(ESPANOL ABAJO)
I know this must sounds like a broken record, but with all the new members, it is worth repeating some basic instructions on posting messages. It is important that members follow some basic rules in order to keep the site useful and out of courtesy for other members.
Chilarillo is in the Municipio of Aguascalientes in Aguascalientes State.
=Chilarillo, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes
________________________________________________________________________
Anyone doing Aguascalientes Research? Here is a great volunteer
opportunity! Learn how to data entry this information in to the films
database that Arturo built. Interested, but have questions? Ask away.
Does anyone know the location of Chilarillo? -- presumably somewhere in
Aguascalientes circa 1835, mentioned in several Rincón/San José
christening records. I have not been able to find it on any of my maps
or in any of the lists of ranchos and haciendas that I know of.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuart-ranchos@comcast.net
Stuart, it's listed here: http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm this is in our links. It shows 7 Chilarillos, hopefully one is yours.
Linda in B.C.
Stuart Armstrong wrote:
Does anyone know the location of Chilarillo? -- presumably somewhere in
Aguascalientes circa 1835, mentioned in several Rincón/San José
christening records. I have not been able to find it on any of my maps
or in any of the lists of ranchos and haciendas that I know of.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuart-ranchos@comcast.net
Hello Erlinda,
Thank you, Linda.
I will bookmark that source. It looks like a very useful resource.
Sunday, July 30, 2006, 10:46:46 AM, you wrote:
> Stuart, it's listed here:
> http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm this is in our
> links. It shows 7 Chilarillos, hopefully one is yours.
> Linda in B.C.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuart-ranchos@comcast.net
I do not understand about this data base? Could you explain, is that from IGI? Helen
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Joseph Puentes
>
>
> Anyone doing Aguascalientes Research? Here is a great volunteer
> opportunity! Learn how to data entry this information in to the films
> database that Arturo built. Interested, but have questions? Ask away.
>
> joseph
>
> ================
>
>
> Nuestro Padre Jesus Nazareno, Jesus Maria, Aguascalientes, Mexico
>
> Bautismos
>
> C602731 1816 - 1833 0635557
> C602732 1833 - 1844 0635558
> C602733 1844 - 1852 0635559
> C602734 1852 - 1858 0635560
> J602735 1858 - 1862 0635561 Boys
> K602735 1858 - 1862 0635561 Girls
> C602736 1862 - 1868 0635562
> C602737 1868 - 1872 0635563
>
> Matrimonios
>
> M602739 1825 - 1865 0635619
>
> =================
> =================
>
>
> San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico
>
> Bautimos
>
> C602671 1772 - 1798 0635761
> J602672 1798 - 1806 0635762 Boys
> K602672 1798 - 1806 0635762 Girls
> C602673 1806 - 1815 0635763
> C602674 1815 - 1824 0635764
> J602675 1824 - 1830 0635765 Boys
> K602675 1824 - 1830 0635765 Girls
> J602676 1830 - 1839 0635766 Boys
> K602676 1830 - 1839 0635766 Girls
> C602677 1839 - 1847 0635767
> C602678 1847 - 1855 0635768
> C602679 1855 - 1862 0635769
> C604351 1863 - 1870 0635770
> C604352 1870 - 1875 0635771
>
> Matrimonios
>
> M604353 1772 - 1813 0635886
> M604354 1813 - 1854 0635887
> M604355 1854 - 1874 0635888
> M604356 1874 - 1884 0635889
> M604357 1884 - 1885 0604357
>
>
> =======================
>
> bonus find. . .isn't it strange how the batch number flowed right from
> Calvillo batches (C602679) above right into Jalisco below.
>
> Sagrado Corazon De Jesus, Tenamaxtlan, Jalisco, Mexico
>
> Bautismos
>
> C602681 1757 - 1794 1153862
> C602682 1795 - 1819 1153863
> C602683 1819 - 1836 1153864
> C602684 1836 - 1854 1153865
>
> ================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Helen:
The films database on Nuestros Ranchos has two basic functions... the first is to make it easier to search IGI and VRI by providing batch numbers by municipality and date so that you can easily narrow your search and even perform powerful wildcard searches that are usually not possible without batch numbers. In fact, when you find a film in the database, you can simply click the IGI or VRI button next to the film number and it will take you directly to the familysearch website and give you a listing of EVERYTHING that is on that film from which you can narrow your search by entering as little or as much additional data as you want.
The second purpose is so that members can see if another member has a particular film on indefinite loan at their local FHC. Members who have films on such indefinte loan are usually familiar with the content of the film and can answer questions and some very generous ones will even do a sporadic lookup for another member so as to facilitate searches...
I hope this helps.
Well the specific info below is from the IGI
why not go and have a look
log in to the http://nuestrosranchos.org site and then at the top pick
the "Films" tab and have a look around. You can access this info from
www.familysearch.org but here we have many of the films/batch numbers in
one place thanks to Arturo. Of course we don't have a comprehensive
listing for our area that is why I was making an appeal for a data entry
volunteer.
batch number hunting for your relatives will help you save a lot of time
when your films come in so you can go directly to the records you are
looking for. But if you have the time going through the films frame by
frame is by far the best way to do it.
joseph
ps: you might want to look in the message archives also for the subject
of "Batch Numbers" or words similar to this. over the years we've had
much discussion about using batch numbers to search for ancestors. If
you can't find them let me know and I'll try to go in and bring them out.
helencfisher@comcast.net wrote:
>I do not understand about this data base? Could you explain, is that from IGI? Helen
>
>
>>Anyone doing Aguascalientes Research? Here is a great volunteer opportunity
>>
>>
>>Nuestro Padre Jesus Nazareno, Jesus Maria, Aguascalientes, Mexico
>>
>>Bautismos
>>
>>C602731 1816 - 1833 0635557
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Joseph:
I have uploaded the Aguascalientes batch and film numbers that you posted. There is way to do mass imports which makes large amounts of data entry unnecessary.
Mickey, I believe you had sent me a similar list with Jalisco batch numbers sometime last month. My computer died and with it died the file you sent me. Can you resend it to me?
Also, there were other members who were doing data entry and entered films with errors they could not fix. I have got some breathing room again and can attend to getting all this fixed, if people just send me their requests PRIVATELY to my email address or through the contact form on the site.
Thank you to everyone for making the Films Database such a sucess.
That's strange that you were rejected. Right now all they ask for is
a 4 generation family tree to accompany a submission. It may be that
you were rejected from a particularly restrictive research project
Here is a very brief outline of my father's journey to the USA from Mexico.
Raul Estrada born in 1905 in Monterrey, Mexico and died in 1948, El Paso,
Texas.
At the age of 16 he crossed illegally the border from Mexico to the USA. He
Here is a very brief outline of my father's journey to the USA from
Mexico.
Raul Estrada born in 1905 in Monterrey, Mexico and died in 1948, El Paso,
Texas.
At the age of 16 he crossed illegally the border from Mexico to the USA.
He was apprehended by the Border Patrol and deported a total of 5 times.
Raul crossed illegally the deadly Arizona desert once and almost died of
thirst. While crossing the Arizona desert he did manage to find some
water but it was crawling with worms. He drank some of it anyway.
His main work was as a painter, plasterer and decorator. At other times
he worked as a sheep herder, occasionally as a migrant worker in the
farms, and in railroad construction. In 1933 he and his brothers moved to
Magdalena, New Mexico where he met and married my mother. After his last
deportation he finally was allowed to apply for his immigration visa in
1940 because his wife and four children were American citizens. As part
of the penalty, however, he had to spend 10 months in Juarez, Mexico
before he could join his family in the USA.
Three of their children are college graduates.
Gloria
Hi;
I hope somebody can help me with this. In one of my lines from Jerez-tepetongo (Salinas line). I have a document (Marriage 1737) that saids that the family was from TENASCO. I assumed that was in Jalisco. I found a dam with the name Tenaxco very close to colotlan-Sta Maria de los Angeles. But now there isn't a town with that name. Can anyone tell me if Tenasco was the old name for the region? Where should I look for the records? Maybe Colotlan?, Maybe Sta Maria de los Angeles? Has anyone seen the name tenasco (tenaxco)?
Susana:
Tenasco is a very small town (always was a small town) my father born there, so the place is real, this town belongs to the municipaly of Santa Maria de los Angeles Jalisco. Most of the people now are outside of town, some people emigrate to Guadalajara, Zacatecas and USA: Texas, Kansas, California, Illinois.
Ones of the web sites is http://www.santamariadelosangeles.com/ it is in spanish.
My father born there in 1943 at that time the town was around 600 people and at this time is less than 100 people.
In the old times this town belongs to Colotlan Jalisco, but now it belongs to Santa Maria de los Angeles Jalisco. In the past Tenasco was a little place alongside of the Camino Real "Royal Road" to Zacatecas, but in moderns times was builded a new road and the town decrese with the time.
The best place to seach is Colotlan because always was the big town and since the spanish colony was the place for justice, economic, administrative.
As you say Colotlan and Santa Maria de los Angeles are close one each other, 8Km (5 miles) and Tenasco is around 7km from Santa Maria de los Angeles (4.5 miles).
A religius holiday is 16 July "Nuestrara Senora del Carmen", Tenasco ( Nahuatl word ) comes from Tena-Mitl “muro" (Wall)” Is-Co “en frente de" (in front): “frente a la muralla” (In front of the Wall).
So Tenasco means "In front of the Wall".
I never been there but I'am planing for next year a trip to investigate the roots of my family.
Have a nice day!!!
Raul Damasco wrote:
>Susana:
>Tenasco is a very small town (always was a small town) my father born there, so the place is real, this town belongs to the municipaly of Santa Maria de los Angeles Jalisco. Most of the people now are outside of town, some people emigrate to Guadalajara, Zacatecas and USA: Texas, Kansas, California, Illinois.
>Ones of the web sites is http://www.santamariadelosangeles.com/ it is in spanish.
