Nuestros Ranchos Site

Daniel,

Thanks for all the valuable information you provide to everyone in the group.

Now in regards to your inquiry, I don't know if this will answer your question below but I recently bought this book from one of the nuestros ranchos members in Escondido Calif. The book is titled Cronica de la Provincia de Santiago de Xalisco, Escrita por. Fr. Nicolas Antonio De Ornelas Mendoza y Valdivia~ 1719-1722. He may be one of your relatives. The book was published in Guadalajara by the Instituto Jaliscience de Antropologia e Historia. INAH 1962.

Pages 59-63 refer to XUCHIPILA, year 1543. There is the following paragraph.

Después que dejó el capitán Juan Delgado le encomienda de el Teul, por sus achaques, la sirvió el capitán Miguel González, el mozo, y este se avenia con mucha amistad con los religiosos y con el encomendero de Xuchipila, que era el señor capitán Hernán de Flores, yerno de el licienciado Diego Pérez de la Torre: y con la ayuda de entreambos, cogieron corriente estas dos doctrinas. Estos mismos pidieron, para la mayor y más segura pacificación de los naturales, misioneros para Tlaltenango y Teocaltiche: y dice el R. P. Tello, que el año de mil quinientos y cuarenta y cuatro se comenzaron a administrar Tlaltenango, Teocaltiche y Xalostitlan por los religiosos que en estas tres partes puso la obediencia: y por haber entrado señores clerigos después a estas doctrinas, no hay memoria ni libros por donde conste quienes fueron. Se avecindaron en Xupichila los señores Flores y de la Torre, Reinosos, Renterias, Tellos de Orozco, Arias: que todos
son de noble sangre y han tenido amistad con los descendientes de el capitán Hernán Flores: de los cuales y otros, hay hasta teecientas personas de razón. Hay en esta doctrina y en los pueblos, Hospitales y cofradias de nuestra Señora de la Concepción fundadas por los religiosos.

As I understand this, Hernán de Flores was the son-in-law of the Honorable, Diego Pérez de la Torre. His children would have been de Flores, Perez de la Torre, if in fact this is the same family or families. I thought I would send this to you to see if it makes sense to you or if you think it might relate to your ancestors.

Regards,
Alicia,
San Jose, Calif.

________________________________
From: mendezdelcamino
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 2:03:24 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retoños de España Tomo II

Hello All I waondering where can I find or if anyone can do a lookup on the Flores de la Torre and Flores-Alatorre family! I want to know how Flores Alatorre changed from Flores de la Torre. Also, is it true the patriarch Juan López de Elizalde is "hijo legítimo de Miguel López de Elizalde y Leonor de Aberruza"? Many Thanks! -Daniel

Hola Daniel. I have found in old records pertaining to one of my ancestors, that the "Flores Alatorre" and "Flores de la Torre" surnames were used interchangeably. At least, this was the case 1794 and 1821 in Juchipila, Zacatecas.

Archival records pertaining to my 6th GG-father, Nicolas Flores, who served as a judicial official in Juchipila during those years, show both names were used in this period.

Good luck with the rest.

Claudia Reynoso

Jaime

Thank you for the reply. As you have concluded, I also think that Isabel Ramires and Isabel Esparza are the same person.

I looked in the IGI, doing a search for all children of Antonio and Isabel (without last names). In the period of interest, most are children of Isbael Ramires, and only one of Isabel Esparza (this is Luis de los Reyes), but that one fits right in with the others. There is also a child of Antonio de los Reyes and Isabel "Jamines," I did not have time to look at the record today, but I would not be surprised if this were a transcription error.

I've looked in the IGI for a marriage to Antonio de los Reyes and Isabel Ramires or Esparza, but did not find one.

I would appreciate it if you could send the jpg of the Information Matrimonial for Joseph de los Reyes and Beatriz de Medina (Thank you!). My e-mail is gpf13@aol.com.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

I have Antonio de los Reyes (I cant find him on the IGI for some reason) as son of Luís de los reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina. Luís' parents are Luís de Murguía and María de la Cruz. Juana's parents are uknown. -Daniel

I am third generation and so I had a mother, (father died when I was 3) who was fully Mexican-American, she only spoke English to her children, Spanish to her family and Spanglish with her friends.

Like my husband with the same experience-- we are 3rd and 4th generation, depending which side you count, our parents did not have any interest in Mexico. They were children of the Great Depression and served in World War II, some in WWI.

I will never understand why not.

When I was about 8 my father's birth certificate was taken out and I was thrilled, just thrilled to see this absolutely exotic name where my paternal grandfather was born: Teocaltiche, Jalisco. It took me until 1994 searching LDS records to find my grandfather's baptismal record.
Also, my maternal grandmother had for her era done an awful thing by deserting her husband, my natural grandfather in San Antonio Texas and getting a divorce. I always hated being the half-cousin and half niece. My step-grandfather(wonderful) was an elegant man from Guadalajara and a tailor by trade. I always felt the absence of my history.

