly find others researching some of the same families once you report back.
> I couldn't find more info on Felix Villagran, Apolnares Reyes, Gregoria Martín, or their descendants.
> You can order copies of whole books through mail using the form found here - http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/Rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Aid=&…
> So if you found out the place Gregoria Martin was married in you could order copies of all the marriages of that town in 1906. For Felix Villagran since you already know the date the town is only needed to get a copy of that. Once they get all the church records for Zacatecas and Jalisco online we won't have to order microfilms or copies anymore but we will still have to browse a lot of images when we don't have exact dates and places.
>
> Links for Visigoth history and DNA information:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b
> http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/mexico.html
> http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
> http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/Thegeneticle…
> http://www.ybase.org/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=511&PN=1
> http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
> http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm
>
> Armando Antuñano

Introducing myself and

Comment

I believe that it comes down to semantics. You could argue both ways. The truth of the matter is that many of the ancestors of the first immigrants to los altos jalisco had themselves ancestors that descended from an area which we traditionally say was part of the iberian kingdoms but was split up with the north being in present france and the southern portion in present Spain. The rodriguez de frias y hijar can also add french ancestors from farther north in the center of modern day france.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: fandemma@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:18:36
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introducing myself and

Hello Alexis, the genealogist Mariano Leal and many others, including a late uncle of mine, state that it is a myth that we are French. I also believe it is a myth. You can read Mariano's LOS+MITOS+SEFARDITA+Y+FRANCES at http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
Also, we look Caucasian because we are Caucasian from our Spanish ancestry. During the Last Glacial Maximum the Iberian Peninsula was a refuge for Europeans. Some of the descendants stayed and others moved on. They left the R1b DNA marker which is still prevalent in Spain. Later in time as Europe warmed and spread so did the people. Some returning to Spain including the east German romanized Catholoc Visigoths who invaded Iberia and established a kingdom. Many names and toponyms come from them such as Ricardo (Reccared) and Rodrigo (Roderic) and customs such as the use of a Coat of Arms. Supposedly the highest concentration of their descendants are in Asturias. Based on DNA the people of the British Isles, especially the Irish, descend from the Basque people of Spain. The migration is estimated to have taken place 8,000 years ago. R1b is present in Irish 90-98% and Basques 90-95%. Our people descend from them and it is why we are generally lighter than most regions of Mexico
and it is why we are Caucasians. This is not limited to our area though. There are güeros all over Mexico with Monterrey and Chihuahua being others that have a large population of güeros.
Here is a link to the birth record of Jose de Guadalupe Romo baptized 15 Sep 1887 in La Encarnación, Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, Mexico son of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordResults;b…
The link to the marriage of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas with lots of other info - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…
Use that site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start to search for more births and marriages and post back. You will undoubtedly find others researching some of the same families once you report back.
I couldn't find more info on Felix Villagran, Apolnares Reyes, Gregoria Martín, or their descendants.
You can order copies of whole books through mail using the form found here - http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/Rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Aid=&…
So if you found out the place Gregoria Martin was married in you could order copies of all the marriages of that town in 1906. For Felix Villagran since you already know the date the town is only needed to get a copy of that. Once they get all the church records for Zacatecas and Jalisco online we won't have to order microfilms or copies anymore but we will still have to browse a lot of images when we don't have exact dates and places.

Armando Antuñano

The Romo's of Encarnacion de Diaz and Villagrana's of Zacatecas.

Comment

Thank you so much for your reply with all the information and links for me to read and study!!!

Yes, there are a lot of myths floating around out there... There was a rumour among the Villagrana family that we were related to Poncho Villa. It was also speculated that our name started off as being Villa and as time went by, the "gran" and the "a" were later added, hence making the speculation we were related.

I quickly found out that José Doroteo Arango Arámbula was better known by his pseudonym Francisco Villa or its hypocorism Pancho Villa.

It was later on that I was able to look at The Villagrana Family Crest-Coat of Arms sign my brother had purchased and view the origins of our name.

You know how in my post I mentioned about a Romo on my mom's side of my family being a Bishop or some spiritual person? Well a relative told me today that this Romo was a saint who has a shrine in Encarnacion de Diaz. So I just wanted to update...

I am still reading on all the information you provided but wanted to contact you back right away to thank you so very much for the wealth of information you provided me... I will definitely post back after reading all you provided!

-Alexis Villagrana

The Romo's of Encarnacion de Diaz andVillagrana's of Zacatecas.

Comment

Santo Toribio Romo Gonzalez was from Santa Ana between valle de gpe and San miguel el alto. It was not a city and more like a ranch with a group of houses.
Many people feel that the people from la Chona are wrong in claiming him. But The reason that Encarnacion de diaz claims him is because one of his great grandfathers lived in that area for a time and left many Romo relatives there when he moved to the jalostotitlan/san miguel el alto area.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: alexisvillagrana@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:54:39
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo's of Encarnacion de Diaz and
Villagrana's of Zacatecas.

Thank you so much for your reply with all the information and links for me to read and study!!!

I quickly found out that José Doroteo Arango Arámbula was better known by his pseudonym Francisco Villa or its hypocorism Pancho Villa.

It was later on that I was able to look at The Villagrana Family Crest-Coat of Arms sign my brother had purchased and view the origins of our name.

-Alexis Villagrana

RE:The Romo's of Jalisco and a Saint's name...

Comment

R.A. Ricci:

Oh wow- I just read your post...thank you! Earlier, one of the members here also contacted me re. this particular Saint in question who is connected to my mom's Romo side of the family.

When I spoke with my brother again, he did tell me he remembered this shrine dedicated to a Romo who was a Saint, being located between Guadalajara and Encarnacion de Diaz. He also brought up La Chona too...

When I checked on the map, I saw how this one shrine was indeed located between these 2 cities; in Santa Ana de Guadalupe, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mx! THANK YOU ALL for helping me piece the puzzle together of the mystery relative/ancestor who was a saint: SAINT TORRIBIO ROMO GONZALEZ!

RE:The Romo's of Jalisco and a Saint's name...

Comment

Hello Alexis,

I couldn't tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for Encarnación de Díaz.

Armando

The Romo's of

Comment

Armando,

My maternal grandparents were born in Encarnacion de Diaz. What is the
origination of the nickname "La Chona"?

Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
fandemma@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:56 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo's of

Hello Alexis,

I couldn't tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for
Encarnación de Díaz.

Armando

The Romo's of

Comment

Hello Paul,

I imagine, and in no way certain, that it went like this - La Encarnación
became La Encarnachon which became La Chona. Just like Jesus became Chus or
Chuy and Luisa became Licha and so on.

Armando

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Paul J Gomez wrote:

> Armando,
>
> My maternal grandparents were born in Encarnacion de Diaz. What is the
> origination of the nickname "La Chona"?
>
> Paul Gomez
> Rancho Cucamonga, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> fandemma@gmail.com
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:56 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo's of
>
> Hello Alexis,
>
> I couldn't tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for
> Encarnación de Díaz.
>
> Armando

RE:The Romo's of Jalisco and a Saint's name...

Comment

Hello Armando :)

When I heard my brother say it-he ran the words and whole name together like "Encarnacion de Diaz or La Chona" that my ears initially heard it as all being one name. The same with my mom, so I was a little confused. I wasn't sure if the latter part "La Chona" was a nickname or a nearby village, but now I know :)

Thanks!

Alexis

priest pedrigree charts

Forums

Genealogy Research

i was told that a priest has to submit a pedigree chart to the vatican when he enters the priesthood. if that is true can you request a copy of that pedigree chart?

Comments

priest pedigree charts

Comment

I have looked at several of the 'ordenes' films and found them to be somewhat disorganized. The years overlap so you have to search several films to cover the year in question. I have found no pedigree charts but instead many loose documents associated with the priest. At least the documents for individual priests are filmed together. They include documentation from various parishes and government authorities concerning birth, baptism, confirmation, seminary records, etc. Although I found no charts, the documents do show parents and locations and can be very useful. Good luck.

Omar Codina
Austin, Texas

priest pedigree charts

Comment

Thanks Omar for this report. I also noticed the overlapping and wondered
if it was the same material repeated on the various films or if it was
different areas and or individuals for those overlapping years. Is that
what you mean by "At least the documents for individual priests are
filmed together" that it does cover different areas and individuals for
the years that overlap?

If you were looking for a certain priest and let me just say that he
starts showing up in the records around 1862 (see one example here:
http://h2opodcast.com/nr/CiprianoPuente.jpg). What would you do to find
his records? Would you start at that year and work back? Seems like he
might have been a priest in another parish before so maybe his records
start many years before that. I wonder how you'd go about finding info
on the priest without ordering 20-30 years worth of films?

thanks again for reporting on these films,

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

omar_codina@msn.com wrote:
> I have looked at several of the 'ordenes' films and found them to be
somewhat disorganized. The years overlap so you have to search several
films to cover the year in question. I have found no pedigree charts
but instead many loose documents associated with the priest. At least
the documents for individual priests are filmed together. They include
documentation from various parishes and government authorities
concerning birth, baptism, confirmation, seminary records, etc.
Although I found no charts, the documents do show parents and locations
and can be very useful. Good luck.
>
> Omar Codina
> Austin, Texas

priest pedrigree charts

Comment

irbaca@gmail.com wrote:

> i was told that a priest has to submit a pedigree chart to the
vatican when he enters the priesthood. if that is true can you request
a copy of that pedigree chart?

I don't know exactly what is on these films but if you decide to order
one PLEASE give us a full report on the information found on them. I
would love to find out exactly who the Priest name Cipriano Puente was
in the Huejcar area of Jalisco in the late 1800's. Have a look and get
back to us:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetail…

Title
Documentos eclesiásticos, 1604-1898

Authors
Iglesia Católica. Diócesis de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)

Notes
Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en Guadalajara.
Ordenes de los ingresos al sacerdocio.
Documents regarding ordinations to the priesthood within the Roman
Catholic Diocese of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.