>My father born there in 1943 at that time the town was around 600 people and at this time is less than 100 people.
>In the old times this town belongs to Colotlan Jalisco, but now it belongs to Santa Maria de los Angeles Jalisco. In the past Tenasco was a little place alongside of the Camino Real "Royal Road" to Zacatecas, but in moderns times was builded a new road and the town decrese with the time.
>The best place to seach is Colotlan because always was the big town and since the spanish colony was the place for justice, economic, administrative.
>As you say Colotlan and Santa Maria de los Angeles are close one each other, 8Km (5 miles) and Tenasco is around 7km from Santa Maria de los Angeles (4.5 miles).
>
>A religius holiday is 16 July "Nuestrara Senora del Carmen", Tenasco ( Nahuatl word ) comes from Tena-Mitl “muro" (Wall)” Is-Co “en frente de" (in front): “frente a la muralla” (In front of the Wall).
>So Tenasco means "In front of the Wall".
>
>I never been there but I'am planing for next year a trip to investigate the roots of my family.
>
Raul,
Manda un email a Alicia Carrillo. Ella esta haciendo planes con otros en
el grupo en hacer un viaje a Jalisco y Zacatecas.
Alicia Carrillo . . .ella puede hablar y escribir
Espanol muy bien. . .mucho mas mejor que yo,
bienvenido al grupo,
joseph
p.d. te voy a mandar las locaciones de bibliotecas (Centros de Familia
Historia) donde vives.
Thank-you so mucho for the information about Tenasco. The family that I'm
looking for in Tenasco are the "Salinas de Biena". They left Tenasco around
1730's. They moved to Jerez, Zacatecas. I'm going to start searching for
them in Colotlan.
Thank-you again
susana
----- Original Message -----
From: "damasco"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tenasco
>
> Susana:
> Tenasco is a very small town (always was a small town) my father born
> there, so the place is real, this town belongs to the municipaly of Santa
> Maria de los Angeles Jalisco. Most of the people now are outside of town,
> some people emigrate to Guadalajara, Zacatecas and USA: Texas, Kansas,
> California, Illinois.
> Ones of the web sites is http://www.santamariadelosangeles.com/ it is in
> spanish.
> My father born there in 1943 at that time the town was around 600 people
> and at this time is less than 100 people.
> In the old times this town belongs to Colotlan Jalisco, but now it belongs
> to Santa Maria de los Angeles Jalisco. In the past Tenasco was a little
> place alongside of the Camino Real "Royal Road" to Zacatecas, but in
> moderns times was builded a new road and the town decrese with the time.
> The best place to seach is Colotlan because always was the big town and
> since the spanish colony was the place for justice, economic,
> administrative.
> As you say Colotlan and Santa Maria de los Angeles are close one each
> other, 8Km (5 miles) and Tenasco is around 7km from Santa Maria de los
> Angeles (4.5 miles).
>
> A religius holiday is 16 July "Nuestrara Senora del Carmen", Tenasco (
> Nahuatl word ) comes from Tena-Mitl “muro" (Wall)” Is-Co “en frente de"
> (in front): “frente a la muralla” (In front of the Wall).
> So Tenasco means "In front of the Wall".
>
> I never been there but I'am planing for next year a trip to investigate
> the roots of my family.
>
> Have a nice day!!!
>
>
>
Susana:
The dates preclude you looking anywhere other than Jerez or Colotlan. The parishes in the other towns you mention were not yet set up in 1737. You may also want to look in Tlaltenango... I have been surprised at the number of families that would get married and baptise their children there from as far north as the Hacienda de Troje or Hacienda del Astillero.
Arturo,
In your response to Susana are you referring to the Hacienda del Astillero in Valparaiso, Zacatecas? I too have been finding difficulty finding people and it does seem to be that many of the smaller communities had to go to the larger cities for baptisms and marriages. My problem is that I have found no particular pattern other than church location close to the residence.
Are there other reasons for going to someplace else for baptisms or marriages besides the closest church? More specifically, where did the people from Valparaiso area go in the years before it was an "official" village? Also the "Colotlan" people seem not necessarily go strictly to Colotlan? Any other cities/churches where the people in and around Colotlan went?
Thanks!
Ed
Arturo,
In your response to Susana are you referring to the Hacienda del Astillero in Valparaiso, Zacatecas? I too have been finding difficulty finding people and it does seem to be that many of the smaller communities had to go to the larger cities for baptisms and marriages. My problem is that I have found no particular pattern other than church location close to the residence.
Are there other reasons for going to someplace else for baptisms or marriages besides the closest church? More specifically, where did the people from Valparaiso area go in the years before it was an "official" village? Also the "Colotlan" people seem not necessarily go strictly to Colotlan? Any other cities/churches where the people in and around Colotlan went?
Thanks!
Ed
I wouldn't comment with authority (heck I wouldn't comment with
authority on anything), but other places that the Colotlan folks might
have gone was Huejucar.
I'm just guessing, but maybe if they had relatives in the various
locations they might have made the trip to other communities both to
visit and have their children baptised etc. Now this is a good topic to
get into as it produces more questions than answers. For example with
the Civil Records I would guess that they HAD TO take their children to
be recorded in the cabecera for the locality, but was there freedom for
the Church records? I know if you left the area completely there was
some kind of protocol for the church "investigating" if you were in good
standing from that other parrish [was that only for marriages?]. So
maybe if they went outside of their immediate larger town to do their
baptisms there was some kind of "paperwork" generated or written up for
the priests in that neighboring locations.
joseph
eserros wrote:
>Arturo,
>
>In your response to Susana are you referring to the Hacienda del Astillero in Valparaiso, Zacatecas? I too have been finding difficulty finding people and it does seem to be that many of the smaller communities had to go to the larger cities for baptisms and marriages. My problem is that I have found no particular pattern other than church location close to the residence.
>
>Are there other reasons for going to someplace else for baptisms or marriages besides the closest church? More specifically, where did the people from Valparaiso area go in the years before it was an "official" village? Also the "Colotlan" people seem not necessarily go strictly to Colotlan? Any other cities/churches where the people in and around Colotlan went?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Ed
There are a number of Colotlan marriages in Tlaltenango in the earlier years (1600s), especially of the Spanish families. I think that since Colotlan was a Franciscan convent used as a mission for the Indians, perhaps the Spanish families did not feel it was proper for them to go get married there.
I also think that Tlaltenango was a pretty bustling market town and perhaps a wedding there made it easier for business associates and such to attend? I would not rule out marriages from Valparaiso being in Tlaltenango or Jerez in the earlier years. I think that the Spanish families of the whole area from Jerez to Tlaltenango were all pretty intertwined and would move up and down the valley with frequency.
The other thing to consider is that people would marry someone from outside their town and would often go to the bride's town to get married and then bring her back.
There are a number of Colotlan marriages in Tlaltenango in the earlier years (1600s), especially of the Spanish families. I think that since Colotlan was a Franciscan convent used as a mission for the Indians, perhaps the Spanish families did not feel it was proper for them to go get married there.
I also think that Tlaltenango was a pretty bustling market town and perhaps a wedding there made it easier for business associates and such to attend? I would not rule out marriages from Valparaiso being in Tlaltenango or Jerez in the earlier years. I think that the Spanish families of the whole area from Jerez to Tlaltenango were all pretty intertwined and would move up and down the valley with frequency.
The other thing to consider is that people would marry someone from outside their town and would often go to the bride's town to get married and then bring her back.
here is a map that has Tenasco, Jalisco on it. Very close to the
epicenter of my Puentes and Diaz families in Ranchos de Animas:
http://www.usgenealogy.net/members/joseph27703/images/goodcolotlanscano…
joseph
ps: Those record are probably in Colotlan for that time period. Later
they would have been in Santa Maria de Los Angeles.
Susana Leniski wrote:
>Hi;
>
>I hope somebody can help me with this. In one of my lines from Jerez-tepetongo (Salinas line). I have a document (Marriage 1737) that saids that the family was from TENASCO. I assumed that was in Jalisco. I found a dam with the name Tenaxco very close to colotlan-Sta Maria de los Angeles. But now there isn't a town with that name. Can anyone tell me if Tenasco was the old name for the region? Where should I look for the records? Maybe Colotlan?, Maybe Sta Maria de los Angeles? Has anyone seen the name tenasco (tenaxco)?
>
>Thank you
>
>susana leniski
Susana:
The dates preclude you looking anywhere other than Jerez or Colotlan. The parishes in the other towns you mention were not yet set up in 1737. You may also want to look in Tlaltenango... I have been surprised at the number of families that would get married and baptise their children there from as far north as the Hacienda de Troje or Hacienda del Astillero.
Joseph and Arturo:
Thank you so much for the information.
Joseph, the map that you sent me is great. I was happy to see Tenasco in the
map.
Arturo, I'm going to start searching in the records from the general area.
There are not that many for the years that I'm looking. Thank-you for your
tip.
Thank you again for all your help
susana leniski
Prima,
go to the Albums area and look in the "Maps" folder for a much better
and detailed map of both Tenasco de Arriba and Tenasco de Abajo. This
map shows how out of proportion the previous map was.
have a look,
joseph
Susana Leniski wrote:
>Joseph and Arturo:
>
>Thank you so much for the information.
>
>Joseph, the map that you sent me is great. I was happy to see Tenasco in the
>map.
>
>Arturo, I'm going to start searching in the records from the general area.
>There are not that many for the years that I'm looking. Thank-you for your
>tip.
>
>Thank you again for all your help
>
>susana leniski
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "arturoramos"
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:51 PM
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tenasco
>
>
>
>
>>Susana:
>>
>>The dates preclude you looking anywhere other than Jerez or Colotlan. The
>>parishes in the other towns you mention were not yet set up in 1737. You
>>may also want to look in Tlaltenango... I have been surprised at the
>>number of families that would get married and baptise their children there
>>from as far north as the Hacienda de Troje or Hacienda del Astillero.