I found my relatives in San Antonio and have visited and met my mother's cousins. Her three half-siblings all died before I could find them. Two within weeks of finding them. One sister died three days before my letter got to her home and children, who did not know about grandpa's first marriage or thought he had been married and widowed, so Alicia I was the skeleton that jumped out of the closet. Boo! I have not met them yet, but we correspond. I am not sure that most of them care to establish any relationship. But I am happy to have solved for me the mystery.

The final legend is of my maternal side, who served as servants to a shipping family. The two girls, formerly servants children)(Surname:Mares)a grandma and aunt were adopted by this family and settled in Merida,Yucatan. One of the girls married and settled in Pinos, Zacatecas into the Aguilar family who then married the son of the harp teacher Estevan Cubillos.

I have found the Aguilars still in Pinos. But the Cubillos seem to be lost and no one seems to have an interest in genealogy with this surname. I wonder if I will ever crack this one.
Sylvia Rodriguez Robles

Oh, yes, I forgot to add that genealogy enabled me to discover where
the policystic kidney disease entered our family in Scotland, Canada,
and the US. My mother's father and 2 of his brother's died of it.
Two of my mother's sisters had it and died of its consequences. My
aunt Margaret had eight kids, five had PKD but are still alive because
medical treatment is much better. My aunt Sheila's only child has it
and, although married, my cousin does not want children so as to not
pass this on to them. Blessedly, none of my sisters nor I have it. It
came in through my ancestress Margaret--my great-great-great
grandmother. I'd never have found where the PKD came in at earlier
because the records in Scotland weren't made available sooner than I
found them.:) Marge V.:)
On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me
think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I
just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Jonathan

I started doing genealogy when I was a child, only I didn't know
that's what I was doing. I was gathering information from the elders
in my father's family. I was the only child allowed to eat at the
grownups' dinner table because I kept quiet and didn't squirm around.
Then when I was a little older I asked questions specifically about
family and then quit cold turkey for years until I was in my 30s where
I did some oral interviews with my mother AND my father, separately.
Then in my 40s, I went whole hog (and having learned from my then-job
how to conduct data gathering, interviews, and citation techniques)
and learned a whole lot!!!!

Isn't it funny that someone (with the initials MLE :) ) with an
unusual surname (which I discovered is in my ancestry) wished for a
common surname, whereas, I, who had a super common Spanish surname
always loved my great-grandmother's surname of Saldivar, just because
it WAS so unusual. And it was THAT surname and the great
recordkeeping of the Mexicans that enabled me to unravel my family
history on my father's side. Genealogy is like putting together a
great big puzzle, a hobby I find very relaxing.

On my mother's side, I've discovered that ALL of my Scottish mother's
Great-great-grandparents were Irish and even though she was a 3rd
generation Scot, her true Scottish blood came through the ancestry of
her Irish-born mother. And much of this information was gathered
AFTER both my parents passed away...also, I think that God was
teaching me patience because had I tried to find this information
sooner than I did, it would not have been available to me. It hadn't
been released to the public then. Still, I would love to have shared
my findings with my parents. I'm the one who told my mother what HER
grandmother's maiden name was. I was named Margarita, a Spanish
version of my non-Hispanic mother's sister Margaret, who lived in
Canada and who I thought was mean and crabby. (Turned out I was
wrong, she ended up being a great person.) I knew Mom and Aunt
Margaret's grandmother's name was also Margaret but I didn't know
until I found a birth record that showed my great-grandmother was
named after her OWN grandmother. Now that I'm a grandmother and a
great-grandmother, I don't have anyone named after me, to my regret,
but at least, due to my genealogy recordings, I hope to not be
forgotten like so many of the ancestors I have uncovered. Even the
historical ones, like Juan de Onate, are relatively forgotten because
his name rarely comes up in history books anymore. That's pretty much
why I do genealogy. Marge Vallazza:)
On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me
think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I
just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Jonathan

Jonathan,

I started doing genealogy back in the early 80s when I used to take my mother to see her siblings in Los Angeles and in New Mexico. My father had passed 20 years before.

I used to listen to my mother and her siblings speak that New Mexican lingo that my father, who was from Zacatecas and spoke good Castellan, would so often criticize. My husband, descended from Altenos, also criticized their Spanish. Those "Manitos", as they called themselves, were a breed all their own. I discovered through my research that they were descended from Pueblo Indian tribes and Spaniards of hidden Jewish descent. I found a cousin who was a war captain for our tribe of Piro-Manso-Tewa. They didn't like the Mexicans "del otro lado" and vice-versa.

My mother had to learn to cook "Mexican" food when she moved to California. Her people had been isolated in the pueblos of New Mexico since the 1600s when they had been baptized and Hispanicized. I was able to trace their ancestry back to the early 1700s up until the time they were first baptized with Christian names and their real Indian names were not written down. They took the Spanish surnames of their godfathers. So that ends the trail for me on my mother's side.