Subjects
México, Jalisco - Church records
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church records

Format
Manuscript (On Film)

Language
Spanish

Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
1957-1958

Physical
131 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Ordenes 1648-1881 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168673 ]
Ordenes 1600-1699 - FHL INTL Film [ 168674 ]
Ordenes 1600-1628, 1714 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168675 ]
Ordenes 1620-1659 - FHL INTL Film [ 168676 ]
Ordenes 1604-1691 - FHL INTL Film [ 168677 ]
Ordenes 1614-1668 - FHL INTL Film [ 168678 ]
Ordenes 1668-1684 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168679 ]
Ordenes 1684-1699, 1703, 1708 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168680 ]
Ordenes 1662-1692 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168681 ]
Ordenes 1689-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168682 ]
Ordenes 1679-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168683 ]
Ordenes 1698-1803 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168684 ]
Ordenes 1700-1758 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168685 ]
Ordenes 1758-1775 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168686 ]
Ordenes 1767-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168687 ]
Ordenes 1771-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168688 ]
Ordenes 1771-1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168689 ]
Ordenes 1772-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168690 ]
Ordenes 1700-1717 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168691 ]
Ordenes 1715-1754 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168692 ]
Ordenes 1754-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168693 ]
Ordenes 1702-1735 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168694 ]
Ordenes 1734-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168695 ]
Ordenes 1700-1707 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168696 ]
Ordenes 1707-1736 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168697 ]
Ordenes 1736-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168698 ]
Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168699 ]
Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168700 ]
Ordenes 1779-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168701 ]
Ordenes 1787-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168702 ]
Ordenes 1798-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168703 ]
Ordenes 1701-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168704 ]
Ordenes 1701-1746 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168705 ]
Ordenes 1746-1747 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168706 ]
Ordenes 1747-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168707 ]
Ordenes 1702-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168708 ]
Ordenes 1747-1778 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168709 ]
Ordenes 1777-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168710 ]
Ordenes 1780-1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168711 ]
Ordenes 1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168712 ]
Ordenes 1790-1796 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168713 ]
Ordenes 1796-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168714 ]
Ordenes 1707-1791 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168715 ]
Ordenes 1716-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168716 ]
Ordenes 1703-1792 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168717 ]
Ordenes 1703-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168718 ]
Ordenes 1703-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168719 ]
Ordenes 1748-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168720 ]
Ordenes 1751-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168721 ]
Ordenes 1761-1784 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168722 ]
Ordenes 1724-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168723 ]
Ordenes 1730-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168724 ]
Ordenes 1722-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168725 ]
Ordenes 1732-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168726 ]
Ordenes 1760-1776 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168727 ]
Ordenes 1765-1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168728 ]
Ordenes 1774-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168729 ]
Ordenes 1770-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168731 ]
Ordenes 1786, 1791, 1796-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168732 ]
Ordenes 1714-1753 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168733 ]
Ordenes 1742-1785 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168734 ]
Ordenes 1756-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168735 ]
Ordenes 1787-1800 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168736 ]
Ordenes 1714-1737 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168737 ]
Ordenes 1737-1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168738 ]
Ordenes 1734-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168739 ]
Ordenes 1741-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168740 ]
Ordenes 1748-1797 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168741 ]
Ordenes 1756-1762 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168742 ]
Ordenes 1753-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168743 ]
Ordenes 1761-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168744 ]
Ordenes 1762-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168745 ]
Ordenes 1771-1803 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168746 ]
Ordenes 1651-1829 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168747 ]
Ordenes 1757-1789 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168748 ]
Ordenes 1784-1805 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168749 ]
Ordenes 1757-1799 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168750 ]
Ordenes 1797-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168751 ]
Ordenes 1807-1819 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168752 ]
Ordenes 1819-1824 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168753 ]
Ordenes 1824-1831 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168754 ]
Ordenes 1830-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168755 ]
Ordenes 1853-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168756 ]
Ordenes 1855, 1861-1862 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168757 ]
Ordenes 1800-1814 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168758 ]
Ordenes 1814-1837 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168759 ]
Ordenes 1836-1839 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168760 ]
Ordenes 1839-1841 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168761 ]
Ordenes 1840-1844 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168762 ]
Ordenes 1844-1850 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168763 ]
Ordenes 1850-1865 - FHL INTL Film [ 168764 ]
Ordenes 1864-1865 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168765 ]
Ordenes 1800-1893 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168766 ]
Ordenes 1889-1891 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168767 ]
Ordenes 1800-1805 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168768 ]
Ordenes 1805-1815 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168769 ]
Ordenes 1805-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168770 ]
Ordenes 1805-1818 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168771 ]
Ordenes 1817-1845 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168772 ]
Ordenes 1845-1857 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168773 ]

Numbers 1-100 of 129 film notes.

[Next film notes]

priest pedrigree charts

Comment

I am also very interested what is on these films. They could serve a very valuable purpose for the ancestry charts. I was wondering if anybody has any Camarena lines that go back to Ayotlan, Jalisco. I have a line that ends with Catalina Camarena born in Valencia, Spain who married Francisco Bufreo.

> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:57:57 -0400
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] priest pedrigree charts
>
>
>
> irbaca@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > i was told that a priest has to submit a pedigree chart to the
> vatican when he enters the priesthood. if that is true can you request
> a copy of that pedigree chart?
>
>
> I don't know exactly what is on these films but if you decide to order
> one PLEASE give us a full report on the information found on them. I
> would love to find out exactly who the Priest name Cipriano Puente was
> in the Huejcar area of Jalisco in the late 1800's. Have a look and get
> back to us:
>
> http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetail…
>
> Title
> Documentos eclesiásticos, 1604-1898
>
> Authors
> Iglesia Católica. Diócesis de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)
>
> Notes
> Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en Guadalajara.
> Ordenes de los ingresos al sacerdocio.
> Documents regarding ordinations to the priesthood within the Roman
> Catholic Diocese of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
>
> Subjects
> México, Jalisco - Church records
> México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church records
>
> Format
> Manuscript (On Film)
>
> Language
> Spanish
>
> Publication
> Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
> 1957-1958
>
> Physical
> 131 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.
>
> Film Notes
> Note - Location [Film]
> Ordenes 1648-1881 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168673 ]
> Ordenes 1600-1699 - FHL INTL Film [ 168674 ]
> Ordenes 1600-1628, 1714 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168675 ]
> Ordenes 1620-1659 - FHL INTL Film [ 168676 ]
> Ordenes 1604-1691 - FHL INTL Film [ 168677 ]
> Ordenes 1614-1668 - FHL INTL Film [ 168678 ]
> Ordenes 1668-1684 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168679 ]
> Ordenes 1684-1699, 1703, 1708 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168680 ]
> Ordenes 1662-1692 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168681 ]
> Ordenes 1689-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168682 ]
> Ordenes 1679-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168683 ]
> Ordenes 1698-1803 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168684 ]
> Ordenes 1700-1758 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168685 ]
> Ordenes 1758-1775 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168686 ]
> Ordenes 1767-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168687 ]
> Ordenes 1771-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168688 ]
> Ordenes 1771-1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168689 ]
> Ordenes 1772-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168690 ]
> Ordenes 1700-1717 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168691 ]
> Ordenes 1715-1754 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168692 ]
> Ordenes 1754-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168693 ]
> Ordenes 1702-1735 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168694 ]
> Ordenes 1734-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168695 ]
> Ordenes 1700-1707 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168696 ]
> Ordenes 1707-1736 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168697 ]
> Ordenes 1736-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168698 ]
> Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168699 ]
> Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168700 ]
> Ordenes 1779-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168701 ]
> Ordenes 1787-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168702 ]
> Ordenes 1798-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168703 ]
> Ordenes 1701-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168704 ]
> Ordenes 1701-1746 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168705 ]
> Ordenes 1746-1747 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168706 ]
> Ordenes 1747-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168707 ]
> Ordenes 1702-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168708 ]
> Ordenes 1747-1778 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168709 ]
> Ordenes 1777-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168710 ]
> Ordenes 1780-1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168711 ]
> Ordenes 1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168712 ]
> Ordenes 1790-1796 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168713 ]
> Ordenes 1796-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168714 ]
> Ordenes 1707-1791 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168715 ]
> Ordenes 1716-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168716 ]
> Ordenes 1703-1792 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168717 ]
> Ordenes 1703-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168718 ]
> Ordenes 1703-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168719 ]
> Ordenes 1748-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168720 ]
> Ordenes 1751-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168721 ]
> Ordenes 1761-1784 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168722 ]
> Ordenes 1724-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168723 ]
> Ordenes 1730-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168724 ]
> Ordenes 1722-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168725 ]
> Ordenes 1732-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168726 ]
> Ordenes 1760-1776 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168727 ]
> Ordenes 1765-1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168728 ]
> Ordenes 1774-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168729 ]
> Ordenes 1770-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168731 ]
> Ordenes 1786, 1791, 1796-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168732 ]
> Ordenes 1714-1753 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168733 ]
> Ordenes 1742-1785 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168734 ]
> Ordenes 1756-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168735 ]
> Ordenes 1787-1800 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168736 ]
> Ordenes 1714-1737 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168737 ]
> Ordenes 1737-1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168738 ]
> Ordenes 1734-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168739 ]
> Ordenes 1741-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168740 ]
> Ordenes 1748-1797 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168741 ]
> Ordenes 1756-1762 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168742 ]
> Ordenes 1753-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168743 ]
> Ordenes 1761-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168744 ]
> Ordenes 1762-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168745 ]
> Ordenes 1771-1803 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168746 ]
> Ordenes 1651-1829 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168747 ]
> Ordenes 1757-1789 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168748 ]
> Ordenes 1784-1805 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168749 ]
> Ordenes 1757-1799 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168750 ]
> Ordenes 1797-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168751 ]
> Ordenes 1807-1819 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168752 ]
> Ordenes 1819-1824 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168753 ]
> Ordenes 1824-1831 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168754 ]
> Ordenes 1830-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168755 ]
> Ordenes 1853-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168756 ]
> Ordenes 1855, 1861-1862 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168757 ]
> Ordenes 1800-1814 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168758 ]
> Ordenes 1814-1837 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168759 ]
> Ordenes 1836-1839 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168760 ]
> Ordenes 1839-1841 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168761 ]
> Ordenes 1840-1844 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168762 ]
> Ordenes 1844-1850 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168763 ]
> Ordenes 1850-1865 - FHL INTL Film [ 168764 ]
> Ordenes 1864-1865 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168765 ]
> Ordenes 1800-1893 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168766 ]
> Ordenes 1889-1891 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168767 ]
> Ordenes 1800-1805 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168768 ]
> Ordenes 1805-1815 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168769 ]
> Ordenes 1805-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168770 ]
> Ordenes 1805-1818 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168771 ]
> Ordenes 1817-1845 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168772 ]
> Ordenes 1845-1857 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168773 ]
>
> Numbers 1-100 of 129 film notes.
>
> [Next film notes]
>
> © 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
>