>
This is an announcement of a new DNA genealogy study being done in
Northern Mexico. I don't read or speak Spanish so I had Babelfish
translate it for me. It may be of interest to researchers on this
Say a hundred kits to Aguascalientes, 500 to Mexico City, 35 to the Lopez family of Northern California...or for the entire Tigua Tribe...
They would provide enough for Nuestros Ranchos entire membership.
If this is something we think is worthwhile to pursue. I ordered their kit, but never returned it because it is an anonymous test as I understand it. Unless something has changed.
I would appreciate hearing input from others on this forum who have participated in the Sorenson Project.
It is free, simple and painless. They send you a test tube, and q tip to swab the inside of your cheek with. You mail it back to them.
Also, if anyone has participated in the National Geographic Genone Project.
I can see the broad outlines, and general benefits of the projects to society as a whole. To track population movements.
I don't know if their results are applicable in a personal, or specific sense.
http://www.smgf.org/index.jspx
---- Linda R Romero wrote:
> >
>
> This is an announcement of a new DNA genealogy study being done in
> Northern Mexico. I don't read or speak Spanish so I had Babelfish
> translate it for me. It may be of interest to researchers on this
> forum.
>
> Dear friends, The Genealogica Society of the North of Mexico this
> making the harvesting of DNA samples (saliva) without cost in Mexico.
> Single they can participate: - people of legal age - that they have
> but of 5 generations (Ascending) - That are not natural or adpotados
> children. If somebody this interested please to contact to me.
> Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia President the Genealogica Society of
> the North of Mexico Farm San Javier 109 Col. New Guadalupe Aurora,
> the New Leon 67190 Mexico samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx http://
> www.genealogia.org.mx tel: 01152-(81) 1492-6400 mobile: (81) 1276-7868
>
> Linda
>
> >
> > From: "Genealogia.or.mx"
> > Date: July 28, 2006 12:18:13 PM CDT
> > To: GEN-HISPANIC-L@rootsweb.com
> > Subject: estamos realizando recoleccion de ADN y Genealogia en Mexico
> >
> >
> > Queridos amigos,
> >
> > La Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico esta realizando la
> > recoleccion de muestras de ADN (saliva) sin costo en Mexico.
> >
> > Solo pueden participar:
> > - personas mayores de edad
> > - que tengan mas de 5 generaciones (Ascendente)
> > - Que no sean hijos naturales o adpotados.
> >
> > Si alguien esta interesado favor de contactarme.
> >
> > Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
> > Presidente La Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico
> > Rancho San Javier 109
> > Col. Nueva Aurora
> > Guadalupe, Nuevo Leon
> > 67190 Mexico
> > samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx
> > http://www.genealogia.org.mx
> > tel: 01152-(81) 1492-6400
> > mobile: (81) 1276-7868
> >
> >
>
On Jul 29, 2006, at 2:35 PM, wrote:
> Linda: Benecio is referring to the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy
> Foundation. Its a long running project located, I believe, in Salt
> Lake City, Utah. They send out as many kits as any group can use.
> Say a hundred kits to Aguascalientes, 500 to Mexico City, 35 to the
> Lopez family of Northern California...or for the entire Tigua Tribe...
>
Very interesting. I'm glad someone knew what this was all about. I
didn't.
I have participated in the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy study. I
sent in my sample in January, 2006. It was not a cheek swab like the
FamilyTreeDNA tests are. It was a liquid you swish around in your
mouth, spit back into the cup, seal and return it in the envelopes
supplied.
What you say about the study is true. You do not personally get
any results from your sample. However, SMGF (Sorenson) has a website
where you can search for matches to your mtDNA and Y-DNA markers you
tested from other facilities. Having the tests performed in Mexico
would help those of us who are looking for matches in that country.
They require that a four generation pedigree be included with the
sample.
I received this email from SMGF a few days ago. "Dear Friends of SMGF,
We are pleased to announce the release of the Sorenson mtDatabase
available at http://www.smgf.org. As its name suggests, this is a
correlated database of mtDNA sequences and genealogical data. The 4000
+ samples that comprise this first release have been sequenced along
the entire control (D-loop) region. For this reason, the database can
be queried using data from HVR1, HVR2, and HVR3.
Furthermore, we have enhanced the current Y chromosome database
searching capabilities by adding nearly 700 new haplotypes, the
DYS464 marker to the already impressive list of searchable markers, a
new version of the place/time analysis application, and new
educational pages to help you learn more about molecular genealogy
and find new family connections.
We invite you to try the newly released Sorenson mtDatabase and added
features available on the SMGF website. As always, please contact us
at info@smgf.org with your comments and suggestions.
Sincerely,
The SMGF Team"
I understand that not all their data has been released to the public
yet. I'm looking forward to more data being entered into their
database. Maybe I can find a match. I can then check the pedigree
of matching markers to see if we are connected.
Linda
Linda (Romero),
Yes, as Ernie says, this is the Brigham Young U. project. (Brigham Young U. is LDS). I had wanted to participate when it started, if only to help them build a database. I would not have gotten any personal results, only a report on migration of our species. They had us (my husband and myself) go to a community center and present our family trees and my husband and I were rejected because we had (and still have) gaps in our first five generations. Funny, I found everyone back in the late 1700s and early 1800s, but maybe the Revolution caused the loss of a lot of later records in Mexico. The oldest records must have been in a safer place in a central well-guarded location.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --
----- Original Message -----
From: erniealderete@charter.net
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: Linda R Romero
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mexico DNA study announced
Linda: Benecio is referring to the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation. Its a long running project located, I believe, in Salt Lake City, Utah. They send out as many kits as any group can use.
Say a hundred kits to Aguascalientes, 500 to Mexico City, 35 to the Lopez family of Northern California...or for the entire Tigua Tribe...
They would provide enough for Nuestros Ranchos entire membership.
If this is something we think is worthwhile to pursue. I ordered their kit, but never returned it because it is an anonymous test as I understand it. Unless something has changed.
I would appreciate hearing input from others on this forum who have participated in the Sorenson Project.
It is free, simple and painless. They send you a test tube, and q tip to swab the inside of your cheek with. You mail it back to them.
Also, if anyone has participated in the National Geographic Genone Project.
I can see the broad outlines, and general benefits of the projects to society as a whole. To track population movements.
I don't know if their results are applicable in a personal, or specific sense.
http://www.smgf.org/index.jspx
---- Linda R Romero > wrote:
> >
>
> This is an announcement of a new DNA genealogy study being done in
> Northern Mexico. I don't read or speak Spanish so I had Babelfish
> translate it for me. It may be of interest to researchers on this
> forum.
>
> Dear friends, The Genealogica Society of the North of Mexico this
> making the harvesting of DNA samples (saliva) without cost in Mexico.
> Single they can participate: - people of legal age - that they have
> but of 5 generations (Ascending) - That are not natural or adpotados
> children. If somebody this interested please to contact to me.
> Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia President the Genealogica Society of
> the North of Mexico Farm San Javier 109 Col. New Guadalupe Aurora,
> the New Leon 67190 Mexico samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx http://
> www.genealogia.org.mx tel: 01152-(81) 1492-6400 mobile: (81) 1276-7868
>
> Linda
>
> >
> > From: "Genealogia.or.mx" >
> > Date: July 28, 2006 12:18:13 PM CDT
> > To: GEN-HISPANIC-L@rootsweb.com
> > Subject: estamos realizando recoleccion de ADN y Genealogia en Mexico
> >
> >
> > Queridos amigos,
> >
> > La Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico esta realizando la
> > recoleccion de muestras de ADN (saliva) sin costo en Mexico.
> >
> > Solo pueden participar:
> > - personas mayores de edad
> > - que tengan mas de 5 generaciones (Ascendente)
> > - Que no sean hijos naturales o adpotados.
> >
> > Si alguien esta interesado favor de contactarme.
> >
> > Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
> > Presidente La Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico
> > Rancho San Javier 109
> > Col. Nueva Aurora
> > Guadalupe, Nuevo Leon
> > 67190 Mexico
> > samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx
> > http://www.genealogia.org.mx
> > tel: 01152-(81) 1492-6400
> > mobile: (81) 1276-7868
> >
> >
>
Juan's son was Mateo who accompanied him. Juan was a widower. Could this be Mateo?
I have seen Hernando referred to as Fernando.
What archive did you search? Was this through google? Juan married the grand daughter of Alonso
Esther:
You ask: What archive did you search? Was this through google?
Do you mean for the records? All pasajeros a Indias records are available online through Archivos Espanoles en Red. The link is in the links section.
As far as the map of where Arredondo and Ruesga are in Spain, I looked at Michellin Maps online:
You can choose Spain and then simply type Ruesga in the city name field.
Here's a message Hope wanted to share with the group:
I so enjoy what everyone has to say and feel a connection to everyone
so... ..........I hope its ok to send this to you,hopfuly to share with
Jose,
We probably have more connections than that. I also descend from Melchora Arriola through her daughter Juana Flores Valdes through her son Miguel Rodriguez. I descend from the the Villarreals 3 times and Diego Trevino de Valsco 25 times.
Arturo,
Thanks, this looks promising. There is one film for the town for years before their departure. I will check it out.
IT was initesting!
Thank you again. What did you do to find the record?
Esther:
The easiest way to find a passenger is to simply put in their last name in one search field, add another search field and type in the word "PASAJERO". That will bring up both licensias and passenger lists that have that name. This was easy enough with a name as rare as ARREDONDO. Obviously once you get to more common surnames, you would get hundreds of hits so you have to narrow down more. You can then either add yet a third field and add the first name or instead of using just their last name, type their whole name in quotes, i.e. "Juan de Arredondo." This last method is problematic because the match has to be exact. If you leave out the "de" or the name is "Joan" and not "Juan" nothing will come up. Of course you can try every variation possible as it will probably not take longer than having to go through thousands of records.