I used to hear my mother and her siblings speak of their Tia Lauteria. Lauteria and other names sounded so strange to me. At first I used to get bored and leave the gathering and go to the nearest mall. Then, as I listened more to their "te acuerdas de" I started getting intrigued about their lives when they were growing up, so different from mine at the time. I wanted to know more. I got hooked. I started to ask my mother and aunt for as many of the names and relations of those in earlier generations as far back as they could remember. They remembered a lot, but my subsequent research showed they had gotten some info wrong. Mother has been gone since 1987, and my aunt is now 96. She is the only ones left.

Then I got interested in my father's ancestry. He was from Zacatecas; his uncle and father came to the US in 1913 when my father was 10 years old to escape the horrors of the Revolucion. My mother had not liked his "Mexican" relatives and avoided them. So I could not get any info from them. Thank goodness for the Family Search records. All I could remember my father telling me about our ancestry was that we were "mestizos" with a little French blood. I used to hate my maiden name Olague. I wished it had been something simple like Garcia or Hernandez. In grammar school the name was hard for people to pronounce and the kids thought it an "ugly" or "funny" name.

I had heard my father say that his great-grandfather had been known as "El Frances", that he had come from France as a soldier with the French Army, that he had blue eyes. Well, I found no French in his lines. I think that because the French were light-skinned and blue-eyed, they thought anyone with that coloring was French, forgetting or not knowing that their Spanish ancestors had not mixed totally with the Indians. His paternal grandmother (Tinajero/Suriano/Felix, Flores) had only Espanoles and Mulatos, very few Indio. His paternal grandfather (Olague) had only espanoles going back to the 1500s. I did once hear someone tell my father his surname was Basque, and he said yes, that's right. I later visited a town in Navarra with that name. The people there were all light-skinned and blue-eyed.

I have found it intriguing that some people of Mexican descent claim royal ancestry from the European kings and from the native Aztec kings, but that is disputed and can't be proved beyond the fact that the conquistadores were not really of royal blood, but were royal retainers who were given the names of their royal patrons; they were public servants who were given titles for their service, as I learned from a Nuestros Ranchos member, Bertha Medina de Boehm who has given the group very good explanations of what is royal and what is not. As for Aztec ancestry, the native kings had thousands of concubines.

I now have two bookcases, six feet tall, with almost 100 binders of family trees and history and photos. Through Ancestry and Rootsweb I have met many cousins that I have helped. I can spend hours doing a basic tree for people who inquire for information. I even do trees and research for other people, non-Hispanics, and that takes me in a different direction in research. I am as pleased as they are when I make a breakthrough for them.

My Native American ancestors would say that it was not right to speak the names of the dead, that it disturbed their spirits and they couldn't rest. However, I feel that some of my ancestors and my husband's ancestors long dead speak to me; a name will pop up when I am trying to sleep or have been asleep, and a voice says, look up that name, and lo and behold, it leads to breaking down a brick wall. They say no one ever dies as long as you speak their name. However, other ancestors don't want to be found, I think. They put up a brick wall, such as my father's mother. All I know is her name and her parents' names, and try as I have for years, they continue to hide. I know nothing of those lines.

Tell us why you do genealogy, Jonathan, besides being a member of LDS Church.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

For me it started almost 5 years ago, when I was 12. In church we were taught it was important to know where we come from and from whom. I have a couple of Mulatto (half black/half white) lines, mestizos, couple of native American and spanish lines. What a mix! For me I started because my grandfather and mother were both doing genealogy and I caught the bug at age of 12. As i go through my geenalogy I can almost feel them its a special feeling that I cannot describe. Knowing that all tthose who have died and are still alived made me. We can know our roots and take them into the future. From genealogy I have learned were I come from and where I will go. Also it is for my future descendants.
-Daniel Méndez Camino

My grandparents and later my parents were into family history. My
grandmother made coloring books of our ancestors. A basic character with
clothing that told us about the person. She later stitched these images
on a quilt. When my mother started she would tell the same stories over
and over. I thought, family history was for old people and some day I
would be involved in it. Today at 30 I don't feel so old, but I am a very
passionate genealogist. I am working on my husbands lines. This venture
has healed the relationships I have had with his family. I'm not sure
what the problem was to begin with.......but those hard feeling have gone
away. I am learning about the living and those who have passed. My
husband knew he was related to people but he could never tell me there
names or how. Now I remind him, I take him to visit.......These are
wonderful people who have stories, wisdom, thoughts that enrich our
lives. And sometimes we discover unpleasant things as well, but I am no
ones judge. I have no idea of the intent of heart, or circumstances. I am
glad to know they were as unperfect as me or they were human. I can
connect with that! I feel these ancestors and their JOY when they are
remember and discovered. Old traditions and misunderstanding seem to wash
away and heal our broken hearts.

And in all honesty, I really wanted to know who my children could date. (
:

Jokae

----- Original Message -----
From: mexicanfhr
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800 (PST)

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made
me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And
I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group
members.

Jonathan

Jonathan, why did you start doing genealogy?
 