priest pedrigree charts

Comment

This is the same Camarena of Los Altos Camarena was passed down insteadof Bufreo, they eventually reached Guadalajara and then settled in Los Altos.
Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> From: lamobucs@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:44:25 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] priest pedrigree charts
>
>
> I am also very interested what is on these films. They could serve a very valuable purpose for the ancestry charts. I was wondering if anybody has any Camarena lines that go back to Ayotlan, Jalisco. I have a line that ends with Catalina Camarena born in Valencia, Spain who married Francisco Bufreo.
>
>> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:57:57 -0400
>> From: makas@nc.rr.com
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] priest pedrigree charts
>>
>>
>>
>> irbaca@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> i was told that a priest has to submit a pedigree chart to the
>> vatican when he enters the priesthood. if that is true can you request
>> a copy of that pedigree chart?
>>
>>
>> I don't know exactly what is on these films but if you decide to order
>> one PLEASE give us a full report on the information found on them. I
>> would love to find out exactly who the Priest name Cipriano Puente was
>> in the Huejcar area of Jalisco in the late 1800's. Have a look and get
>> back to us:
>>
>> http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetail…
>>
>> Title
>> Documentos eclesiásticos, 1604-1898
>>
>> Authors
>> Iglesia Católica. Diócesis de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)
>>
>> Notes
>> Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en Guadalajara.
>> Ordenes de los ingresos al sacerdocio.
>> Documents regarding ordinations to the priesthood within the Roman
>> Catholic Diocese of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
>>
>> Subjects
>> México, Jalisco - Church records
>> México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church records
>>
>> Format
>> Manuscript (On Film)
>>
>> Language
>> Spanish
>>
>> Publication
>> Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
>> 1957-1958
>>
>> Physical
>> 131 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.
>>
>> Film Notes
>> Note - Location [Film]
>> Ordenes 1648-1881 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168673 ]
>> Ordenes 1600-1699 - FHL INTL Film [ 168674 ]
>> Ordenes 1600-1628, 1714 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168675 ]
>> Ordenes 1620-1659 - FHL INTL Film [ 168676 ]
>> Ordenes 1604-1691 - FHL INTL Film [ 168677 ]
>> Ordenes 1614-1668 - FHL INTL Film [ 168678 ]
>> Ordenes 1668-1684 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168679 ]
>> Ordenes 1684-1699, 1703, 1708 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168680 ]
>> Ordenes 1662-1692 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168681 ]
>> Ordenes 1689-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168682 ]
>> Ordenes 1679-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168683 ]
>> Ordenes 1698-1803 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168684 ]
>> Ordenes 1700-1758 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168685 ]
>> Ordenes 1758-1775 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168686 ]
>> Ordenes 1767-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168687 ]
>> Ordenes 1771-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168688 ]
>> Ordenes 1771-1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168689 ]
>> Ordenes 1772-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168690 ]
>> Ordenes 1700-1717 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168691 ]
>> Ordenes 1715-1754 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168692 ]
>> Ordenes 1754-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168693 ]
>> Ordenes 1702-1735 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168694 ]
>> Ordenes 1734-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168695 ]
>> Ordenes 1700-1707 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168696 ]
>> Ordenes 1707-1736 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168697 ]
>> Ordenes 1736-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168698 ]
>> Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168699 ]
>> Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168700 ]
>> Ordenes 1779-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168701 ]
>> Ordenes 1787-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168702 ]
>> Ordenes 1798-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168703 ]
>> Ordenes 1701-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168704 ]
>> Ordenes 1701-1746 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168705 ]
>> Ordenes 1746-1747 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168706 ]
>> Ordenes 1747-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168707 ]
>> Ordenes 1702-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168708 ]
>> Ordenes 1747-1778 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168709 ]
>> Ordenes 1777-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168710 ]
>> Ordenes 1780-1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168711 ]
>> Ordenes 1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168712 ]
>> Ordenes 1790-1796 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168713 ]
>> Ordenes 1796-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168714 ]
>> Ordenes 1707-1791 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168715 ]
>> Ordenes 1716-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168716 ]
>> Ordenes 1703-1792 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168717 ]
>> Ordenes 1703-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168718 ]
>> Ordenes 1703-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168719 ]
>> Ordenes 1748-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168720 ]
>> Ordenes 1751-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168721 ]
>> Ordenes 1761-1784 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168722 ]
>> Ordenes 1724-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168723 ]
>> Ordenes 1730-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168724 ]
>> Ordenes 1722-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168725 ]
>> Ordenes 1732-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168726 ]
>> Ordenes 1760-1776 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168727 ]
>> Ordenes 1765-1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168728 ]
>> Ordenes 1774-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168729 ]
>> Ordenes 1770-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168731 ]
>> Ordenes 1786, 1791, 1796-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168732 ]
>> Ordenes 1714-1753 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168733 ]
>> Ordenes 1742-1785 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168734 ]
>> Ordenes 1756-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168735 ]
>> Ordenes 1787-1800 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168736 ]
>> Ordenes 1714-1737 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168737 ]
>> Ordenes 1737-1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168738 ]
>> Ordenes 1734-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168739 ]
>> Ordenes 1741-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168740 ]
>> Ordenes 1748-1797 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168741 ]
>> Ordenes 1756-1762 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168742 ]
>> Ordenes 1753-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168743 ]
>> Ordenes 1761-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168744 ]
>> Ordenes 1762-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168745 ]
>> Ordenes 1771-1803 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168746 ]
>> Ordenes 1651-1829 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168747 ]
>> Ordenes 1757-1789 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168748 ]
>> Ordenes 1784-1805 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168749 ]
>> Ordenes 1757-1799 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168750 ]
>> Ordenes 1797-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168751 ]
>> Ordenes 1807-1819 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168752 ]
>> Ordenes 1819-1824 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168753 ]
>> Ordenes 1824-1831 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168754 ]
>> Ordenes 1830-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168755 ]
>> Ordenes 1853-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168756 ]
>> Ordenes 1855, 1861-1862 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168757 ]
>> Ordenes 1800-1814 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168758 ]
>> Ordenes 1814-1837 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168759 ]
>> Ordenes 1836-1839 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168760 ]
>> Ordenes 1839-1841 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168761 ]
>> Ordenes 1840-1844 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168762 ]
>> Ordenes 1844-1850 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168763 ]
>> Ordenes 1850-1865 - FHL INTL Film [ 168764 ]
>> Ordenes 1864-1865 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168765 ]
>> Ordenes 1800-1893 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168766 ]
>> Ordenes 1889-1891 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168767 ]
>> Ordenes 1800-1805 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168768 ]
>> Ordenes 1805-1815 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168769 ]
>> Ordenes 1805-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168770 ]
>> Ordenes 1805-1818 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168771 ]
>> Ordenes 1817-1845 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168772 ]
>> Ordenes 1845-1857 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168773 ]
>>
>> Numbers 1-100 of 129 film notes.
>>
>> [Next film notes]
>>
>> © 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
>>

priest pedrigree charts

Comment

If this is true, then many mysteries regarding alteno genealogy wouldbe solved we should look into it. Its hard on some of them since somefilms overlap in years. As we know many important figures in Los Altosbecame priest, bishops, archbishops, deacons etc.
Daniel

I am related to the second Priest of Calvillo, Ags. Jose del Valle he is my direct ancestor, eventhough men in the order are not supposed to have kids at least inthat time, it didnt stop them from having illigitimate kids.
Daniel
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:57:57 -0400
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] priest pedrigree charts
>
>
>
> irbaca@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > i was told that a priest has to submit a pedigree chart to the
> vatican when he enters the priesthood. if that is true can you request
> a copy of that pedigree chart?
>
>
> I don't know exactly what is on these films but if you decide to order
> one PLEASE give us a full report on the information found on them. I
> would love to find out exactly who the Priest name Cipriano Puente was
> in the Huejcar area of Jalisco in the late 1800's. Have a look and get
> back to us:
>
> http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetail…
>
> Title
> Documentos eclesiásticos, 1604-1898
>
> Authors
> Iglesia Católica. Diócesis de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)
>
> Notes
> Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en Guadalajara.
> Ordenes de los ingresos al sacerdocio.
> Documents regarding ordinations to the priesthood within the Roman
> Catholic Diocese of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
>
> Subjects
> México, Jalisco - Church records
> México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Church records
>
> Format
> Manuscript (On Film)
>
> Language
> Spanish
>
> Publication
> Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
> 1957-1958
>
> Physical
> 131 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.
>
> Film Notes
> Note - Location [Film]
> Ordenes 1648-1881 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168673 ]
> Ordenes 1600-1699 - FHL INTL Film [ 168674 ]
> Ordenes 1600-1628, 1714 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168675 ]
> Ordenes 1620-1659 - FHL INTL Film [ 168676 ]
> Ordenes 1604-1691 - FHL INTL Film [ 168677 ]
> Ordenes 1614-1668 - FHL INTL Film [ 168678 ]
> Ordenes 1668-1684 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168679 ]
> Ordenes 1684-1699, 1703, 1708 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168680 ]
> Ordenes 1662-1692 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168681 ]
> Ordenes 1689-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168682 ]
> Ordenes 1679-1694 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168683 ]
> Ordenes 1698-1803 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168684 ]
> Ordenes 1700-1758 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168685 ]
> Ordenes 1758-1775 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168686 ]
> Ordenes 1767-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168687 ]
> Ordenes 1771-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168688 ]
> Ordenes 1771-1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168689 ]
> Ordenes 1772-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168690 ]
> Ordenes 1700-1717 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168691 ]
> Ordenes 1715-1754 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168692 ]
> Ordenes 1754-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168693 ]
> Ordenes 1702-1735 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168694 ]
> Ordenes 1734-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168695 ]
> Ordenes 1700-1707 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168696 ]
> Ordenes 1707-1736 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168697 ]
> Ordenes 1736-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168698 ]
> Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168699 ]
> Ordenes 1772-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168700 ]
> Ordenes 1779-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168701 ]
> Ordenes 1787-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168702 ]
> Ordenes 1798-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168703 ]
> Ordenes 1701-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168704 ]
> Ordenes 1701-1746 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168705 ]
> Ordenes 1746-1747 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168706 ]
> Ordenes 1747-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168707 ]
> Ordenes 1702-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168708 ]
> Ordenes 1747-1778 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168709 ]
> Ordenes 1777-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168710 ]
> Ordenes 1780-1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168711 ]
> Ordenes 1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168712 ]
> Ordenes 1790-1796 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168713 ]
> Ordenes 1796-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168714 ]
> Ordenes 1707-1791 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168715 ]
> Ordenes 1716-1794 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168716 ]
> Ordenes 1703-1792 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168717 ]
> Ordenes 1703-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168718 ]
> Ordenes 1703-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168719 ]
> Ordenes 1748-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168720 ]
> Ordenes 1751-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168721 ]
> Ordenes 1761-1784 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168722 ]
> Ordenes 1724-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168723 ]
> Ordenes 1730-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168724 ]
> Ordenes 1722-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168725 ]
> Ordenes 1732-1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168726 ]
> Ordenes 1760-1776 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168727 ]
> Ordenes 1765-1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168728 ]
> Ordenes 1774-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168729 ]
> Ordenes 1770-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168731 ]
> Ordenes 1786, 1791, 1796-1798 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168732 ]
> Ordenes 1714-1753 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168733 ]
> Ordenes 1742-1785 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168734 ]
> Ordenes 1756-1799 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168735 ]
> Ordenes 1787-1800 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168736 ]
> Ordenes 1714-1737 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168737 ]
> Ordenes 1737-1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168738 ]
> Ordenes 1734-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168739 ]
> Ordenes 1741-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168740 ]
> Ordenes 1748-1797 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168741 ]
> Ordenes 1756-1762 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168742 ]
> Ordenes 1753-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168743 ]
> Ordenes 1761-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168744 ]
> Ordenes 1762-1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168745 ]
> Ordenes 1771-1803 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168746 ]
> Ordenes 1651-1829 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168747 ]
> Ordenes 1757-1789 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168748 ]
> Ordenes 1784-1805 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168749 ]
> Ordenes 1757-1799 (faltan años) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168750 ]
> Ordenes 1797-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168751 ]
> Ordenes 1807-1819 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168752 ]
> Ordenes 1819-1824 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168753 ]
> Ordenes 1824-1831 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168754 ]
> Ordenes 1830-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168755 ]
> Ordenes 1853-1855 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168756 ]
> Ordenes 1855, 1861-1862 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168757 ]
> Ordenes 1800-1814 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168758 ]
> Ordenes 1814-1837 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168759 ]
> Ordenes 1836-1839 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168760 ]
> Ordenes 1839-1841 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168761 ]
> Ordenes 1840-1844 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168762 ]
> Ordenes 1844-1850 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168763 ]
> Ordenes 1850-1865 - FHL INTL Film [ 168764 ]
> Ordenes 1864-1865 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168765 ]
> Ordenes 1800-1893 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168766 ]
> Ordenes 1889-1891 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168767 ]
> Ordenes 1800-1805 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168768 ]
> Ordenes 1805-1815 (años fuera de orden) - VAULT INTL Film [ 168769 ]
> Ordenes 1805-1808 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168770 ]
> Ordenes 1805-1818 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168771 ]
> Ordenes 1817-1845 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168772 ]
> Ordenes 1845-1857 - VAULT INTL Film [ 168773 ]
>
> Numbers 1-100 of 129 film notes.
>
> [Next film notes]
>
> © 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
>