Unfortunately, the date fields have never worked for me so you have to sift through hundreds of years worth of data.
Another tip... when the scan of the record is available, click on the red version of the camera. While you are not supposed to be able to right-click to save or print, if you are using Firefox, the code they have put into the page does not work and you will get an error message, but Firefox will let you save the image nevertheless. That is how I got yours.
Joseph,
I am sending you the last message I sent you with a Babelfish translation. It took me a while to figure out the link for BabelFish. When I did a search for Babelfish.com all I kept getting was a language learning program. I kept searching for the translator engine link and I finally found it under AltaVista. Then I had to copy and paste my previous message to this new e-mail, save this e-mail as a draft, copy the English to the link, then copy and paste the translation back into the draft e-mail. This is a lot of rigamarole. What am I doing wrong now? I told you I am technically challenged. I hope someone who is Spanish-only speaking can understand the robotic translation, since there are some words in there I have never seen.
I don't mind reading and writing in Spanish on the list although I only consider myself conversant and not fluent. However, it drives me crazy to try to interpret all the words that have a "?" substituted for every accent mark, oomlaut, and tilde. Is there any way to have our program recognize Spanish symbols? Otherwise, I'd prefer to read Spanish without the marks.
Deena:
We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?
yes, I do.
arturoramos wrote:
>Deena:
>
>We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
>
>Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
>
>Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?
Ken, Te saludo e informo que tu mensaje en español está legible y sin tildes. Quizá convendría para evitar lo que mencionas que los que escribimos en español nos olvidaramos de los acentos.
Ken Sweeney escribió: yes, I do.
arturoramos wrote:
>Deena:
>
>We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
>
>Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
>
>Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?
Te saludo e informo que tu mensaje en español está legible. Tal vez convendría para los que escribimos en español olvidarnos de los acentos para clarificar nuestros mensajes.
arturoramos escribió:
Deena:
We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?
Arturo,
I printed out the paragraph below that you typed in Spanish, and it printed out exactly as you typed it. However, I often print out things from other sites or e-mails that my printer garbles where there are n's with a tilde, or vowels with accent marks. I get little squares instead of those characters, and it is irritating. I tried changing my computer to Spanish language so that I wouldn't have to type a~no, etc. and so I could try to type in Spanish, but being technically challenged I failed.
Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.? I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish? I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
From: arturoramos
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:07 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Accents and Question Marks
Deena:
We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?
I know you were addressing this to Arturo but wanted to comment:
Emilie Garcia wrote:
>Arturo,
>
>Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.?
>
No you are not required to translate your emails
Ningún le no requieren traducir sus email
> I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish?
>
I guess you could make an argument in that direction, but I think others
could forcefully argue in the other as well.
Conjeturo usted podría hacer una discusión en esa dirección, pero yo
piensa que otras podrían poderosamente discutir en la otra también.
> I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.
>
Unless I get an overwhelming amount of feedback on keeping this list in
English only I'm going to leave the language optional. If you want to
email in English you are free to. If you want to email in Spanish you
are free to. I think it would be great if the Spanish speakers used that
Babel Fish program (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to translate their
messages for the majority English speaking members, but I'm not going to
make it a requirement. I also think that it would be great if the
English speaking majority would consider our non-English speaking
members by taking a few seconds and at a minimum using that BabelFish
program as well.
Thanks Emilie for bring the topic up. . .I think we need to discuss it.
joseph
A menos que consiga una cantidad del abrumador de regeneración en
mantener esta lista inglés solamente yo vaya a dejar la lengua opcional.
Si usted desea al email en inglés usted está libre a. Si usted desea al
email en español usted está libre a. Pienso que sería grande si los
altavoces españoles utilizaron ese programa de los pescados de Babel
(http://babelfish.altavista.com/) para traducir sus mensajes para los
miembros de discurso ingleses de la mayoría, pero no voy a hacerle un
requisito. También pienso que sería grande si la mayoría de discurso
inglesa consideraría a nuestros miembros de discurso no-Ingleses tomando
algunos segundos y en un mínimo usando ese programa de BabelFish también.
Las gracias Emilie por traen el asunto para arriba. Pienso que
necesitamos discutirlo.
José
>
>Emilie Garcia
>Port Orchard, WA ----
>
>
>
Emilie, et al:
By no means is anybody expecting anybody to write their emails in both languages. I imagine there are members that don't mind doing so and might even enjoy doing so (for short messages), but I believe that anyone who joined the group was aware that the majority of postings are in English.
The bilingual drive had more to do with getting the site functions to be bilingual and as I mentioned in an earlier message, there are online translation machines (even if they are bad as Deena points out) to translate messages if people absolutely cannot understand but I would argue against people putting their messages into those machines in order to translate them and post the garble that comes out. While it may be fine to get an idea of what a posting says, the quality is not good enough to be publishing anywhere, including on this site (in my humble opinion). I think people would rather read the English and struggle on their own to translate it.
I imagine there will be more postings in Spanish now that we have more people from Mexico in the group, but I also imagine that a posting that they wish to have the broadest audience will be made in English. I also imagine that postings targeted at our Mexican members might be made in Spanish by those residing in the U.S. and Canada.
There are plenty of bilingual people in the group who are willing to translate a message here or there when absolutely crucial, but otherwise, please keep posting as you always have.
Arturo,
Thanks. That is great to hear, that I can continue in English, and those from Mexico can continue in Spanish without always having to include a translation. We had a member in Mexico City that wrote in what I call highly-educated proper Spanish, and I understood the gist of it, and he also used a translator machine as a courtesy, and I appreciated that for the parts that were over my head.
When I contact a member privately that I know is Spanish-only speaking, I do try to include a crude little translation of my own, with apologies for my "pocho" Spanish, but I think generally for a group we should be able to e-mail in the language in which we are more comfortable.
I think it is great that people from Mexico joined; we can learn more from them, I think, than they can from us, since they are right there. Lucky are those American members who were born in Mexico or those American born who were able to retain their culture and language. I think their lives are richer for it.
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: arturoramos
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translating Postings
Emilie, et al:
By no means is anybody expecting anybody to write their emails in both languages. I imagine there are members that don't mind doing so and might even enjoy doing so (for short messages), but I believe that anyone who joined the group was aware that the majority of postings are in English.
The bilingual drive had more to do with getting the site functions to be bilingual and as I mentioned in an earlier message, there are online translation machines (even if they are bad as Deena points out) to translate messages if people absolutely cannot understand but I would argue against people putting their messages into those machines in order to translate them and post the garble that comes out. While it may be fine to get an idea of what a posting says, the quality is not good enough to be publishing anywhere, including on this site (in my humble opinion). I think people would rather read the English and struggle on their own to translate it.
I imagine there will be more postings in Spanish now that we have more people from Mexico in the group, but I also imagine that a posting that they wish to have the broadest audience will be made in English. I also imagine that postings targeted at our Mexican members might be made in Spanish by those residing in the U.S. and Canada.
There are plenty of bilingual people in the group who are willing to translate a message here or there when absolutely crucial, but otherwise, please keep posting as you always have.
Joseph,
I guess when I am responding to a message sent to the group from Mexico where the member has typed it in Spanish, I could try to use the translation program to respond. However, I am so technically challenged; I wouldn't begin to know how to use Babelfish. Can you explain how to use it in conjunction with the Nuestros Ranchos e-mails? I just thought it would be easier to continue as we have, some writing in Spanish since it is easier for them, and some writing in English since it is easier for them. We seem to have been understanding each other so far. I am concerned about those members who don't even understand written Spanish, but I guess the Babelfish will take care of that, although it sounds like a robot talking.
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Spanish/English???: Was-Accents and QuestionMarks
I know you were addressing this to Arturo but wanted to comment:
Emilie Garcia wrote:
>Arturo,
>
>Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.?
>
No you are not required to translate your emails
Ningún le no requieren traducir sus email
> I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish?
>
I guess you could make an argument in that direction, but I think others
could forcefully argue in the other as well.
Conjeturo usted podría hacer una discusión en esa dirección, pero yo
piensa que otras podrían poderosamente discutir en la otra también.
> I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.
>
Unless I get an overwhelming amount of feedback on keeping this list in
English only I'm going to leave the language optional. If you want to
email in English you are free to. If you want to email in Spanish you
are free to. I think it would be great if the Spanish speakers used that
Babel Fish program (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to translate their
messages for the majority English speaking members, but I'm not going to
make it a requirement. I also think that it would be great if the
English speaking majority would consider our non-English speaking
members by taking a few seconds and at a minimum using that BabelFish
program as well.
Thanks Emilie for bring the topic up. . .I think we need to discuss it.
joseph
A menos que consiga una cantidad del abrumador de regeneración en
mantener esta lista inglés solamente yo vaya a dejar la lengua opcional.
Si usted desea al email en inglés usted está libre a. Si usted desea al
email en español usted está libre a. Pienso que sería grande si los
altavoces españoles utilizaron ese programa de los pescados de Babel
(http://babelfish.altavista.com/) para traducir sus mensajes para los
miembros de discurso ingleses de la mayoría, pero no voy a hacerle un
requisito. También pienso que sería grande si la mayoría de discurso
inglesa consideraría a nuestros miembros de discurso no-Ingleses tomando
algunos segundos y en un mínimo usando ese programa de BabelFish también.
Las gracias Emilie por traen el asunto para arriba. Pienso que
necesitamos discutirlo.
José
>
>Emilie Garcia
>Port Orchard, WA ----
>
>
>
Emilie Garcia wrote:
>Joseph,
>
>I guess when I am responding to a message sent to the group from Mexico where the member has typed it in Spanish, I could try to use the translation program to respond. However, I am so technically challenged; I wouldn't begin to know how to use Babelfish. Can you explain how to use it in conjunction with the Nuestros Ranchos e-mails? I just thought it would be easier to continue as we have, some writing in Spanish since it is easier for them, and some writing in English since it is easier for them. We seem to have been understanding each other so far. I am concerned about those members who don't even understand written Spanish, but I guess the Babelfish will take care of that, although it sounds like a robot talking.