Linda in Everett

--- On Sat, 2/21/09, mexicanfhr wrote:

From: mexicanfhr
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 9:42 AM

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked
ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I
started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Jonathan

About 20 years ago at a Castanon family reunion I noticed my grandmother Juana Sanchez Castanon crying quietly as she watched the family.  I asked her why and she said that in 50 years there would not be a Mexican left in our family. A great number of my generation, including me had married into so many different nationalities we look like a United Nations but very few spoke Spanish, had the classic dark features refered to as Mexican looking and our children did not claim Hispanic heritage at all.  I was one of the few remaining grandkids who understood some Spanish but did not speak it either.  I was also from a generation that did not take pride in our heritage since we were told we were different, inferior and only good for labor by our community.  I felt it my "calling" to try to learn what our history was. I've been working on this quest for 15 years now.  I not only have an immense sense of pride in myself and my ancestors but have a sense
of responsibility to those who came before me.  I carry their reputation, their name and their genes.  In a time when so many feel disconnected I was able to tell family at the reunions who their ancestors were, what they did and how they lived to a point.  I've learned Mexican history by doing records and learned enough Spanish to make the records come alive again.  I don't do this alone, the ancestors have a hand in it I believe and being able to work with a group like Nuestrosranchos  and through the Family History centers makes this all possible.  I hope to leave a legacy for the people of  El Durazno, district of Jerez Zacatecas, the home of my grandparents Epitacio Castanon and Juana Sanchez and also for my maternal line Marcelino Gutierrez and Rafaela Villanueva Mendez from Tamazula Jalisco Mexico.  I put my records on Rootsweb.com so anyone who is seeking family from that area can find a place to start connecting again.  What good is
information if I hoard it in a drawer?
 
Linda Castanon-Long in Everett Wa.

--- On Sat, 2/21/09, mexicanfhr wrote:

From: mexicanfhr
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 9:42 AM

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked
ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I
started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Jonathan

I got the genealogy bug 20 years ago when my kids were little and we got our
first video camera. I started interviewing my parents, aunts, uncles,
grandmother, and grandaunts, and eventually graduated to researching
ancestors when I learned about familysearch.org. Like Angelina, it was a
way for me to stay connected to my large, extended family, since they are in
California and I've been on the East Coast for 31 years now. Many of my
relatives are on my group email list. I'm able to share my small successes
with them and invariably at least one responds. But there is a real
spiritual component to this quest. I feel like I really honor each one of
my ancestors and past family members by finding them, saying their names
again, fitting them into our family tree. I like to think that somewhere in
the spirit world they are smiling, happy to be remembered, relieved to be
included.

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:42 PM, mexicanfhr wrote:

>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been
> asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think,
> about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to
> get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan

Jonathan,

Funny.

I've been asking myself why I WOULD want to seek my ancestry. I haven't done much but, what little history I know of the "conquest" is that these invaders didn't really bring their women and families to settle Nueva Espana in the way the English did. Especially in the beginning, they mostly raped the indigenous women and killed the ones that would try to fight them off. Much like the slave owners in the united states, many were raped by their European slavemasters, impregnated and left for dead. It's been said that "the Child is what the Mother is." I suspect it would be much more difficult to trace the lineage of our mother's mother's mother... How many Mestizos are the result of rape whether married or not? Sure science says a father is a father but, I don't know if I would consider a man who raped my mother and left her for dead to be my father.

I'm not putting genealogy down, these are just questions I've asked myself and because of Jonathan's question, am wondering if others have.

Sincerely,

Victorx

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan

Hello to Everyone,my reason was kinda of a wierd . I grew up in a mexican neighborhood and constantly being told I didn't look mexican ,what happened to me.. I too wondered why looked the way I did ,light complexion, hazel eyes. I began to notices my extended family on my dads side 98 % light,my grandmother with a green eye and blue eye.My maternal grandfather was very dark but it was frustrating I allowed people to make me feel odd.I began to ask questions ,study history of mexico and tracing my ancestors ,to find my answer.

Chinese Proverb:What is a tree without roots,What is a stream without its source ?

Now I know why I look the way I do,and I have met cool new primos in my search.

Ronnie Reynoso, pariente acasi todos de Los Altos de Jalisco

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan

Hi Jonathan -

I grew up hearing "stories" from aunts and uncles - unbelievable stories,
such as we were French, Spanish and Indian heritage on my mother's side and
derived from royal blood on my father's side. I wanted to verify these stories.

I grew up in the US - my mother's grandparents died before I was born - they
had come during the time of Revolution, and no aunt or uncle kept in touch
with that side of the family in Mexico (Zacatecas). On my father's side, he
had died when I was a baby - and all of his family lived in Mexico (Coahuila)-
I would hear the aunts and uncles tell us many stories when I visited.

Today, I feel it is as if the ancestors want me to whisper their name and
write it down so they are not forgotten. By the way, I am still looking for
verification of our French blood and trying to verify the royal blood story.
In the meantime, I did discover that I came from a long legacy of educators -
and I am one today - seems like some things are indeed in our blood.