priest pedrigree charts

Comment

Hi there ,

I have several priest friends here in Monterrey , Mexico and they all know about my genealogy madness and as a matter of fact several have made comments that they would like to do thier genealogy .

My point being that what you have heard may not be true . HOWEVER , I will call them and ask them .

I will keep you posted .

Welester

>
> > i was told that a priest has to submit a pedigree chart to the
> vatican when he enters the priesthood. if that is true can you request
> a copy of that pedigree chart?

_________________________________________________________________
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Cortes, Alvarado

Forums

Genealogy Research

Does anyone happened to have film # 0640139 Batch # M602507
Dates--1867-1883 Marriage records for Jalisco?

Thanks

Sigala

Forums

Genealogy Research

Alguien a encontrado a Atenogenes Sigala, nacio alrededor de 1750-1780. Se caso con Regina Gomes. Tuvieron a Silverio Sigala. Silverio se casa con Victoria Gomes.

Comments

Enriquez

Comment

Hola a todos.. de casualidad alguien tendrá los padres de ambos: Nestor Vicente Enriquez casado con Juana Gomez casados el 9 jun 1779 en Tepatitlan batch M603727 film
0218518? gracias Lety R

_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger.com

Contreras

Comment

Sabe alguien quienes son los padres de Manuel Maria Contreras ( matemático) nacido en el Distrito Federal en 1833? y del Juan N Contreras ( Nepomuceno) ingeniero de minas de guanajuato del Colegio del Estado de Guanajuato.. ganó un premio internacional a finales del s.XIX por un trabajo sobre sismología...agradezco cualquier ayuda.. Lety R

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: as HOT as always
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Contreras

Comment

Hola Lety:
Disculpame pero no tengo nada de información de lo que solicitas

Saludos

El 13 de abril de 2010 20:02, leticia reynoso escribió:

>
>
> Sabe alguien quienes son los padres de Manuel Maria Contreras (
> matemático) nacido en el Distrito Federal en 1833? y del Juan N Contreras (
> Nepomuceno) ingeniero de minas de guanajuato del Colegio del Estado de
> Guanajuato.. ganó un premio internacional a finales del s.XIX por un trabajo
> sobre sismología...agradezco cualquier ayuda.. Lety R
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: as HOT as always
> www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Nochistlan, Zac. and Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac.?

Forums

Genealogy Research

When gathering LDS records is it assumed that when they "Nochistlan, Zac." they mean Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac. or do they mean the smaller town to the North East called simply Nochistlan.

Comments

Nochistlan, Zac. and Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac.?

Comment

Nochistlan didn't become Nochistlan de Mejia until the 1900's and thus it's one and the same Nochistlan, unless you're referrring to Nochistlan in Oaxaca.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "elgrupoalegre@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, April 12, 2010 9:09:42 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan, Zac. and Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac.?

When gathering LDS records is it assumed that when they "Nochistlan, Zac." they mean Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac. or do they mean the smaller town to the North East called simply Nochistlan. Or perhaps this is an entirely different place than two I am considering?
Thanks

Nochistlan (de Mejia) - lost & found

Comment

Thanks Daniel & Alicia for clarifying. I thought that was the case. How nice it would be to have a Nuestros Ranchos gazetteer.

Lisa

Nochistlan, Zac. and Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac.?

Comment

Yes, they are the same, Nochistlan de Mejia is the complete name, hence why onlythe Registro Civil (Government use it) and the Parish (church) simplycall it Parroquia de Nochistlan.
Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: elgrupoalegre@hotmail.com
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:09:42 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan, Zac. and Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac.?
>
> When gathering LDS records is it assumed that when they "Nochistlan, Zac." they mean Nochistlan de Mejia, Zac. or do they mean the smaller town to the North East called simply Nochistlan. Or perhaps this is an entirely different place than two I am considering?
> Thanks

Teaching Moment

Forums

Genealogy Research

Dear Group,
I've come across two new situations that have become stumbling blocks to my reseach. I refer to them as stumbling blocks, not brick walls, because I believe it's just a matter of m

Comments

Teaching Moment

Comment

“Celebration of Family History” occurring in Salt Lake City on April 29.
You can share information about this with others, in that you are out of
town then, by going to the website at support@familysearch.org

I have a friend that has two tickets, please let me know who wants them so I
can have them for you.

Sylvia H Corona Cortes

Teaching Moment

Comment

Wow, Sylvia! It sounds great, but I know it's not possible for me to attend at this time. I hope some other lucky person can take advantage of the tickets. Are those films not available to FHC, only available for viewing at the Family History Library? Maybe they could do a look up for me! Thanks so much for your response and have a fruitful conference.

Alice

--- On Fri, 4/9/10, Sylvia H Corona wrote:

From: Sylvia H Corona
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Teaching Moment
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 6:41 PM

I have a friend that has two tickets, please let me know who wants them so I
can have them for you.

Sylvia H Corona Cortes

Teaching Moment

Comment

I unfortunatelly can not take opportunity of this offer, I hope someone can,
pleale let me know

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Wow, Sylvia! It sounds great, but I know it's not possible for me to
> attend at this time. I hope some other lucky person can take advantage of
> the tickets. Are those films not available to FHC, only available for
> viewing at the Family History Library? Maybe they could do a look up for
> me! Thanks so much for your response and have a fruitful conference.
>
> Alice
>
> --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Sylvia H Corona wrote:
>
>
> From: Sylvia H Corona
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Teaching Moment
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 6:41 PM
>
>
> “Celebration of Family History” occurring in Salt Lake City on April 29.
> You can share information about this with others, in that you are out of
> town then, by going to the website at support@familysearch.org
>
> I have a friend that has two tickets, please let me know who wants them so
> I
> can have them for you.
>
>
> Sylvia H Corona Cortes

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Forums

Genealogy Research

I am seeking information about these two persons, Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna, and Ana Losano, my maternal 7X in-laws.

Comments

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

HI Paul, I have studied the Lopez de la Serda, this is what I have, Geronimo Lopez de la Serda was married twice, firstly to Ana de Lozanoand then to Fabiana de Luevana on 9 August 1682 in Aguascalientes
Heres a quick sumary of the record:
"En la Villa de Aguascalientes en nueve dias del mes de agosotode 1682.....Geronimo Lopez biudo de Ana Lozano....vecino delpueblo de Teocaltiche, con permiso de su parroche? AntonioVillegas con Fabiana de Luevano, esp. hixa lexitima de Juande Luevano, ya difunto y Maria de Alvarado.
It appears Geronimo's parents are not listed because he was widowedand usually the priest would only list the parents on the first marriage.We need to find Ana's record with Geronimo.
I figure he is a son of Juan Lopez de la Serda and Maria de Vielmabut we need evidence, it does appear all the early Serdas come fromJuan who was a son of Luis Lopez de la Serda and Melchora de los Reyes.
Regards,Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
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Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

Thank you, Daniel! Was Juan Lopez de la Serda born in Mexico? If not, his
father was born in Spain, perhaps?

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
Mendez de Camino
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 6:11 PM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

HI Paul, I have studied the Lopez de la Serda, this is what I have, Geronimo
Lopez de la Serda was married twice, firstly to Ana de Lozanoand then to
Fabiana de Luevana on 9 August 1682 in Aguascalientes
Heres a quick sumary of the record:
"En la Villa de Aguascalientes en nueve dias del mes de agosotode
1682.....Geronimo Lopez biudo de Ana Lozano....vecino delpueblo de
Teocaltiche, con permiso de su parroche? AntonioVillegas con Fabiana de
Luevano, esp. hixa lexitima de Juande Luevano, ya difunto y Maria de
Alvarado.
It appears Geronimo's parents are not listed because he was widowedand
usually the priest would only list the parents on the first marriage.We need
to find Ana's record with Geronimo.
I figure he is a son of Juan Lopez de la Serda and Maria de Vielmabut we
need evidence, it does appear all the early Serdas come fromJuan who was a
son of Luis Lopez de la Serda and Melchora de los Reyes.
Regards,Daniel

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

Hi Paul, what I know is that all the Serdas come from Luis Lopez de la Serdanot sure if he was born in Mexico or Spain but he was Spanish that much Iknow. Juan Lopez de la Serda married Maria de Vielma in Aguascalientesso all the Teocaltiche-Aguascalientes Serda come from this union. Based onthe timeline he is likely a son of Juan, but evidence is needed, he shouldbe at least a grandson of Luis.
Daniel

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

Daniel,

Based on your research, about when was Luis Born? Did he have any siblings?

Paul Gomez
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Patty Hoyos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano
Sent: Apr 7, 2010 10:18 PM

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

He should have been born ca. 1625 or so in New Spain (I know this helps :)?)or Spain, not too sure. Im starting to wonder if Luis was Lopez de la Serdaor just de la Serda. I found a De la Serda married to Sebastiana Lopezand wonder if this is where the last name formed?