>
you click on the link. . .you copy and paste the english text into the
window. You pick from English to Spanish. You click on Translate. Then
you copy the translated results and paste them below or above your
English version.
joseph
usted chasca encendido el acoplamiento. la copia y pega el texto inglés
en la ventana. Usted escoge de inglés al español. Usted chasca encendido
traduce. Después usted copia los resultados traducidos y los pega debajo
o sobre de su versión inglesa. José
>
>Emilie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Puentes
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:31 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Spanish/English???: Was-Accents and QuestionMarks
>
>
>
> I know you were addressing this to Arturo but wanted to comment:
>
>
>
> Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> >Arturo,
> >
> >Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.?
> >
> No you are not required to translate your emails
>
> Ningún le no requieren traducir sus email
>
> > I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish?
> >
> I guess you could make an argument in that direction, but I think others
> could forcefully argue in the other as well.
>
> Conjeturo usted podría hacer una discusión en esa dirección, pero yo
> piensa que otras podrían poderosamente discutir en la otra también.
>
> > I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.
> >
> Unless I get an overwhelming amount of feedback on keeping this list in
> English only I'm going to leave the language optional. If you want to
> email in English you are free to. If you want to email in Spanish you
> are free to. I think it would be great if the Spanish speakers used that
> Babel Fish program (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to translate their
> messages for the majority English speaking members, but I'm not going to
> make it a requirement. I also think that it would be great if the
> English speaking majority would consider our non-English speaking
> members by taking a few seconds and at a minimum using that BabelFish
> program as well.
>
> Thanks Emilie for bring the topic up. . .I think we need to discuss it.
>
> joseph
>
> A menos que consiga una cantidad del abrumador de regeneración en
> mantener esta lista inglés solamente yo vaya a dejar la lengua opcional.
> Si usted desea al email en inglés usted está libre a. Si usted desea al
> email en español usted está libre a. Pienso que sería grande si los
> altavoces españoles utilizaron ese programa de los pescados de Babel
> (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) para traducir sus mensajes para los
> miembros de discurso ingleses de la mayoría, pero no voy a hacerle un
> requisito. También pienso que sería grande si la mayoría de discurso
> inglesa consideraría a nuestros miembros de discurso no-Ingleses tomando
> algunos segundos y en un mínimo usando ese programa de BabelFish también.
>
> Las gracias Emilie por traen el asunto para arriba. Pienso que
> necesitamos discutirlo.
>
> José
>
> >
> >Emilie Garcia
> >Port Orchard, WA ----
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>>>>The other two are a Diego Pinedo who is a mulato in the early 1700s in Colotlan
and had lots of children and a Francisco Pinedo who appears in Tlaltenango around
1700. Before that there are no Pinedos in Tlaltenango other than a son of one of
Thank you for that information. I do not think this is the same Franisco PINEDO, however. When Francisco PINEDO appears in Tlaltenango, he already had some children and the ones that are born there are born around 1710 so that means he must have been born circa 1680.
The Francisco PINEDO below, as best I can tell was born circa 1770 if he had a granddaughter bron in 1817... almost a hundred years later. Please tell me if I am reading the record incorrectly.
=====================
From: Gloria
Date: 2006/07/28 Fri PM 04:56:46 CDT
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisco Pinedo descendent in Jalisco
>>>>The other two are a Diego Pinedo who is a mulato in the early 1700s in Colotlan
and had lots of children and a Francisco Pinedo who appears in Tlaltenango around
1700. Before that there are no Pinedos in Tlaltenango other than a son of one of
the mayors in the early 1700s who appears to have left no descendancy in the area.
Francisco Pinedo appears to have immigrated from Tayahua, Zacatecas (in what is
now Villanueva) since the marriage of his oldest son states that he was born in
Tayahua. That makes sense and would explain why he doesn't appear >>>>>
I have no idea if this is the same Francisco PINEDO you are citing above, but maybe
this will lead to a connection:
from LDS #655564, Baptisms, El Sagrario, Autlan, Jalisco
Maria Gregoria PINEDO Navarro
born 11 Mar, baptized 12 Mar 1817
mulata de los Guajes
hija legitima de Jose Monico PINEDO y Maria Senobia NAVARRO
Abuelos paternos: Francisco PINEDO y Maria ALZAGA
Abuelos maternos: Juan NAVARRO y Maria Manuela RADILLO
Padrinos: Jose Seberino PLACENCIA y Maria Seberiana LOPEZ
75
The AM are Juan Joseph Antonio NAVARRO Guerrero, aka NABARRETTE,
hl de Julian NAVARRO y Juana Maria GUERRERO
and Juana Maria Manuela RADILLO Albares.
hl de Antonio Lusiano RADILLO Ocampos and Maria Ycacia ALBARES Gonsales
Gloria Delgado
Arturo,
Recibí el mensaje con tildes y acentos en español. Ahora, una pregunta: ¿recibiste tú este mensaje con acentos y interrogatorias?
I received the message with the diacritical markings in Spanish. Now, a question: did you receive my email with the appropriate markings? I'm using a Mac, G5 with Tiger software and I'm curious.
The research list is for research about the estados of Jalisco,
Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes. I understand that occasionally there
might be a question come up that needs to take us out of the area. In
This is for Nathan Jones.
Nathan,
I called Ms.Silvia Granillo (915-859-7913 who is the current Enrollment
Officer of the Tigua Tribe. I asked about wheher Cacique (Chief)
Perjuin Granillo was still alive. She told me that that was in the
That is VERY helpful. Thank you!
We are not Tigua, only closely associated with them on a spiritual, and emotional level. Grandpa and the Chief were virtually inseperable. As close as two human beings could be.
So that is quite possible that our family was asked to leave reservation property. I had never heard that, but it makes sense. And my grandfather probably died shortly afterwards.
My father is now buried on reservation land. He was interred with full tibal honors. He declined a traditional Christian ceremony. I gave my sister a third of his ashes, and I spread a third at the Mexican-American Veteran's Memorial here in Los Angeles on Indiana by Evergreen Cemetery, and my nephew (the one with the Mongolian blue spot!) took the last third with his Native American wife for an Indian burial with dancing, and banging drums...
I would have gone with them, if I had known. I was only told afterwards. But my father got the funeral he always dreamed of. One befitting his Moctezuma descent thru my gggrandmother Maria Silvestra Romo.
I heard from Marta Estrada today as well. She tells me the Libary/Geneaological Society "might" open in their new quarters in September! They keep pushing back the date.
Marta tells me they have quite a collection on the Tiguas.
---- "campezina@juno.com" wrote:
> This is for Nathan Jones.
>
> Nathan,
>
> I called Ms.Silvia Granillo (915-859-7913 who is the current Enrollment
> Officer of the Tigua Tribe. I asked about wheher Cacique (Chief)
> Perjuin Granillo was still alive. She told me that that was in the
> olden time. She never answered my question but a Cacique Aniceto
> Granillo died a long time ago. Perjuin may have been his nickname.
>
> You can probably borrow books about his fron the University of Texas at
> el Paso (UTEP) where they have Tigua history material.
>
> In one of their references Cacique Granillo is listed as follows
>
>
>
> Also, Silvia Granillo told me that she remembered an Alderete family
> who used to live in the reservation but that they were never Tigua. If
> I remember correctly (don't quote on this, it's been a long time since
> I read it) that family was kicked out of the Reservation when they
> dislodged several families who were not Tiguas.
>
> Ms. Granillo also told me that for further information you should call
> her at the number given. It might be usefull to pursue this further at
> the Tigua office.
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> Elvira
>
> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: NathanJones
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas.
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> &69650a619af368c12a6ee24947ad7572@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Do any of you in El Paso know if Chief Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas
> is still
> alive?
>
> I am told he has another name, this might be his Hispanic name.
>
> I am told he is the only living person who can verify my father's
> heritage.
>
> I'm told he has avoided all Alderetes for years because he feels
> responsible for
> the death of his best friend, my grandfather. He might think we want to
> kill
> him, but nothing is further from the truth. No one holds him
> responsible, the
> death was due to natural causes.
>
> Marta Estrada at the El Paso Historical Society has tried to help me,
> but she
> says all her documents and files are in storage. By the time the
> library is open
> again, he may be dead, if he isn't already.
>
> I believe there are pictures available of my ggrandfather, Benigno
> Alderete,
> perhaps at the Candelaria House, or in the library files. He was a major
> personage in his times.>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
> Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
> Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
>
>
>
> Alicia and Pat:
The Juana Delgadillo entry you quote for Capitulo 13, Pagina 44 is
the daughter of Diego Delgadillo and Petrona de Yslas. You lost the context
because you only quoted the excerpt from the one page and didn't follow it
back to the parents. If you look in the same chapter at the end of
the first paragraph on page forty it reads: "De este matrimonio se han
documentado los siguientes dieciocho vástagos:" Then, the eighteen children
a-q (including the ñ, but not the ch) are named; with two Juanas being
children of that couple l (wife of Lorenzo) and o (christened 27 Dec 1683 en
Nochistlan--you missed this one). Jose Luis Vazquez also names three Juans
as children of this couple on pages 42-43. Juan Delgadillo, Juan de
Renteria and Juan Delgado de Yslas. I did not enter all the names in my
database because I found some errors in the book. For example on page 42:
Josephe Juarez is said to have been christened in 1660. Josephe's mother
(my ancestress) Thomassa Delgadillo was christened in 1657--she would've
been 3 years old at the time her son was christened? It was probably just a
typo, but I opted not to enter anything that I couldn't cross-reference in
the IGI as that would give me two sources. Not a fool-proof method, but
it's better than a single source.