Esperanza
chicagoland area
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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Jonathan

For me there are two reasons:

(1) Knowing where we came from tells us something about who we are.
(2) It is a gift to my children.

George

**************
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir…
hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)

Jonathan,

When I was a little girl we moved to U.S. I didn't like the move because I loved my grandparents so very much and I hated to leave them. Both paternal and maternal. That's when the seed was planted and I wanted to know more about my ancestors. I had a ggg-mother named Maria Dolores Diaz who lived to a ripe old age of 103 - so I am told - I have not verified that. What I do know is that she made my clothes when I was a baby. She used to make beautiful knit and crochet clothing for a living and always made extra for me. She would work very hard for 3-4 months straight; would buy more material to make more projects, and would spend the rest of the money on her drinking binges until all the money was gone. Then she would start all over again. :-)

Another ggg-father named Jose Rafael Lopez Aguilar lived to 102 and I did take a picture of the little cemetery house where he was buried. I come from families that were big in numbers. One of my ggg-aunts had 17 children. My grandfather had 13 and he was 98 when he passed away. Sandly, my father was one year short of retirement when he died of ALS in 1985. I want to know all there is to know about my family and have been working on this on and off for 25 years. I have a way to go but I won't quit! I have done extractions and Census Indexing and been a family history consultant so that I can be more knowledgeable about my native country and its people. I have many family members spread out all over Jalisco and Distrito Federal and a few other states. This is a lifetime commitment and I love all that has to do with genealogy.

I have many stories but they do take time. Hope this helps.
Esther Jordan (Lopez)

I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked
ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I
started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more
ideas or thoughts from the group members.

Jonathan

For me genealogy began about 10 years ago at my father's funeral. I asked some of my nephews and nieces if they knew my father's father's name. None of them knew. I vowed then not to let my father's ancestors die with him, too.

Jose Carlos de Leon

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:42:21 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

My experiences with family history is as follows. I became intensely curious about my ancestry as pre-teenager. I found myself doubting all the oral traditions passed on by my parents and grandparents and their siblings. Growing up is hard enough without adding the element of being treated by everyone else as unacceptably "different." Just like old Sergeant Friday, I wanted just the facts.

Learning the "facts" continues to be a life-altering process for me. I'll be 71 in less than three months. I have been researching off and on since the 1970's. The "facts" continue to surprise me. Curiosity is no longer the force driving my research. I feel a compelling need to understand myself better. I also see the results of investigation as a very worthwhile legacy for my children and their children and so on.

I have come to believe that well-done family history research helps us to include others in our lives. It does not drive wedges between and among us. I could go on and on but perhaps this is good idea of why I continue to investigate my family history.

David, in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: mexicanfhr
>Sent: Feb 21, 2009 9:42 AM
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing genealogy?
>
>
>I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
>Jonathan

Hi there Jonathan,

I always had a yearning for my beginings . When I was 10 yrs. old my dad picked me up from my friends house ( Ramon Palacios ) he lived in front of Roosevelt High School in East Los Angeles . Anyway , as we were driving I asked my dad where my name came from . My name is Welester G. Alvarado . You can only imagine how i took the blows for a name such as mine . All my friends were Henry , Richard , John etc. etc. and here I was with a name like Welester . The kids called me Chester , Dexter , Fester and the list goes on and on .

Well back to my dad and the big question ¨where did my name come from ¨ I was certain that he would tell me . So, I asked ¨hey pop ( that´s what I called my dad ¨ Where did my name come from . He quickly turned and in a very sharp tone said ¨WHY ! don´t you like it ! I slowly slid down the car seat and softly replied .....yes . That was that ! No more questions about my name .

That in short Jonathan made me start to question my aunt ( my dads sister ) about where we came from . She filled my head with all kinds of colorful stories of Cadereyta , Villa de Santiago in the state of Nuevo Leon and since then I´ve been on my quest .

Grant you , in the begining I had not the least clue in how to do research and about seven years ago I came to Monterrey , Mexico to stay for one year and do my search . Well , it´s been seven years now and I now know a little bit more on how to do research and have met some very wonderful people here and I have even found a long lost cousin who lives in Chicago .

I´ll stop here cuz I can go on indefinetely .

That´s the Readers Digest vesrion .

Take care,

Welester

P.S. A lot of my ancestors originated from Zacatecas and migrated up north to the states of Coahuila and Nuevo Leon .

>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group members.
>
> Jonathan

For me genealogy is a way to connect to family. While I came from a relatively large family (6 kids) we were raised away from our extended family in Mexico. I really enjoyed the few visits we made as kids and relished in the feeling of being surrounded by family. This need to connect with family was intensified when my father died in 2006 and so I discovered genealogy .... I think of my father each time I make another connection, I can picture him sitting next to me sharing the joy of each and every new discovery.