Regards,Daniel

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: paul.gomez@verizon.net
> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:36:14 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano
>
> Daniel,
>
> Based on your research, about when was Luis Born? Did he have any siblings?
>
> Paul Gomez
> ------Original Message------
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: Patty Hoyos
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano
> Sent: Apr 7, 2010 10:18 PM
>
>
> Hi Paul, what I know is that all the Serdas come from Luis Lopez de la Serdanot sure if he was born in Mexico or Spain but he was Spanish that much Iknow. Juan Lopez de la Serda married Maria de Vielma in Aguascalientesso all the Teocaltiche-Aguascalientes Serda come from this union. Based onthe timeline he is likely a son of Juan, but evidence is needed, he shouldbe at least a grandson of Luis.
> Daniel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

The de la cerda line did not start with just any lopez. It started with a lopez ramirez. The ramirez pops up every once in while.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 18:14:21
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Regards,Daniel

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

This is the record I believe started the Lopez de la Serda, Im debating if this is the sameNicolas de la Serda who married Maria de Vielma 30 Sep 1652, I have only found onechild for Nicolas and Maria who is Juan baptized 5 April 1654 in Aguasclaientes, so im notsure if Maria died then Nicolas remarried to this Sebastiana Lopez. Does anyone have this record, Im might have to order this since it pertains to my direct line. -Daniel

SEBASTA. LOPESPedigree Female FamilyEvent(s):Birth: Christening: Death: Burial: Marriages: Spouse: NICOLAS DE LA SERDAFamily Marriage: 27 FEB 1658 Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, MexicoMessages:Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.Source Information:Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type: M602486 1637 - 1669 0639754 Film NONE Sheet: 00

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 01:26:59 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano
>
> The de la cerda line did not start with just any lopez. It started with a lopez ramirez. The ramirez pops up every once in while.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 18:14:21
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano
>
>
> He should have been born ca. 1625 or so in New Spain (I know this helps :)?)or Spain, not too sure. Im starting to wonder if Luis was Lopez de la Serdaor just de la Serda. I found a De la Serda married to Sebastiana Lopezand wonder if this is where the last name formed?
>
> Regards,Daniel
>
>
>
>
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: paul.gomez@verizon.net
>> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:36:14 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano
>>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> Based on your research, about when was Luis Born? Did he have any siblings?
>>
>> Paul Gomez
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
>> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> To: Patty Hoyos
>> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano
>> Sent: Apr 7, 2010 10:18 PM
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul, what I know is that all the Serdas come from Luis Lopez de la Serdanot sure if he was born in Mexico or Spain but he was Spanish that much Iknow. Juan Lopez de la Serda married Maria de Vielma in Aguascalientesso all the Teocaltiche-Aguascalientes Serda come from this union. Based onthe timeline he is likely a son of Juan, but evidence is needed, he shouldbe at least a grandson of Luis.
>> Daniel
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

I was wrong I just checked and Lopez de la Serda could have not possibily have started with Nicolas de la Serdaand Sebastiana Lopez. This name had been used as early as 1575 or so. In the book Genealogia de Nochistlanthe author states that Josepha Lopez de la Serda was daughter of Agustin Lopez de la Serda and Lucia Rodriguezde Victoria according to private email with Mary Lou Montagna. Agustin was son of Francisco Lopez de la Serdaand Francisca de los Angeles, who were born ca. 1575.
Daniel

Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

Comment

Does this mean that mygenes200@yahoo.com was correct in an earlier e-mail on
this subject?

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
Mendez de Camino
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:47 PM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jeronimo Lopez de la Serna = Ana Losano

I was wrong I just checked and Lopez de la Serda could have not possibily
have started with Nicolas de la Serdaand Sebastiana Lopez. This name had
been used as early as 1575 or so. In the book Genealogia de Nochistlanthe
author states that Josepha Lopez de la Serda was daughter of Agustin Lopez
de la Serda and Lucia Rodriguezde Victoria according to private email with
Mary Lou Montagna. Agustin was son of Francisco Lopez de la Serdaand
Francisca de los Angeles, who were born ca. 1575.
Daniel

Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

I live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is about 60 miles east of L.A. and is
right next to the Ontario International Airport (ONT). The ONT is much more
easily accessible than LAX.

Comments

Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA

Comment

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

________________________________
From: Deena Ortiz
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:28:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA

I live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is about 60 miles east of L.A. and is
right next to the Ontario International Airport (ONT). The ONT is much more
easily accessible than LAX. Rancho Cucamonga is also central to all of
southern California. There are a few hotels in the city, all of which are
very nice, but the one I work with for the education seminars I host charges
a discounted rate of $79 plus taxes per night; it is six miles from the ONT
and does have a shuttle to the airport.
Depending on the size of the group, we can meet in a home, or I have access
to a very nice facility that charges $16 per hour for a room that holds
about 40. Or more for a larger room.
~Deena~

There were a number of people who were interested in attending, but for
various reasons were not able to. Many of those interested parties are from
the Los Angeles, CA area and have expressed an interest in having the next
conference there. We are more than willing to consider holding the 2011
Conference in the Los Angeles area, but to do so would require a resident of
that area to help us secure a location and help with the logistics. I want
to ask any of you living in the Los Angeles area if you would be willing to
undertake that responsibility? Please let me know ASAP because we'd like to
begin planning as early as possible. I would also like to get an idea of the
number of people interested in attending and/or being a Speaker. It will
most likely be held n April or May 2011.

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Hubieron varias personas que estaban interesadas en atender, pero por alg?n
motivo u otro no pudieron. Muchos de ellos radican en el area de Los
Angeles, CA y han expresado inter?s en que la prox?ma Conferencia se realize
en el area de Los Angeles. Para poder satisfacer esta petici?n
necesitariamos que alg?n residente de esa area nos ayudara encontrar el
lugar y con todas las log?sticas necesarias para el evento. Hay alguien que
este dispuesto a hacerse cargo de esta responsabilidad? Por favor
comuniquense conmigo lo mas pronto posible. Tambien me gustaria saber a
cuantos de Ustedes les gustaria atender y/o ser oradores. Lo mas probable
es que el proximo a?o va a ser en Abril o Mayo de 2011.

Maria Cortez

Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

Comment

I would love to buy the book now. How much? isn't it supposed to be a set of books?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 08:15:31
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society
Conference in LA

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

Comment

The book is volumes one and two. The price is going to be very reasonable. I do not know exactly until they notify me from Tepatitlan. I will not make a dime in the transaction.

________________________________
From: "mygenes2000@yahoo.com"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 8:44:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

I would love to buy the book now. How much? isn't it supposed to be a set of books?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 08:15:31
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society
Conference in LA

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

Comment

Juan Ramon,

Me Too!!

Thanks,
Alicia

________________________________
From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 8:48:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

The book is volumes one and two. The price is going to be very reasonable. I do not know exactly until they notify me from Tepatitlan. I will not make a dime in the transaction.

I would love to buy the book now. How much? isn't it supposed to be a set of books?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 08:15:31
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society
Conference in LA

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Juan Ramon \ Books

Comment

Hi Juan, I'd be interested in purchasing the books as well, please put me down for a set.

Robert Gonzalez~

Juan Ramon \ Books

Comment

Hi Juan, I'd be interested in purchasing the books as well, please put me down for a set.

Robert Gonzalez~

Juan Ramon \ Books

Comment

Robert, I have the books. Let me know how many you want.

Thank you

Juan Ramon Alvarez

________________________________
From: "gandalf3.1@netzero.com"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 10:19:53 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan Ramon \ Books

Hi Juan, I'd be interested in purchasing the books as well, please put me down for a set.

Robert Gonzalez~

Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

Comment

Alicia, I have the books with me. Let me know how many you want.

Juan Ramon Alvarez

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 9:40:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

Juan Ramon,

Me Too!!

Thanks,
Alicia

The book is volumes one and two. The price is going to be very reasonable. I do not know exactly until they notify me from Tepatitlan. I will not make a dime in the transaction.

I would love to buy the book now. How much? isn't it supposed to be a set of books?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 08:15:31
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society
Conference in LA

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Buying And Selling: Was - Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical So

Comment

I would like to remind everyone that I've asked that there be No More
Buying and Selling in the group unless approved by one of the
moderators. I know it will take a few REMINDERS to get this message
across so be patient as I send out those messages.

In the future just send an email to moderator@nuestrosranchos.org if you
would like to sell anything on the group and send either a subject line
of a message thread that is relevant to your offer to sell or just give
the reason why you think what you are selling is on topic of the groups
focus. IF I had received a request to post Juan's message I would have
approved it BUT I would have strongly suggested that Juan add the
following sentence to his message, "If anyone is interested PLEASE do
not contact me via the list but rather email me PRIVATELY at Juan Ramón
Alvarez "

In the future if you are interested in purchasing anything that has been
sent out via the group email distribution list please reply DIRECTLY to
that person and NOT to the list. There is no need for all 400+ members
to know you want one of the books.

Please help this new policy be firmly established, your cooperation
would be appreciated.

joseph

======================

Juan Ramón Alvarez wrote:
> Attn Deena Ortiz
>
> My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the
meeting in Cucamonga.
>
> For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños
de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any
body interested in buying it.
>
> Thank you
>
> Juan Ramón Alvarez
> (424) 477-4485
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Deena Ortiz
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:28:13 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical
Society Conference in LA
>
> I live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is about 60 miles east of L.A. and is
> right next to the Ontario International Airport (ONT). The ONT is
much more
> easily accessible than LAX. Rancho Cucamonga is also central to all of
> southern California. There are a few hotels in the city, all of
which are
> very nice, but the one I work with for the education seminars I host
charges
> a discounted rate of $79 plus taxes per night; it is six miles from
the ONT
> and does have a shuttle to the airport.
> Depending on the size of the group, we can meet in a home, or I have
access
> to a very nice facility that charges $16 per hour for a room that holds
> about 40. Or more for a larger room.
> ~Deena~
>
>
> There were a number of people who were interested in attending, but for
> various reasons were not able to. Many of those interested parties
are from
> the Los Angeles, CA area and have expressed an interest in having the
next
> conference there. We are more than willing to consider holding the 2011
> Conference in the Los Angeles area, but to do so would require a
resident of
> that area to help us secure a location and help with the logistics.
I want
> to ask any of you living in the Los Angeles area if you would be
willing to
> undertake that responsibility? Please let me know ASAP because we'd
like to
> begin planning as early as possible. I would also like to get an idea
of the
> number of people interested in attending and/or being a Speaker. It will
> most likely be held n April or May 2011.
>

Retonos

Comment

Hello Dear Group,
Over the past couple of years members have citied and mentioned "Retonos de Espana". I'm not surprised there's great interest in acquiring the books. However, I've never really gotten a good idea as to the contents and/or format of the books. Could someone please give us novices a quick who, what, when, and where is covered within? Is it specificly revelant to all of us, or only a subgroup? Since attending a conference in CA is out of the question, I'd like to know if this book could be a good resource. Thanks so much for your expertise, Alice BB

--- On Thu, 4/1/10, Juan Ramón Alvarez wrote:

From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 3:15 PM

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Retonos

Comment

Mariano's work is relevant To all of us as I feel that he and the late Jaime holcombe have been the most renowned genealogists of nueva galicia. Any time you can get any work done by these two you should study it.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Alice Blake
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:03:16
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos

--- On Thu, 4/1/10, Juan Ramón Alvarez wrote:

From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 3:15 PM

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Retonos

Comment

Good Evening All,
I don't doubt it is something worth reading, I wanted to know if the book is written in narrative form, or like an encyclopedia resource, or is it about genealogical methodology? Does it cover a certain region and time in Nueva Galicia? I'd really like to know more as it is highly sought after and often referred to. Thanks again, Alice
--- On Fri, 4/2/10, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:

From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 3:20 AM

-----Original Message-----
From: Alice Blake
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:03:16
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos

--- On Thu, 4/1/10, Juan Ramón Alvarez wrote:

From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 3:15 PM

Attn Deena Ortiz

My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.