Maria
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:35:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juana Delgadillos
> To: Ranchos
> Message-ID: <20060726233518.50651.qmail@web81608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Ernie and Pat,
>
> Here are 7 additional excerpts from Jose Luis' book, regarding Juana
> Delgadillos. I guess it shows you must be very cautious and vigilant when
> claiming ancestry to a certain individual's name because as we can see there
> appear to be several Juana Delgadillos.
>
> Buena suerte,
> Alicia
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
> Capitulo 13, Pagina 40
> Juana Flores de Medrano. El 14 de Febrero de 1695 en Nochistlan, caso
> Juana Flores de Medrano hija de Francisco Flores de Medrano y Maria de
> Sandoval; con Nicolas Ximenes, vecino de esta feligresia, residente en el
> pueblo de San Diego, hijo de Diego Ximenez y Catharina de Arellano (Capitulo
> 74), siendo padrinos Lorenzo Alvarez y Juana Delgadillo.
>
> Capitulo 13, Pagina 41
> 9) Magdalena de Enriquez. El 26 de febrero 1702 en Nochistlan casaron
> Magdalena de Enriquez y Joseph Alvarez Tostado hijo del Captitan Francisco
> Alvarez Tostado (hijo de Lorenzo (Nicolas segun la dispensa) Alvarez
> Tostado) y de Maria Ana Ramirez de Hermosillo (hija de Jose Ramirez de
> Mendoza y Ana Mu?oz de Hermosillo). Refierase a la dispensa Matrimonial de
> Antonio Ximenez y Juana Josepha Delgadillo.
>
> Capitulo 13, Pagina 44
> Juana Delgadillo quien caso con Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado vecino de
> Teocaltiche hijo de Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado y Maria de Nava y Cuevas
> teniendo su descendencia en Teocaltiche. La consanguinidad en 3ro con 4to
> grado expuesta en la dispensa matrimonial presentada el 27 de Enero de 1749
> en Nochistlan por Bartolome Alvarez Tostado hijo de Joseph Alvarez Tostado y
> Magdalena Enriquez, difunta: para casar con Juana Gertrudis Delgadillo, hija
> de Diego Delgadillo Alarcon y Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo, difunta.
> identifica como tronco a Juan Delgadillo y Maria de la Concepcion Islas
> donde Diego Delgadillo padre de Ysabel Delgadillo abuela del pretenso y Juan
> Delgadillo abuelo de la pretensa son hermanos. Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara,
> Expedientes de la Serie de Matrimonios - Extractos de los Siglos XVII y
> XVIII. Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton, Microfilm 168007. De este
> matrimonio se han documentado los siguientes seis vastagos:
>
>
Dear Ernie, Glad to hear from you, but this Silvia does not know what she is talking about "Perjuin" dying a long time ago, he was still alive and chief this year when my sister Gloria and I went to El Paso. He was very much alive and in a wheel chair. None of the Alderetes have ever lived in a reservation, we were the closest to them, and at the time, they were not even on a reservation, since they were not recognized as a true tribe then. The indians lived across the irrigation canal, and we lived on the other side.
I was going to write you and ask you for the lab's address for the DNA testing. My brother Joe is in the U.S. now, in Salem, Oregon, and they go visit my daughter Pam in Oceanside. I will get the DNA kit to my daughter and she can get him to take it.
---- "campezina@juno.com" wrote:
> This is for Nathan Jones.
>
> Nathan,
>
> I called Ms.Silvia Granillo (915-859-7913 who is the current Enrollment
> Officer of the Tigua Tribe. I asked about wheher Cacique (Chief)
> Perjuin Granillo was still alive. She told me that that was in the
> olden time. She never answered my question but a Cacique Aniceto
> Granillo died a long time ago. Perjuin may have been his nickname.
>
> You can probably borrow books about his fron the University of Texas at
> el Paso (UTEP) where they have Tigua history material.
>
> In one of their references Cacique Granillo is listed as follows
>
>
>
> Also, Silvia Granillo told me that she remembered an Alderete family
> who used to live in the reservation but that they were never Tigua. If
> I remember correctly (don't quote on this, it's been a long time since
> I read it) that family was kicked out of the Reservation when they
> dislodged several families who were not Tiguas.
>
> Ms. Granillo also told me that for further information you should call
> her at the number given. It might be usefull to pursue this further at
> the Tigua office.
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> Elvira
>
> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: NathanJones
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas.
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> &69650a619af368c12a6ee24947ad7572@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Do any of you in El Paso know if Chief Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas
> is still
> alive?
>
> I am told he has another name, this might be his Hispanic name.
>
> I am told he is the only living person who can verify my father's
> heritage.
>
> I'm told he has avoided all Alderetes for years because he feels
> responsible for
> the death of his best friend, my grandfather. He might think we want to
> kill
> him, but nothing is further from the truth. No one holds him
> responsible, the
> death was due to natural causes.
>
> Marta Estrada at the El Paso Historical Society has tried to help me,
> but she
> says all her documents and files are in storage. By the time the
> library is open
> again, he may be dead, if he isn't already.
>
> I believe there are pictures available of my ggrandfather, Benigno
> Alderete,
> perhaps at the Candelaria House, or in the library files. He was a major
> personage in his times.>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
> Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
> Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
>
>
if you ever have time this is a good group/website to know it has info about the Ranchos and some the memember have all reday done there trees.
Muy bien dicho. Arturo y Joseph han trabajado bastante, y lo agradesco.
Me gusta que el sitio sera bilingue.
Well said. Arturo and Joseph have worked hard to pull us together, and offer us all the aid we need. I appreciate all their hard work.
I'm not sure if I am addressing the correct person by name but Ernie even
though I don't have any relatives buried in the LA area, its very gracious
and heart warming for you to offer your services in both research and
flowers for graves.
God Bless you
Hope Wilson
Clarksville,TN
I got the message:)
Thank you. I'm glad to do whatever I can.
I'm good at digging. I recently found my ggrandparents on both sides at the same cemetery.
I searched Calvary Cemetery for years looking for Maria Silvestra Romo. I finally found her, they had sold her plot to someone else, put another marker over her grave. I guess no one had visited it in so many years they thought no one cared. But at least I was able to resolve the puzzle. And leave her some flowers. A woman who died almost 20 years before I was born, but made my life possible.
Many movies are filmed at Evergreen Cemetery. If you've seen Heaven Can Wait with Warren Beatty, parts were filmed there. I know, I was there leaving flowers for my great grand mother Antonia Gonzales, while the actors and crew were there.
Cemeteries were much more important in years past. They were like parks. My father told me he had picnics at Evergreen Cemetery with my great grandmother. He would play for hours there. Pretend he was a pirate. He said the Japanese graves had fake samarai swords he played with...
I know the grounds very well.
---- beelieve wrote:
> I'm not sure if I am addressing the correct person by name but Ernie even
> though I don't have any relatives buried in the LA area, its very gracious
> and heart warming for you to offer your services in both research and
> flowers for graves.
>
> God Bless you
> Hope Wilson
> Clarksville,TN
Ernie,
Yes, how very gracious of you to offer to take even photos of a grave we couldn't see otherwise.
My husband's great-grandfather, Simon Garcia, born in Jalisco in 1864, died in Los Angeles on May 14, 1930 and was buried at the Calvary Cemetery on May 16, 1930. When I wrote to the Archidiocese there, all I got was a simple statement that he was buried in their Calvary Cemetery on Whittier Blvd. in Grave #123, Lot 13, Sect-K.
It would be great if you could get a photo of this grave for my husband.
Thank you,
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: beelieve
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias Por Todo, Thanks for everything
I'm not sure if I am addressing the correct person by name but Ernie even
though I don't have any relatives buried in the LA area, its very gracious
and heart warming for you to offer your services in both research and
flowers for graves.
God Bless you
Hope Wilson
Clarksville,TN
I found a way to beat the heat wave. Spend the morning at Calvary Cemetery! I got soaked from head, to foot by the sprinklers!
Simon and Francisca Garcia are at rest in a beautiful spot in the shadow of Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe Church, which is just outside the cemetery grounds.
There’s a lovely tree near their grave at the northern edge of Calvary.
The cemetery is one of the best maintained in Los Angeles. And the head groundskeeper, Hilario, said he’ll take special care of this one for you. He takes care of my family’s graves.
My paternal great, great grandmother, Maria Silvestra Romo, is buried near your family. She was killed just beyond their grave. She was run over by a low rider as she was crossing the street in 1935 to go to Guadalupe Church. She was so short, he didn’t even see her. She made the 14 stations of the cross every day, each station at a different church.
My maternal great, great grandfather is also nearbye.
---- Emilie Garcia wrote:
> Ernie,
>
> Yes, how very gracious of you to offer to take even photos of a grave we couldn't see otherwise.
>
> My husband's great-grandfather, Simon Garcia, born in Jalisco in 1864, died in Los Angeles on May 14, 1930 and was buried at the Calvary Cemetery on May 16, 1930. When I wrote to the Archidiocese there, all I got was a simple statement that he was buried in their Calvary Cemetery on Whittier Blvd. in Grave #123, Lot 13, Sect-K.
>
> It would be great if you could get a photo of this grave for my husband.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: beelieve
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias Por Todo, Thanks for everything
>
>
> I'm not sure if I am addressing the correct person by name but Ernie even
> though I don't have any relatives buried in the LA area, its very gracious
> and heart warming for you to offer your services in both research and
> flowers for graves.
>
> God Bless you
> Hope Wilson
> Clarksville,TN
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Announce Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> announce(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Gilbert Paez here. First of all, thank you for letting me part this group. I am working my way through the various areas of the website. It is Great!
My question: Could someone help me with the rules for the proper use of hispanic surnames? Example: My grandmother's maiden name was Romero and my grandfather's last name was Paez. Would my father be Paez Romero?
Gilbert:
As you get further back in time this convention disappears completely and is replaced by something that few if any people can explain. Back in the early 1700s and earlier, children were given surnames that were sometimes the paternal name, sometimes the maternal name, sometimes a combination thereof and sometimes neither parent's name but rather that of a grandparent or even an uncle or padrino.