Hello Jonathan,

My father and I started genealogy back in 1987 when he was diagnosed with ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease. His doctors were curious to know if there was a family history of this. My father died in 1988 and his brother followed in death also from ALS. This fueled my desire to find out more about our family. Since beginning, I have now found 31 family members who died from some motor neuron disease such as ALS througout the years as far back as 1850's when it was known as 'creeping paralysis' or 'loco motor ataxia'. This information has allowed us to participate in studies of this disease in pursuit of a cure. Two more family members passed away last year, my dad's aunt and a cousin.

Hope this helps.

Catherine Wood

Hi Jonathan!

I wish I had started doing genealogy 30 years ago!!! :-) The reason
I do genealogy is probably a selfish one......I only have one
brother.....I come from a small family and always wanted a larger
family......my parents had other ideas!! :-)

I have always had this "yearning" to find the rest of my
family.......although I knew very little about them. It gives me
great satisfaction when I discover a bit of information about them. I
am absolutely overjoyed when I finally meet one of my distant cousins
through genealogy! It is the very best feeling (for me) in this world!

My grandfather (Julian Trevino) was born when his father was age 71
and his mother was age 41! He was the last of 17 children from two
families of my great-grandfather!!! To me it is a great miracle that
I even exist!!! :-) When my grandfather was born he was given to his
padrinos (also his cousins) with the understanding that they never
change his Trevino surname. He was raised with cousins named Valdez
and Villarreal but his name was always Trevino.

I do my genealogy on the Valdez/Villarreal line as if it were my
primary line because they raised my grandfather. I do my Trevino/
Villarreal research because that is my paternal line. My mother's
line is Soto/Barrios.

To me there is nothing more fascinating than doing my genealogy and
discovering my ancestors!

Josie Trevino Trevino
Houston, TX

On Feb 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, mexicanfhr wrote:

>
> I just wanted to ask the group, why are we doing genealogy? I have
> been asked ti give a talk about why we do genealogy? It has made
> me think, about why I started my genealogy about 30 years ago. And
> I just wanted to get, some more ideas or thoughts from the group
> members.
>
> Jonathan

I just did a quick exact name search and found the following in the IGI.

ANASTASIA RAMOS MASCORRO, 27 APR 1868  Ledesma, Ojuelos,
ANTONIO RAMOS/ JESUS MASCORRO, C602244, 1865 - 1871,  0641030
JUSTA RAMOS MASCORRO, 15 AUG 1870  Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco
MA. PRECILIANA RAMOS MASCORRO, 14 JAN 1866 Ledesma, Ojuelos
Justa and Preciliana have same batch and film numbers.

JUANA RAMOS MASCORRO, 02 JUN 1856  Ledesma, Ojuelos
ANTONIO RAMOS/ JESUS MASCORRO, K602242, 1855 - 1861, 0641028
JERONIMA RAMOS MASCORRO, 07 OCT 1860  Ledesma, Ojuelos
TILANA RAMOS MASCORRO, 10 OCT 1858 Ledesma, Ojuelos
Jeronima and Tilana have same batch as Juana above.

LONJINA RAMOS MASCORRO, 23 MAR 1863 Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco
C602243 1861 - 1865 0641029

Hope this is of help to you. Good luck.

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Del
>Sent: Feb 19, 2009 7:32 PM
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ramos families from Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico
>
>
>My grandmother's name was Paula/Pabla Ramos Mascorro.
>She had 12 sisters. I only have the name of one sister, Longina/Lonjina Ramos Mascorro, christened on March 23 1863 in Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
>Their parents names were Antonio Ramos and Jesusita/Jesue Mascorro.
>Paula/Pabla married Guadalupe Martinez and her name became Paula/Pabla Ramos Martinez.
>Anyone knowing or having any information and would like to share, please email me Delia Martinez-Fry at deljmar99@webtv.net.
>Also, I have the book SAN GABRIEL VALLEY FAMILIES OF NUEVA GALICIA by Rosanne Gonzales-Hardy and would be willing to look up information on your ancestors and email it to you if you want.
>Thank you for reading my post. Delia

Hi Daniel!

Let me know when you get into Nuevo Leon.......I am also researching
the "Liendo" surname and so far have hit a BIG brick wall in Zacatecas
in the 1700s. If you ever see the surname LIENDO anywhere it will
probably tie into my lineage. I know it is pretty common in South
America and Spain but I need to get everything out of Zacatecas before
I go there......Thanks again! Josie in Houston

On Feb 22, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:

> Hi Josie, I always see the last names you mention all over the
> place! Sagrada Mitra, several books and a bunch of documents. Right
> now I am focusing on

Hi Josie, I always see the last names you mention all over the place! Sagrada Mitra, several books and a bunch of documents. Right now I am focusing on Los Altos de Jalisco and there "families" (Aguascalientes, Nochistlán. Huanusco, Juchipila, Pinos etc. and Michoacan (Zamora, Tangícuaro, Chilchota, cOtija and Guanajuato (León, Ciudad Manuel DOblado, Silão.) Eventually Ill research the NuevoLeón Spanish families too. Its funny how all of these people are related through marriage and blood! -Daniel

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As I have been thinking about why I started and still do genealogy. Several things have come to mind:

I remember as brand new boy scout, going through my trusty handbook, looking the merit badges. I came across the Genealogy merit badge. I decided that the genealogy merit would be one of my first merit badges. If I remember right it was one of my 5 merit badges. I remember working on it, filling out the pedigree charts and the family group records, visiting the then local genealogical library (now called Family History Centers), seeing the records that they had available.