For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.

Thank you

Juan Ramón Alvarez
(424) 477-4485

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Retonos

Comment

I agree with Alice.

It's a very simple question regarding these books. Before I buy something myself, I at least want to know what it is that I'm buying.

I guess I've been burned too many times in the past.

Jose Carlos de Leon

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:57:11 -0700
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
> To post, send email to:
> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> ------------------------------

Retonos

Comment

It basically covers the history of Los Altos, and the european families thatcolonized and settled with their descendants, as we know heavy intermarriage!There charts etc, It is worth reading if your of alteno descent! Not only Los Altosbut Altenos also spilled into Aguascalientes, Zacatcas, Mexico City, Michoacan,and Guanajuato also the rest of Jalisco.
Regards,Daniel

> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:57:11 -0700
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>
> Good Evening All,
> I don't doubt it is something worth reading, I wanted to know if the book is written in narrative form, or like an encyclopedia resource, or is it about genealogical methodology? Does it cover a certain region and time in Nueva Galicia? I'd really like to know more as it is highly sought after and often referred to. Thanks again, Alice
> --- On Fri, 4/2/10, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 3:20 AM
>
>
> Mariano's work is relevant To all of us as I feel that he and the late Jaime holcombe have been the most renowned genealogists of nueva galicia. Any time you can get any work done by these two you should study it.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alice Blake
> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:03:16
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>
> Hello Dear Group,
> Over the past couple of years members have citied and mentioned "Retonos de Espana". I'm not surprised there's great interest in acquiring the books. However, I've never really gotten a good idea as to the contents and/or format of the books. Could someone please give us novices a quick who, what, when, and where is covered within? Is it specificly revelant to all of us, or only a subgroup? Since attending a conference in CA is out of the question, I'd like to know if this book could be a good resource. Thanks so much for your expertise, Alice BB
>
>
> --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Juan Ramón Alvarez wrote:
>
>
> From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 3:15 PM
>
>
> Attn Deena Ortiz
>
> My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.
>
> For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.
>
> Thank you
>
> Juan Ramón Alvarez
> (424) 477-4485
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Deena Ortiz
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:28:13 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
>
> I live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is about 60 miles east of L.A. and is
> right next to the Ontario International Airport (ONT). The ONT is much more
> easily accessible than LAX. Rancho Cucamonga is also central to all of
> southern California. There are a few hotels in the city, all of which are
> very nice, but the one I work with for the education seminars I host charges
> a discounted rate of $79 plus taxes per night; it is six miles from the ONT
> and does have a shuttle to the airport.
> Depending on the size of the group, we can meet in a home, or I have access
> to a very nice facility that charges $16 per hour for a room that holds
> about 40. Or more for a larger room.
> ~Deena~
>
>
> There were a number of people who were interested in attending, but for
> various reasons were not able to. Many of those interested parties are from
> the Los Angeles, CA area and have expressed an interest in having the next
> conference there. We are more than willing to consider holding the 2011
> Conference in the Los Angeles area, but to do so would require a resident of
> that area to help us secure a location and help with the logistics. I want
> to ask any of you living in the Los Angeles area if you would be willing to
> undertake that responsibility? Please let me know ASAP because we'd like to
> begin planning as early as possible. I would also like to get an idea of the
> number of people interested in attending and/or being a Speaker. It will
> most likely be held n April or May 2011.
>
> En Espa?ol:
>
> Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
> incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
> P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.
>
> Hubieron varias personas que estaban interesadas en atender, pero por alg?n
> motivo u otro no pudieron. Muchos de ellos radican en el area de Los
> Angeles, CA y han expresado inter?s en que la prox?ma Conferencia se realize
> en el area de Los Angeles. Para poder satisfacer esta petici?n
> necesitariamos que alg?n residente de esa area nos ayudara encontrar el
> lugar y con todas las log?sticas necesarias para el evento. Hay alguien que
> este dispuesto a hacerse cargo de esta responsabilidad? Por favor
> comuniquense conmigo lo mas pronto posible. Tambien me gustaria saber a
> cuantos de Ustedes les gustaria atender y/o ser oradores. Lo mas probable
> es que el proximo a?o va a ser en Abril o Mayo de 2011.
>
> Maria Cortez

Retonos

Comment

So, it's focus is on Los Altos families?! Were'nt there other Spanish families already in the neighboring states prior to their arrival in Aguas, Zac, etc? And if so, are these other families also researched in the book, or only if they married into Los Altos families? What time period does the book cover?

On Fri, 4/2/10, Daniel Mendez de Camino wrote:

From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 4:13 AM

Retonos

Comment

These "oligarchies" as stated in the book intermarried in Los Altos, then they started marrying theneigboring aristocracy, like Claudia stated, Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, Guanajuato, and Michoacan.It is crazy to think most people in Nueva Galicia are related but for the most part it is true, the Spanish families had very tight intermarriage and occasionally would have an "external" spanishline not from Los Altos or the alteno family. To think that I can be descendant of the same man25 times and from all 13 kids is a crazy fact! Only will you find this in Los Altos, ha ha. I have only been doing research for almost 6 years.
Regards,Daniel
> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:15:05 -0700
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>
> So, it's focus is on Los Altos families?! Were'nt there other Spanish families already in the neighboring states prior to their arrival in Aguas, Zac, etc? And if so, are these other families also researched in the book, or only if they married into Los Altos families? What time period does the book cover?
>
>
>
> On Fri, 4/2/10, Daniel Mendez de Camino wrote:
>
>
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 4:13 AM
>
>
>
> It basically covers the history of Los Altos, and the european families thatcolonized and settled with their descendants, as we know heavy intermarriage!There charts etc, It is worth reading if your of alteno descent! Not only Los Altosbut Altenos also spilled into Aguascalientes, Zacatcas, Mexico City, Michoacan,and Guanajuato also the rest of Jalisco.
> Regards,Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:57:11 -0700
>> From: alicebb@att.net
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>>
>> Good Evening All,
>> I don't doubt it is something worth reading, I wanted to know if the book is written in narrative form, or like an encyclopedia resource, or is it about genealogical methodology? Does it cover a certain region and time in Nueva Galicia? I'd really like to know more as it is highly sought after and often referred to. Thanks again, Alice
>> --- On Fri, 4/2/10, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 3:20 AM
>>
>>
>> Mariano's work is relevant To all of us as I feel that he and the late Jaime holcombe have been the most renowned genealogists of nueva galicia. Any time you can get any work done by these two you should study it.
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alice Blake
>> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:03:16
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>>
>> Hello Dear Group,
>> Over the past couple of years members have citied and mentioned "Retonos de Espana". I'm not surprised there's great interest in acquiring the books. However, I've never really gotten a good idea as to the contents and/or format of the books. Could someone please give us novices a quick who, what, when, and where is covered within? Is it specificly revelant to all of us, or only a subgroup? Since attending a conference in CA is out of the question, I'd like to know if this book could be a good resource. Thanks so much for your expertise, Alice BB
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Juan Ramón Alvarez wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 3:15 PM
>>
>>
>> Attn Deena Ortiz
>>
>> My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.
>>
>> For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Juan Ramón Alvarez
>> (424) 477-4485
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Deena Ortiz
>> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:28:13 PM
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
>>
>> I live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is about 60 miles east of L.A. and is
>> right next to the Ontario International Airport (ONT). The ONT is much more
>> easily accessible than LAX. Rancho Cucamonga is also central to all of
>> southern California. There are a few hotels in the city, all of which are
>> very nice, but the one I work with for the education seminars I host charges
>> a discounted rate of $79 plus taxes per night; it is six miles from the ONT
>> and does have a shuttle to the airport.
>> Depending on the size of the group, we can meet in a home, or I have access
>> to a very nice facility that charges $16 per hour for a room that holds
>> about 40. Or more for a larger room.
>> ~Deena~
>>
>>
>> There were a number of people who were interested in attending, but for
>> various reasons were not able to. Many of those interested parties are from
>> the Los Angeles, CA area and have expressed an interest in having the next
>> conference there. We are more than willing to consider holding the 2011
>> Conference in the Los Angeles area, but to do so would require a resident of
>> that area to help us secure a location and help with the logistics. I want
>> to ask any of you living in the Los Angeles area if you would be willing to
>> undertake that responsibility? Please let me know ASAP because we'd like to
>> begin planning as early as possible. I would also like to get an idea of the
>> number of people interested in attending and/or being a Speaker. It will
>> most likely be held n April or May 2011.
>>
>> En Espa?ol:
>>
>> Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
>> incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
>> P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.
>>
>> Hubieron varias personas que estaban interesadas en atender, pero por alg?n
>> motivo u otro no pudieron. Muchos de ellos radican en el area de Los
>> Angeles, CA y han expresado inter?s en que la prox?ma Conferencia se realize
>> en el area de Los Angeles. Para poder satisfacer esta petici?n
>> necesitariamos que alg?n residente de esa area nos ayudara encontrar el
>> lugar y con todas las log?sticas necesarias para el evento. Hay alguien que
>> este dispuesto a hacerse cargo de esta responsabilidad? Por favor
>> comuniquense conmigo lo mas pronto posible. Tambien me gustaria saber a
>> cuantos de Ustedes les gustaria atender y/o ser oradores. Lo mas probable
>> es que el proximo a?o va a ser en Abril o Mayo de 2011.
>>
>> Maria Cortez

Retonos

Comment

Not only in los altos, the sons of alfonso XI of castilla intermarried so much in spain that we descend from at least 4 of his sons, and many of us from 5 of his sons, many, many, many, times over.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 00:01:59
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos

These "oligarchies" as stated in the book intermarried in Los Altos, then they started marrying theneigboring aristocracy, like Claudia stated, Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, Guanajuato, and Michoacan.It is crazy to think most people in Nueva Galicia are related but for the most part it is true, the Spanish families had very tight intermarriage and occasionally would have an "external" spanishline not from Los Altos or the alteno family. To think that I can be descendant of the same man25 times and from all 13 kids is a crazy fact! Only will you find this in Los Altos, ha ha. I have only been doing research for almost 6 years.
Regards,Daniel
> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:15:05 -0700
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>
> So, it's focus is on Los Altos families?! Were'nt there other Spanish families already in the neighboring states prior to their arrival in Aguas, Zac, etc? And if so, are these other families also researched in the book, or only if they married into Los Altos families? What time period does the book cover?
>
>
>
> On Fri, 4/2/10, Daniel Mendez de Camino wrote:
>
>
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 4:13 AM
>
>
>
> It basically covers the history of Los Altos, and the european families thatcolonized and settled with their descendants, as we know heavy intermarriage!There charts etc, It is worth reading if your of alteno descent! Not only Los Altosbut Altenos also spilled into Aguascalientes, Zacatcas, Mexico City, Michoacan,and Guanajuato also the rest of Jalisco.
> Regards,Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:57:11 -0700
>> From: alicebb@att.net
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>>
>> Good Evening All,
>> I don't doubt it is something worth reading, I wanted to know if the book is written in narrative form, or like an encyclopedia resource, or is it about genealogical methodology? Does it cover a certain region and time in Nueva Galicia? I'd really like to know more as it is highly sought after and often referred to. Thanks again, Alice
>> --- On Fri, 4/2/10, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 3:20 AM
>>
>>
>> Mariano's work is relevant To all of us as I feel that he and the late Jaime holcombe have been the most renowned genealogists of nueva galicia. Any time you can get any work done by these two you should study it.
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alice Blake
>> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:03:16
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos
>>
>> Hello Dear Group,
>> Over the past couple of years members have citied and mentioned "Retonos de Espana". I'm not surprised there's great interest in acquiring the books. However, I've never really gotten a good idea as to the contents and/or format of the books. Could someone please give us novices a quick who, what, when, and where is covered within? Is it specificly revelant to all of us, or only a subgroup? Since attending a conference in CA is out of the question, I'd like to know if this book could be a good resource. Thanks so much for your expertise, Alice BB
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Juan Ramón Alvarez wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Juan Ramón Alvarez
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 3:15 PM
>>
>>
>> Attn Deena Ortiz
>>
>> My name is Juan Ramón Alvarez. I am interested in attending the meeting in Cucamonga.
>>
>> For your information, I will have with me at least 20 books "Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia" from Doctor Mariano González Leal for any body interested in buying it.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Juan Ramón Alvarez
>> (424) 477-4485
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Deena Ortiz
>> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 3:28:13 PM
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference in LA
>>
>> I live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is about 60 miles east of L.A. and is
>> right next to the Ontario International Airport (ONT). The ONT is much more
>> easily accessible than LAX. Rancho Cucamonga is also central to all of
>> southern California. There are a few hotels in the city, all of which are
>> very nice, but the one I work with for the education seminars I host charges
>> a discounted rate of $79 plus taxes per night; it is six miles from the ONT
>> and does have a shuttle to the airport.
>> Depending on the size of the group, we can meet in a home, or I have access
>> to a very nice facility that charges $16 per hour for a room that holds
>> about 40. Or more for a larger room.
>> ~Deena~
>>
>>
>> There were a number of people who were interested in attending, but for
>> various reasons were not able to. Many of those interested parties are from
>> the Los Angeles, CA area and have expressed an interest in having the next
>> conference there. We are more than willing to consider holding the 2011
>> Conference in the Los Angeles area, but to do so would require a resident of
>> that area to help us secure a location and help with the logistics. I want
>> to ask any of you living in the Los Angeles area if you would be willing to
>> undertake that responsibility? Please let me know ASAP because we'd like to
>> begin planning as early as possible. I would also like to get an idea of the
>> number of people interested in attending and/or being a Speaker. It will
>> most likely be held n April or May 2011.
>>
>> En Espa?ol:
>>
>> Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
>> incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
>> P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.
>>
>> Hubieron varias personas que estaban interesadas en atender, pero por alg?n
>> motivo u otro no pudieron. Muchos de ellos radican en el area de Los
>> Angeles, CA y han expresado inter?s en que la prox?ma Conferencia se realize
>> en el area de Los Angeles. Para poder satisfacer esta petici?n
>> necesitariamos que alg?n residente de esa area nos ayudara encontrar el
>> lugar y con todas las log?sticas necesarias para el evento. Hay alguien que
>> este dispuesto a hacerse cargo de esta responsabilidad? Por favor
>> comuniquense conmigo lo mas pronto posible. Tambien me gustaria saber a
>> cuantos de Ustedes les gustaria atender y/o ser oradores. Lo mas probable
>> es que el proximo a?o va a ser en Abril o Mayo de 2011.
>>
>> Maria Cortez

Retonos Contents (tomo II)

Comment

In addition to having a couple dozen pedigree tables, TOMO II of Retoños discusses:

Aceves, Alba, Alcala y mendoza, Aldrete, Alvarez de Castillo, Alvarez - Tostado, Anava, Anda-Altamirano, Aranda, Ascencio de Leon, Azuela de San Pelayo, Camacho - Riquelme, Camarena, Casillas y Cabrera, Diaz del Castillo, Diaz - Varela, Diaz de Sandi, Escoto - Tovar, Fernandez de Palos, Fernandez de Rueda, Flores-Alatorre, Franco de la Cueva, France de Paredes, Gallegos, Garcia de Hemrosillo and Gomez de Espejo.

John Schmal

Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical SocietyConference in LA

Comment

I too would like to help organize but my job would interfere in april may or june. I am a teacher and I find that these months and september are. Very busy. I would help with the planning and present if it was held in the middle of the summer, say July. More people would be able to come, far more than 40. How many people went to this years conference? I live in West los angeles and feel that is a convenient place to host the conference.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Deena Ortiz"
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:28:13
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Possible Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society
Conference in LA

En Espa?ol:

Nuestra primera Conferencia fu? un gran exito, gracias a los esfuerzos
incansables de Hely Sparkman, y la cooperaci?n de Alicia Carrillo, Mart?n
P?rez, Kitty Cort?z y los oradores excelentes.

Maria Cortez

Interlibrary loan and Nueva Galicia books

Forums

Genealogy Research

Seeing my e-mail inbox fill up with members not sure if they should purchase a book or inquiring to its content.....I have a suggestion.

Comments

Interlibrary loan and Nueva

Comment

Antonio

I wonder if the name "Nueva Galicia" (Jalisco) has something to do with the name of "Galicia" of Spain?

The history of Galicia, Spain is interesting because it is suppose to have Celtic Influence during ancient times.

[Nuestros Ranchos:For Rose] Interlibrary loan and Nueva Galicia

Comment

Hi Rose, could you talk about the book on the Romo-Guerra? I notice there is valuable informationbut have not been able to order the microfilm yet. How did you come across a copy of this book?Is Mariano stating that ALonso Lorenzo Guerra was Guerra-Romo de Vivar?
Regards,Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 06:22:47 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Interlibrary loan and Nueva Galicia books
>
> Seeing my e-mail inbox fill up with members not sure if they should purchase a book or inquiring to its content.....I have a suggestion.
>
> Take advantage of your local library. Many, many moons ago I borrowed Mariano Gonzalez Leal's book "Retoños De España En La Nueva Galicia" through interlibrary loan. In fact it was one of the first books I saw regarding Nueva Galicia. Since then I have used interlibrary loan when trying to find books out of print. I've copied what I needed and have never been disappointed.
>
> In these times where our pocket book is tight or a little lean, take advantage of the free service. Go to Google books, enter the author or title of the book you are looking for. When the book link pops up on the left hand side there is a link "find in library". That will direct to "WorldCat.org". WorldCat lists the book and in this case there is a copy in Mexico, Spain, Stanford in California, San Antonio, Tx and Princeton in NJ. Take this printout to your local library and fill out the form...sometimes I just give my copy of the print out to the librarian and they try to find a closer location who owns a copy.
>
> Another book I obtained through interlibrary loan a long time ago was "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia". The book came from U.C. Riverside, CA. So I got to see the book before Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton sold it to the general public.
>
> Also check out the LDS library catalog for books on microfilm. I know that Mariano's other book regarding the Romo de Vivar's and Guerra family is available....since I have also copies of it.
>
> Rose
>
>
>
>

Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Forums

Genealogy Research

I am seeking information about my 8th maternal great grandparents. They were married on 02 Sep 1662 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.

Comments

Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

Paul,

I've identified 10 children for this couple. They were all baptized at "Parroquia de la Asuncion de Aguascalientes" except for one (Juana) which seems to be missing in the books. Here is the information I have in my database:

01. Juana, who married Tomas Lopez de la Cerda 25 Jun 1695 in Aguascalientes. She was buried 28 Jan 1734 also in Aguascalientes.
02. Isabel, baptized 03 Aug 1665.
03. Theresa, bapt. 5 Nov 1666.
04. Anna, bapt. 12 Jun 1668.
05. Ines, bapt. 22 Dec 1669.
06. Pedro ("Po"), bapt. 11 Feb 1674. He was buried 13 Feb 1674.
07. Manuel, bapt. 29 Aug 1675.
08. Joseph, bapt. 03 Apr 1679.
09. Onofre, bapt. 21 Feb 1683.
10. Manuel (second with that name) bapt. 03 Aug 1692.

I don't know which children reached adulthood except for Juana, but the first Manuel (b.1675) probably died young, and Pedro died a few days after he was born. Two of these children, Isabel and Manuel, appear in the records as "mestizos" and one, Pedro, as "morisco". I have no other information about Juan de Soto and Sebastiana de Esqueda. Which of these children is your ancestor?

Rgds.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:24 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

I am seeking information about my 8th maternal great grandparents. They were married on 02 Sep 1662 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. They had 7 children: Teressa, Ana, Ines, Manuel, Joseph, Onofre, and "Po"?

Thank you.

Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

Hello Bill,

Assuming that these Children's parents were Juan de Soto and Sebastiana de
Esqueda, they would be my 5X Great Aunts and Uncles.

The race designation will always be subject to debate, since the priest
ultimately determined what was included in the Baptismal Record.

At any rate, "thank you" for your response.

Paul Gomez

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Figueroa
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 8:42 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Paul,

I've identified 10 children for this couple. They were all baptized at
"Parroquia de la Asuncion de Aguascalientes" except for one (Juana) which
seems to be missing in the books. Here is the information I have in my
database:

01. Juana, who married Tomas Lopez de la Cerda 25 Jun 1695 in
Aguascalientes. She was buried 28 Jan 1734 also in Aguascalientes.
02. Isabel, baptized 03 Aug 1665.
03. Theresa, bapt. 5 Nov 1666.
04. Anna, bapt. 12 Jun 1668.
05. Ines, bapt. 22 Dec 1669.
06. Pedro ("Po"), bapt. 11 Feb 1674. He was buried 13 Feb 1674.
07. Manuel, bapt. 29 Aug 1675.
08. Joseph, bapt. 03 Apr 1679.
09. Onofre, bapt. 21 Feb 1683.
10. Manuel (second with that name) bapt. 03 Aug 1692.

I don't know which children reached adulthood except for Juana, but the
first Manuel (b.1675) probably died young, and Pedro died a few days after
he was born. Two of these children, Isabel and Manuel, appear in the
records as "mestizos" and one, Pedro, as "morisco". I have no other
information about Juan de Soto and Sebastiana de Esqueda. Which of these
children is your ancestor?