One pattern I have noticed is that surnames tended to be passed on based on land inheritance and prestige so that if land was inherited from the mother's side it was more likely the sons would take the mother's name, especially since there were probably no male offspring to propogate the name if she had inherited the land. Another phenomenon was that if a child was named after a grandparent, they usually got the whole name, including surname so a daughter named for her grandmother Maria de Saucedo would also be named Maria de Saucedo even if her father's surname was Miramontes and her mother's surname was Haro.
Sometimes a name gets combined (maternal and paternal, i.e. Miramontes y Haro or locative and patrinomic, i.e. Lopez de Talamantes) and passed on it the composed form for multiple generations before someone finally decided to chop off one or the other...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_naming_customs
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/surnames.html
http://blogs.ancestry.com/circle/?p=430&o_iid=24018&o_lid=24018
Hola Gilbert,
En México el primer apellido es siempre el del padre y el segundo es el de
la madre. La excepción a esta regla es cuando una mujer se casa y adquiere
el apellido de su marido como segundo apellido ligado por la preposición
"de". Por ejemplo, en el caso de tu abuela materna, después de casarse ella
se convertiría en Romero de Paez.
In Mexico the paternal surname always comes first, followed by the maternal
surname. The exception to the rule is when a women marries and get's her
husband's surname joined by the "de" preposition. For example, your
maternal grandmother, after marrying, would have been Romero de Paez. And
you're right about your father's surnames: Paez Romero.
Saludos,
Victor
Sistema Español de Dos Apellidos.
---------------------------------
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Ya que hay un número grande y creciente de miembros que prefieren comunicar en español es importante que intentemos hacer el sitio un poco más bilingüe. Lo que escriben los miembros en sus mensajes sería bastante difícil traducir, pero esto se puede hacer a través de una de las maquinas de traducción disponibles en la red como Babelfish. Intentaremos integrar esta función al sitio en el futuro.
Hemos hecho que todas las opciones de los menus sean bilingues, tanto las del costado derecho como las de arriba (salvo una de "mailing lists" que no le da gana cambiar).
Tambien hemos anadido un modo de cambiar entre idiomas facilmente con solemente hacer click en la pagina principal o en la banderita que aparece en el fondo a la derecha de cada pagina. Asi que nuevos visitantes que no estan registrados pueden ver el sitio en espanol.
Arturo,
What a great option for all, to have the opportunity to learn from each other, both spanish and english speaking, aside from e-mail communication.
Que gran oportunidad para todos, poder compartir y recopilar informacion en ambas lenguas, español e ingles.
This site is one that brings much gratification, empowerment, knowledge, companionship, insight and kinship to many many people via cyberspace. Who could have imagined when I was growing up that I would have such close connections to people I have never met. For those of you who are younger and who grew up in the age of technology it is not something foreign. I used to have an elderly neighbor who when her husband passed away about 20 years ago and after she had been alone for for many years would say that she could no longer read the paper, not because she wasn't literate or couldn't see, she had been a teacher, but because much of the terminology was not something she could relate to.
Este sitio es trae mucha gratificacion, empoderamiento, sabiduria, acompañamiento, perspectiva, parentesco y afinidad via el espacio cybernetico. Quien se hubiese imaginado cuando yo era niña que fuera posible sentirme tan cerca a tantas personas que ni conozco. Para ustedes que son mucho mas jovenes y que se desarollaron en la epoca de tecnologia no es algo raro. Tuve una vecina anciana que cuando murio su esposo hace mas de 20 años y que despues de muchos años me decia, "no me es posible leer el periodico porque hay tanto que no entiendo" Esto no era porque no supiese leer puesto que fue profesora sino porque mucho del lenguaje no lo comprendia.
It was the high-tech age, talking of bytes and megabytes, e-mail, cache, semiconductors, mainframes, laptops, desktops, memory but not in the context she knew in terms of memory, bites, desktops and laptops and a many other words or phrases.
Era la epoca de bytes, megabytes, e-mail, cache, semiconductores, maniframes, laptops, memoria y otras frases y palabras pero no se usaban en el contexto que ella sabia sino que de manera ajena a su generacion.
I have gotten too wordy but I just wanted to thank you both for giving us the gift of your time, your talent and your wisdom.
Les quiero agradecer a Joseph y Arturo por el regalo que nos brindan con su sabiduria, talento y el tiempo que toman para mejorar la presentacion de informacion a este grupo de gentes que se interesan en la busca de sus ancestros y su historia.
Atentamente,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca
----- Original Message ----
From: arturoramos
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:13:38 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Páginas en español
Ya que hay un número grande y creciente de miembros que prefieren comunicar en español es importante que intentemos hacer el sitio un poco más bilingüe. Lo que escriben los miembros en sus mensajes sería bastante difícil traducir, pero esto se puede hacer a través de una de las maquinas de traducción disponibles en la red como Babelfish. Intentaremos integrar esta función al sitio en el futuro.
Lo más importante por el momento es hacer que las páginas que genera el sitio que tengan instrucciones o información fundamental quedan traducidas. Si Vd. ha puesto en su perfil que su idioma sea español, deberá ver que los menus del costado derecho y la mayoría de páginas genéricas (es decir las que no contienen mensajes escritos por miembros) quedan traducidas al español. Sé que aún hay algunas páginas que no quedan traducidas. Si nos pueden ayudar a identificar páginas que no quedan traducidas, intentaremos traducirlas.
Ya verán que recién traducimos la página principal de archivos “Files” y algunas otras.
Well, don't do it on MY account! :) Marge:)
On Jul 27, 2006, at 11:13 AM, arturoramos wrote:
>
> Ya que hay un número grande y creciente de miembros que prefieren
> comunicar en español es importante que intentemos hacer el sitio un
> poco más bilingüe. Lo que escriben los miembros en sus mensajes sería
> bastante difícil traducir, pero esto se puede hacer a través de una de
> las maquinas de traducción disponibles en la red como Babelfish.
> Intentaremos integrar esta función al sitio en el futuro.
>
> Lo más importante por el momento es hacer que las páginas que genera
> el sitio que tengan instrucciones o información fundamental quedan
> traducidas. Si Vd. ha puesto en su perfil que su idioma sea español,
> deberá ver que los menus del costado derecho y la mayoría de páginas
> genéricas (es decir las que no contienen mensajes escritos por
> miembros) quedan traducidas al español. Sé que aún hay algunas
> páginas que no quedan traducidas. Si nos pueden ayudar a identificar
> páginas que no quedan traducidas, intentaremos traducirlas.
>
> Ya verán que recién traducimos la página principal de archivos “Files”
> y algunas otras.
>
Dear cousins:
I just got this email from a gentleman in Aguascalientes who is researching our same lines. He must have run across my homepage. As I understand his message Diego Romo de Vivar ranged over a wider area than we anticipated, not extending his lifestyle to Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua alone, but reaching as far north in Nueva Biscaya as Villa Ahumada, which he founded.
The Romo de Vivar line, which fellow member Connie Dominguez has researched
extensively and posted seems to be of interest to many of us (my lines
descend from it as well). I had never heard of his excursion into Chihuahua
but it doesn't surprise me as my direct ancestor (which I'm "stuck" on)
Miguel de los Cobos also came from Aguascalientes to the Parral area in that
time frame.
I am new to the forum and am anxious to contribute some
documentation/research of value. I am physically located in Austin Texas
whihc has an extensive collection of film of the various Archivos at the
Univeristy of Texas. Despite being at the library many times I have never
mastered navigating thorugh those voluminous archives but if someone has
tips for me on how to do this I'd be very appreciative (is the Archivo de
Aguasclaientes located within another archive or is a seperate entity?) .
Tony Cobos.
>From: NathanJones
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo & Rangel across Aguascalientes,
>Jalisco,Chihuahua, Nayarit and Sinaloa.
>Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:23:41 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Dear cousins:
>
>I just got this email from a gentleman in Aguascalientes who is researching
>our same lines. He must have run across my homepage. As I understand his
>message Diego Romo de Vivar ranged over a wider area than we anticipated,
>not extending his lifestyle to Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua alone, but
>reaching as far north in Nueva Biscaya as Villa Ahumada, which he founded.
>
>If you've never been there, I highly recommend Villa Ahumada. It's the town
>that cheese built. I think Menonite Cheese, but in any case a soft, moist,
>white cheese served on a fresh hand made tortilla.
>
>Out of this world! Vendors sell them to passing cars, trains,
>busses....pedestrians! They probably sold them to passing wagon trains.
>
>All decades before Pollo Loco!
>
>Ernie: dame un poco más de información sobre los Romo de Vivar: Diego y
>Pedro. Te informo que Diego estuvo unos años en Chihuahua como
>colonizador
>y fundó lo que ahora es Villa Ahumada.. Es probable que haya dejado
>descendencia fuera de matrimonio por allá. Hay un estudio interesante de
>ese
>episodio.Tengo documentado que se casó en Aguascalientes, no en España.
>Pedro estuvo en Alamos, Sonora también como colonizador, pero al parecer
>volvió ya viejo a Teocaltiche, Jalisco. Es fundador de la mayorÃa de las
>lÃneas genealógicas de Los Altos de Jalisco y de ahÃ, de las de Sonora y
>Sinaloa. Tengo la hipótesis de que vinieron a América por que son primos
>hermanos del Capitán Juan Rincón de Vivar y el PresbÃtero Pedró Rincón
>(de
>Vivar) de Ortega, poderosÃsimo personaje que fundó el mayorazgo de los
>Rincón-Gallardo. Es probable que los Romo hayan venido a ayudar a los
>primos
>ricos y luego que sirvieron a la corona como colonizadores en las fronteras
>de los chichimecas, se asentaron en esta región como propietarios. Está
>documentado (Archivo histórico de Aguascalientes, 1654), que ambos
>estuvieron un tiempo en la costa de lo que ahora es Nayarit, junto con
>otros
>colonos del centro de Nueva Galicia, defendiendo la costa de los ataques
>piratas.