As I continued into my teenage years, my active interest in genealogy got put onto the back burner. And I didn't pursue any research for several years. But as I was raised in the LDS church, I had several opportunities, to participate in activities, that helped me to think of and to remember, my ancestors.

After I, got married, my wife and I moved to Idaho. Where for some reason, that I don't remember. I started wanting to know more about my family's genealogy. I began to, go to the local FHC again. And started to piece together, all the research that my family had done, for the last 100 years. As I visited with family members, asking for help in finding what the family had. I began to piece together, what had been done. On my mother's side of the family, they had records that had been complied for the last 4 to 5 generations. But each record was seperate from the others. The one person, that had been working on the family genealogy was my grandfather, and at the time I started looking, he had cancer and his health was declining. So he couldn't answer any of my questions. My Grandmother, told me, that in order for me to get a copy of what the family had, I needed to start with myself and start researching all over again.

Well, not to make the story to long. I took my Grandmother's advice, and did start researching again. Since, then I have been able to piece together probably the biggest collection, in the family. But also, I began to run into many of the same brick-walls, that the family has had for many years. After, butting my head against them for a few months. I started, working on my wife's genealogy. Where no one had done any research other then just talking with family members. I have been able to have a fair amount of success, on her side of the family (from Jalisco). At times, I have gone back to my side of the family, and I have been able to find more information there.

So, am I doing my genealogy out of duty for my family, out of love for my ancestors, or for some other reason? I don't know. I do know, that I do enjoy the thrill of finding new individuals, and being able to enter them into my family tree.

Also, why do I enjoy helping others in doing their research? I can only say, I enjoy and that I want to share what I have learned, over the last 30 years. For as it says in Luke “For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:” (New Testament | Luke 12:48).

And that is my story in a nut shell.

I am grateful, for all the stories, that the group has shared with me.

Thanks,
Jonathan
Logan, Ut

You'll find a very wonderful view of c. 1758 Spanish Dominions by visiting
the following link.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3821~360027:S…
h-dominions-in-North-America,?qvq=lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=150&trs=18470

The general site www.davidrumsey.com is an incredible treasure chest too!
Please let all of us know if you find a special treasure connected with your
family history.
R.

Hi Robert! Welcome to our group, I am glad a new member has joined, many of us will have the last names you mention. From what I have helped people, usually you need to get back about 1730 or so that's when you can connect tha massive alteño family tree back to Spain. González is very common, some of the families are González de Laris, gonzález de Hermosillo, González de Ledesma, González Ruvalcaba, González de San Román y Serrano, González del Castillo and González y Rubio. Funny thing about Alteños within 100 years all these González were related thorugh marriage and blood. Maybe you heard the saying, Esos Altos de Jalisco, donde son buenos cristianos para no regar la sangre se casan primos hermanos, I always laugh at that saying! Its funny and true. If your from Tepa, then the Casillas should be la Familia "de Casillas y Cabrera." Alonso might be Alonso de los Hinojos, but I dont know if they went all the way down there, then again the early Spanish traveled everywhere.
Have you posted yout files and a gedcom? From there we can really help try to be as specific as you can, every detail counts! I hope this helps at least as a foundation! -Daniel Camino

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Hola John:

Me podrias decir en donde puedo encontrar estos datos ,y si tu tienes algun enlace con todas estas personas?. espesialmente los dos Nicolas Felix's.Te lo boy a agradecer mucho.

Jose Luis Felix.

> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:22:26 -0800
> From: fromgalveston@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Datos por la Familia Felix
>
> Nicolas Felix, nacido 1615 en Jerez, casado con Franca. Peralta Y Arellano 1671
> |
> Nicolas Felix de Arellano/Ana Carrillo Avila
> |
> Bartolome Felix Arellano/Catarina Chaves Carrillo
> |
> Juan Pedro Felix Arellano/Ysabel Llanos y Valdez
> |
> Marcelino Felix Tinajero/Juana Acevedo
> |
> Felipe Tinajero Felix/Gregoria Salasar-Miranda
> |
> Jose Hilario Felix b. 07 Nov 1812 Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico
> Se casa en Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico, 10 Jan 1835, con /Maria Teodora Flores
> |
> Maria Rafaela Tinajero-Flores, b. 01 Nov 1843, Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico. Ella se casa con Pedro Olague 21 Mar 1863 en Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico
> |
> Francisco Olague-Felix, b. 21 Sep 1872, en Tepetongo, Zacatecas, Mexico
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 4:07:08 PM
> Subject: Research Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4
>
> Send Research mailing list submissions to
> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: FW: Villa de Jerez/Nicolas Felix (Emilie Garcia)
> 2. Totatiche (Cortes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 18:00:54 -0800
> From: "Emilie Garcia"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Villa de Jerez/Nicolas Felix
> To:
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Hola, Jose Felix,
>
> Si, mi antepasado es Nicolas Felix, nacido 1615 en Jerez, casado con Franca. Peralta Y Arellano 1671
> |
> Nicolas Felix de Arellano/Ana Carrillo Avila
> |
> Bartolome Felix Arellano/Catarina Chaves Carrillo
> |
> Juan Pedro Felix Arellano/Ysabel Llanos y Valdez
> |
> Marcelino Felix Tinajero/Juana Acevedo
> |
> Felipe Tinajero Felix/Gregoria Salasar (cambiaron nombre a Tinajero)
> |
> Jose Hilario Tinajero/Maria Teodora Flores
> |
> Maria Rafaela Tinajero/Pedro Olague
> |
> Francisco Olague/Gorgonia Garcia
> |
> Guadalupe Olague/Luisa Marquez
> |
> Emilie Marquez Olague de Garcia
>
> --- Original Message -----
> From: JOSE FELIX
> To: research@ nuestros ranchos.com
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Villa de Jerez
>
>
>
> Hola Emelie:
> Tienes mucha razon acabo de leer la historia de Jerez y si anteriormente le nombraban VILLA DE JEREZ a la actual ciudad de Jerez de Garcia Salinas.
> Con relacion a que tu tambien eres desendiente de Nicolas Felix ? el que pudo haber nacido en 1630 a 1640 .tu cuentas con esa informacion? es una gran alegria saber que ya, habemos barios que compartimos el mismo ancestro .
> Muy pronto estare actualizando mi arbol geneologico en esta pagina. Y gracias a la ayuda de varios miembros .Empese hace aproximadamente un a?o con tan solo algunos 15 y actualmente cuento con 350 .
> Saludos
> Jose Luis Felix
> > From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:04:30 -0800> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Villa de Jerez> > Jose Felix:> > I too am descended from Nicolas Felix. My father was born in Jerez, Zacatecas in 1903. The complete name of the town now is Jerez de Garcia Salinas, and it is not too far from Nochistlan where the Felix and Peraltas lived. I think they used to call it La Villa de Jerez in birth records long time ago. > > Emilie Garcia> Port Orchard, WA> > > -----
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:24:47 -0800 (PST)
> From: Cortes
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Totatiche
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Maria Cortes
>
>
> Where is Totatiche? This file is hard to read.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>

I have seen the statement "Petronila was acknowledged as the great-granddaughter of Moctezuma" in numerousplaces. Does any have the source of this statement, or a reference to the source, or a scan of the document where it appears?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Hi Luís, this is really cool to see. Were related through her at least. I come several times from her. I can sed you a file later in the week. Anyway about that consensus, I think its impossible unless we find the lost document in Mexico City (its believed to there) in the Spanish genelaogy world no one can be exact with Petronila, even in our Ranchos group we always debate and are still seperated on different claims one says Leonor, the other says Isabel another says both Leonor and Isabel and now Pedro. Es una locura. I support the both Leonor and Isabel claim.

This is my claim like many other in the group and the rest of the fields of research,
here are the claims people have: I support the first one:

Petronila was know to be a bisnieta del emperador Azteca! (which one shows bisnieta?)
The first one. This had been regarded "más o menos" to be the one for now. -Daniel Camino

Moctezuma II Moctezuma II Moctezuma II Moctezuma II
Isabel Isabel Leonor Pedro
Leonor Petronila Petronila Petronila
Petronila

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These go back to Spain, I'm assuming? How'd he manage to find records as far back as the late 14th cent.??

I was just browsing the internet when I came acroos info on all of them. Perhaps you may already have this?

http://www.raullongoria.net/Genealogy/FamilyTree/b54.html#P9646

Jose Carlos de Leon

Hey Charles,

I just noticed that you are researching Godina. So am I. But my family is from Colotlan, Jalisco. What information do you have on the surname? I have my files posted in the files section. Take a look and let me know if you see anything familar.

- Angie Godina

Welcom Charles Flores,

I am happy to see new members into this group. We have been quiet for a bit.....probably everyone is busy with life and living. My area of research also includes Nochistlan and extends into Jalpa and Rincon de Romos Aguascalientes.

Are you new to genealogy or just new to the group? Have you had a chance to peruse the member files, if not that's a great place to start. You might also want to check out the features of this site such as the films section, the resources, maps, links, photos etc.

Look forward to hearing from you regarding your research and your ancestors.

Alicia de San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: "User176613@aol.com"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 11:01:39 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hello to all

My name is Charles Flores and I am a new member. I am eager to expand my
research here. My focus area is Juchipila, and Nochistlan, Zac. The surnames
are Flores, Rincon, Banuelos, Godina, Ascencio, Ruiz, Figueroa, and Quezada.
Thanks for allowing me to work within this group.
Lo Mejor,
Charles Flores

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