Rgds.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:24 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

I am seeking information about my 8th maternal great grandparents. They
were married on 02 Sep 1662 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. They
had 7 children: Teressa, Ana, Ines, Manuel, Joseph, Onofre, and "Po"?

Thank you.

Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

Hello Bill (again),

I misspoke. It should be "8X"; not "5X". (I mistakenly had removed myself
from the "Home Person" in my Family Tree Maker program.)

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Paul J
Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:01 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Hello Bill,

Assuming that these Children's parents were Juan de Soto and Sebastiana de
Esqueda, they would be my 5X Great Aunts and Uncles.

The race designation will always be subject to debate, since the priest
ultimately determined what was included in the Baptismal Record.

At any rate, "thank you" for your response.

Paul Gomez

Paul,

I've identified 10 children for this couple. They were all baptized at
"Parroquia de la Asuncion de Aguascalientes" except for one (Juana) which
seems to be missing in the books. Here is the information I have in my
database:

01. Juana, who married Tomas Lopez de la Cerda 25 Jun 1695 in
Aguascalientes. She was buried 28 Jan 1734 also in Aguascalientes.
02. Isabel, baptized 03 Aug 1665.
03. Theresa, bapt. 5 Nov 1666.
04. Anna, bapt. 12 Jun 1668.
05. Ines, bapt. 22 Dec 1669.
06. Pedro ("Po"), bapt. 11 Feb 1674. He was buried 13 Feb 1674.
07. Manuel, bapt. 29 Aug 1675.
08. Joseph, bapt. 03 Apr 1679.
09. Onofre, bapt. 21 Feb 1683.
10. Manuel (second with that name) bapt. 03 Aug 1692.

I don't know which children reached adulthood except for Juana, but the
first Manuel (b.1675) probably died young, and Pedro died a few days after
he was born. Two of these children, Isabel and Manuel, appear in the
records as "mestizos" and one, Pedro, as "morisco". I have no other
information about Juan de Soto and Sebastiana de Esqueda. Which of these
children is your ancestor?

Rgds.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:24 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

I am seeking information about my 8th maternal great grandparents. They
were married on 02 Sep 1662 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. They
had 7 children: Teressa, Ana, Ines, Manuel, Joseph, Onofre, and "Po"?

Thank you.

Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

Hi Paul, I have this couple in my records, I have found a total of 11 kids. Iwas once told all the DE Soto descend from this couplle in our region of interest.But I was confused the latest Soto I have is Marcos de Soto who marriedJuliana Perez in Teocaltiche prob. ca. 1720. They had my ancestor Juan Basiliode Soto. Another point of interest Juan de Soto and Sebastiana Esqueda kidsare classified as different races, some are espanol, some morisco, it doesnt make sense.Plus my Marcos de Soto (b. ca. 1690) is espanol so maybe not all de Soto come from Juan?
Daniel

> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

Thank you for you quick response, Daniel. As you know race designation was
based purely on appearance, and the judgment of the priest, so it is very
possible that a priest equated "dark" with "mulata", for example, in the
case of the Soto's oldest child, Teressa, who was entered as "mulata" in her
baptismal. Perhaps, the other children were baptized by a different priest
than the one that officiated at Teressa's baptism; therefore, another reason
for the race designation differences.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
Mendez de Camino
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 11:53 AM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Hi Paul, I have this couple in my records, I have found a total of 11 kids.
Iwas once told all the DE Soto descend from this couplle in our region of
interest.But I was confused the latest Soto I have is Marcos de Soto who
marriedJuliana Perez in Teocaltiche prob. ca. 1720. They had my ancestor
Juan Basiliode Soto. Another point of interest Juan de Soto and Sebastiana
Esqueda kidsare classified as different races, some are espanol, some
morisco, it doesnt make sense.Plus my Marcos de Soto (b. ca. 1690) is
espanol so maybe not all de Soto come from Juan?
Daniel

> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

It depends on who was writing down the race. Some records. Many records were done by exact calculations. 1/8 indian and 7/8 white and you were classified as white or espanol again.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul J Gomez"
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:11:28
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
Mendez de Camino
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 11:53 AM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Hi Paul, I have this couple in my records, I have found a total of 11 kids.
Iwas once told all the DE Soto descend from this couplle in our region of
interest.But I was confused the latest Soto I have is Marcos de Soto who
marriedJuliana Perez in Teocaltiche prob. ca. 1720. They had my ancestor
Juan Basiliode Soto. Another point of interest Juan de Soto and Sebastiana
Esqueda kidsare classified as different races, some are espanol, some
morisco, it doesnt make sense.Plus my Marcos de Soto (b. ca. 1690) is
espanol so maybe not all de Soto come from Juan?
Daniel

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Racial designation WAS Juan de Soto = Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

In Luz Montejano Hilton's Sagrada Mitra, the dispensa of two of my
ancestors shows their consanguinity to each other and they're Espanol
all the way. In their only child's baptism notification, she's listed
with the same parents and grandparents as a meztiza. Go figure!
Marge:)

On Apr 6, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Paul J Gomez wrote:

Thank you for you quick response, Daniel. As you know race designation
was
based purely on appearance, and the judgment of the priest, so it is
very
possible that a priest equated "dark" with "mulata", for example, in the
case of the Soto's oldest child, Teressa, who was entered as "mulata"
in her
baptismal. Perhaps, the other children were baptized by a different
priest
than the one that officiated at Teressa's baptism; therefore, another
reason
for the race designation differences.

Racial designation WAS Juan de Soto =Sebastiana de Esqueda

Comment

One of The parents, or both, may have been both 7/8 white and therefore recorded as being "espanol", and the 1/8 may or may not be expressed in their child. Because of scarcity of espanolas, many of the conquistdores and encomenderos had relations with the indian population and had children.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Marge Vallazza
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:48:35
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Racial designation WAS Re: Juan de Soto =
Sebastiana de Esqueda

On Apr 6, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Paul J Gomez wrote:

Thank you for you quick response, Daniel. As you know race designation
was
based purely on appearance, and the judgment of the priest, so it is
very
possible that a priest equated "dark" with "mulata", for example, in the
case of the Soto's oldest child, Teressa, who was entered as "mulata"
in her
baptismal. Perhaps, the other children were baptized by a different
priest
than the one that officiated at Teressa's baptism; therefore, another
reason
for the race designation differences.

Beltran-Ramirez-Curiel / Flores-Alvares

Forums

Genealogy Research

I'm researching my ancestors, I am not an advanced geneologist by any means and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

FW: Beltran-Ramirez-Curiel / Flores-Alvares

Comment

I'm looking to zapotlanejo too...

you can download the PAF program here preference version 5 to read my file:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

after you go in the same page at "search" for me its better in advanced search in the IGI International Genealogical index.. use and play with words.. jose, maria, and combinations of family names and the "Jalisco" because if you put Maria Lomeli mariied....someone Banegas or Venegas... maybe the husbands name is not jose is Juan or other or.. use juan or Jose Banegas or Venegas.. and Will find juana or maria or gertrudes Lomeli.. you can do the pi o to have more names because there somethimes you have grandparents names but in the traditional you see.. the name Juan Margarito Sebastiano dela Cruz.. maybe the person you search use her third or second name

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start

Cristino or Crispin..certanly had other first name but in the pilot you can get his father..Jose Maria Curiel andFrancisca Ibarra shown with Ma Cristoma Ybarra and secundina..
Paula had a Twin.. francisco in my file you see.. Paula Venegas or Banegas was child of Valentin Vanegas and Leandra Navarro.. Valentin eas son of Juan de las Nueves Banegas and Maria Lomelin I put the sisters and brothers in the file.. but there is an other marriage Joseph Banegas with other lomelin.. thas not the Juan's...I use only the information you can confirmate..Leandra Navarroand Juana Maria or Donata Lopez..

you jump in to the two sites..open two windows..and is faster.. after you put..Vanegas-Navarro in the place of the mothers and father's name and you can putjose or maria because the system need a first name.. and if you find one brother or sister you acces to the batch number directly.. with the surname you will get all the venegas..living in that batch 1750-1770..for example...an if the batch is C602518....and you can play with the last number..C602517 or 16 or15,14,13,12.11 if you don't have nothing yo can use J or K
in the place or C J602517 for males J and K for girls..
I HOPE THIS CAN HELP YOU... one time you have the correct batch an film number you ask for a copy of the original document to get more information.. saludos Lety Reynoso excuse my English..

Con Hotmail siempre estás conectado con quien quieres

_________________________________________________________________
Prefiero un día sin coche que sin Messenger
www.vivirmessenger.com

Beltran

Comment

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=/eng/se…

I don't know if the above link will work, so I put the info below.

I do not know if this will help, but I found an Epifanio Beltran baptized May 9, 1874, in Zapotlanejo, Jalisco, Mexico

batch C603357 film 0218323

Parents:
EDOUVIGES BELTRAN
Francisca Navarro

Alternate spellings of this name: Veltran
Note the father is spelled Edouviges, I looked in the batched records for C603353, 54, 55, 56 and did not find any other Beltran or Veltran, but you may want to search these by hand. You may also want to look at the other batched records for Zapotlanejo, Jalisco.

If you order the above film, the baptism may or may not tell you where the parents are from. May also pay off to look at the marriages for Zapotlanejo for the 1870's

Maureen

Beltran-Ramirez-Curiel / Flores-Alvares

Comment

Aniceta Ramirez Curiel 19 apr 1875 cristened in Zapotlanejo hija de Tomas Ramirez y Ana Curiel ..Tomás Ramirez hijo de jose Maria Ramires y Josefa reynoso

Ana Curiel Hija de Cristino Curiel y Paula Venegas. Cristino hijo de Jose Maria Curiel y Francisca Ibarra---Paula Venegas hija de Valentin Venegas y Leandra Navarro . I'll..continue.. lety Reynoso

_________________________________________________________________
Prefiero un día sin coche que sin Messenger
www.vivirmessenger.com

Beltran-Ramirez-Curiel / Flores-Alvares

Comment

I'm sure Eduvijes Beltran is Eduviges Beltran Zamora,19 oct 1842 Santiago Tonala Jalisco son of Jose luis Beltran and maria Eusebia Zamora he and her brother Emeterio Beltran Zamora were in Zapotlanejo after Marriage..

read my file.. Lety Reynoso

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: as HOT as always
www.hotmailhotness.com.mx

Calling a 1800 number in Mexico

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

Can some one tell me how to call to Mexico if I have a 1800 number. Do I need to dial 01152-800-XXX-XXX I have tried so many ways and I can not get it right.

Thanks

Comments

Calling a 1800 number in Mexico

Comment

Toll free numbers don't normally work from outside the country as the receiver is paying the toll charges and most companies or individuals are not willing to pay international long distance rates for such calls and there are likely not the requisite conventions between telecom carriers in different countries for payment to be made for the call.

US 1800 numbers don't work if you try calling them from Mexico either.

You will likley have to somehow patch through a regular number in Mexico which can then dial the 800 Mexican number. Alternatively you will have to find a regular toll number for the company or individual.

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