>Saludos
Hi. Welcome to the group! I have Cobos from Chihuahua in my maternal line. My sister, and I agreed long before we knew we had Cobos blood, that Cobos was our favorite Mexican name. I can’t say exactly why, except that it has a certain resonance.
Here is my Cobos legacy:
Maria Josefa Refugio Tiburcia Valeriana Robledo Cobos, born March 23 1834 in Hidalgo del Parral,
daughter of:
Jose Sirilo Robledo, born about 1808, and
Maria Petra Antonia del Rayo Cobos Serecedes, born October 1812, Jimernez, who were married on January 16, 1828 in Valle de Allende.
Her parents were:
Jose Mariano Pedro Cobos Aranda, born May 24, 1781 in Jimenez, and Trinidad Serecedes, born around 1792
His parents were;
Gregorio Mariano Cobos Talavera, born October 18, 1753 in Valle de Allende, and
Mariana Aranda, born around 1760, who were married March 2, 1778 in Jimenez.
I believe his parents were:
Raimundo Cobos and Manuela Talavera.
I’ve split my family into two separate homepages, so each one can hold more photos.
My maternal home page can be found at:
http://www.genealogy.com/users/a/l/d/Ernie-Alderete-Monterey-Park/
I’ve uploaded ten family pictures that date from the 1880s, and I think, portray a good slice of life in old time Chihuahua.
My maternal names include; Rodriguez, Monotya, Porras, Acosta, Vasquez, Cobos, Aranda, Robledo, Serecedes, Olguin, Caballero, Corral, Caro, Villalobos, Gallardo, Najera, Suares, Dominguez, Chaves, Talavera, and others.
My paternal homepage can now be found at:
http://www.genealogy.com/users/a/l/d/E-Alderete/
My paternal names include; Ramirez, Romo, Rangel, Gonzales, Moctezuma, Navarro, Lopez de Elizalde, Ruiz de Esparza, Perez, Hernandez, Revalear, Alderete, and others.
You can check out my Alderete DNA Project at:
http://www.familytreedna.com/(hcojjivgekjvu155hef2gy55)/public/alderete
And my Moctezuma DNA Project at:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/moctezuma
My 67 marker Y, and mt DNA results are posted at both projects, as well as at the Mexico Surname Project.
And my Moctezuma Forum at:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/moctezuma1
---- tony cobos wrote:
> The Romo de Vivar line, which fellow member Connie Dominguez has researched
> extensively and posted seems to be of interest to many of us (my lines
> descend from it as well). I had never heard of his excursion into Chihuahua
> but it doesn't surprise me as my direct ancestor (which I'm "stuck" on)
> Miguel de los Cobos also came from Aguascalientes to the Parral area in that
> time frame.
>
> I am new to the forum and am anxious to contribute some
> documentation/research of value. I am physically located in Austin Texas
> whihc has an extensive collection of film of the various Archivos at the
> Univeristy of Texas. Despite being at the library many times I have never
> mastered navigating thorugh those voluminous archives but if someone has
> tips for me on how to do this I'd be very appreciative (is the Archivo de
> Aguasclaientes located within another archive or is a seperate entity?) .
> Tony Cobos.
tony cobos wrote:
> I am new to the forum and am anxious to contribute some
> documentation/research of value. I am physically located in Austin
> Texas whihc has an extensive collection of film of the various
> Archivos at the Univeristy of Texas. Despite being at the library many
> times I have never mastered navigating thorugh those voluminous
> archives but if someone has tips for me on how to do this I'd be very
> appreciative (is the Archivo de Aguasclaientes located within another
> archive or is a seperate entity?) . Tony Cobos.
Well I'm not sure what film archives they have at the U of TX but at New
Mexico State University they have extensive films of the Diocesis of
Durango. (are these some of the films they have at U. of TX as well???).
If so maybe they have a finding aid similar to what NMSU offers. NMSU
has a CD for sale for less than $10 Finding Aids for this collection of
films. Even if U. of TX doesn't have that collection maybe they offer
various Finding Aids on what they do have.
I'd be interested in finding out what they own and what finding aids ara
available. Maybe if you look into this you can report back. You might
check with the special collections librarian there:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/benson/mals/mals.html
With regards to the Archivo de Aguascalientes I'm not sure exactly which
you are referring to, but films from Aguascalientes can be ordered and
viewed at your local Family History Centers in Austin:
Family History Centers in Austin, Texas, United States [refine search]
Austin Texas
1000 East Rutherford Lane
Austin, Travis, Texas, United States
Phone: 512-837-3626
Hours: M-T,Th,Sat 10am-1pm; T,Th 6pm-8:30pm; W 9am-8:30pm
Closed: Closed the last two weeks of December.
Austin Texas Oak Hills
5201 Convict Hill Road
Austin, Travis, Texas, United States
Phone: 512-892-6483
Hours: M-Sat 10am-2pm; T-Th 6pm-9pm
Closed: Closed for Major Holidays including July 4th Weekend and
Thanksgiving Weekend
Round Rock Texas
8140 Racine Trail
Austin, Williamson, Texas, United States
Phone: 512-388-1160
Hours: T, Th 10am-1pm, 6;30pm-9pm; Sat 9am-12:30pm
Closed: WEDNESDAYS during June & July 2006
Attention: Classes will be taught Fall 2006. Contact us for details.
=================
sorry to lazy to translate and that's probably why I'll not advance:
but that babelfish is cool. . .don't blame me for the good or bad
translation:
Pozo no soy seguro qué archivos de la película [microfilm-jp] tienen en
el U de TX pero en la universidad de estado de New México tienen
películas [microfilm-jp] extensas del Diocesis de Durango (son estos
algunas de las películas que tienen en el U. de TX también???). Si
tienen tan quizá un asistente que encuentra similar a lo que ofrece
NMSU. NMSU tiene un CD para la venta para menos de $10 asistentes que
encuentran para esta colección de películas. Incluso si el U. de TX no
tiene esa colección quizá ofrecen a varios asistentes que encuentran en
lo que tienen. Estaría interesado en descubrir lo que ellas poseer y el
qué encontrar ayuda al ara disponible. Quizá si usted mira en esto usted
puede divulgar detrás. Usted puede ser que compruebe con el
bibliotecario especial de las colecciones allí:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/benson/mals/mals.html En lo que respecta al
Archivo de Aguascalientes no soy seguro exactamente a que usted está
refiriendo, pero las películas de Aguascalientes se pueden pedir y ver
en sus centros locales de los antecedentes familiares en Austin: Los
antecedentes familiares se centran en Austin, Tejas, Estados Unidos [
refine la búsqueda ] El Carril Del este Austin, Travis, Tejas, Estados
Unidos De Austin Tejas 1000 Rutherford Telefona: 512-837-3626 horas: El
M-T, Th, Sentó El 10am-1pm; T, Th Los 6pm-8:30pm; W Los 9am-8:30pm Se
cerró: Cerró las dos semanas pasadas de diciembre. Las Colinas 5201 Del
Roble De Austin Tejas Condenan El Camino Austin, Travis, Tejas, Estados
Unidos De la Colina Telefonan: 512-892-6483 horas: El 10am-2pm
M-Sentado; El T-T-Th Los 6pm-9pm Se cerró: Cerrado por días de fiesta
importantes incluyendo el fin de semana de julio del 4 y el fin de
semana de Thanksgiving El Rastro Redondo Austin, Williamson, Tejas,
Estados Unidos De Tejas 8140 Racine De la Roca Telefona: 512-388-1160
horas: T, Th El 10am-1pm, Los 6;30pm-9pm; Los 9am-12:30pm Sentados Se
cerraron: MIÉRCOLES durante la atención de junio y de julio de 2006: Las
clases serán enseñadas la caída 2006. Éntrenos en contacto con para los
detalles.
The Romo de Vivar line, which fellow member Connie Dominguez has researched
extensively and posted seems to be of interest to many of us (my lines
descend from it as well). I had never heard of his excursion into Chihuahua
but it doesn't surprise me as my direct ancestor (which I'm "stuck" on)
Miguel de los Cobos also came from Aguascalientes to the Parral area in that
time frame.
I am new to the forum and am anxious to contribute some
documentation/research of value. I am physically located in Austin Texas
whihc has an extensive collection of film of the various Archivos at the
Univeristy of Texas. Despite being at the library many times I have never
mastered navigating thorugh those voluminous archives but if someone has
tips for me on how to do this I'd be very appreciative (is the Archivo de
Aguasclaientes located within another archive or is a seperate entity?) .
Tony Cobos.
>From: NathanJones
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo & Rangel across Aguascalientes,
>Jalisco,Chihuahua, Nayarit and Sinaloa.
>Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:23:41 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Dear cousins:
>
>I just got this email from a gentleman in Aguascalientes who is researching
>our same lines. He must have run across my homepage. As I understand his
>message Diego Romo de Vivar ranged over a wider area than we anticipated,
>not extending his lifestyle to Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua alone, but
>reaching as far north in Nueva Biscaya as Villa Ahumada, which he founded.
>
>If you've never been there, I highly recommend Villa Ahumada. It's the town
>that cheese built. I think Menonite Cheese, but in any case a soft, moist,
>white cheese served on a fresh hand made tortilla.
>
>Out of this world! Vendors sell them to passing cars, trains,
>busses....pedestrians! They probably sold them to passing wagon trains.
>
>All decades before Pollo Loco!
>
>Ernie: dame un poco más de información sobre los Romo de Vivar: Diego y
>Pedro. Te informo que Diego estuvo unos años en Chihuahua como
>colonizador
>y fundó lo que ahora es Villa Ahumada.. Es probable que haya dejado
>descendencia fuera de matrimonio por allá. Hay un estudio interesante de
>ese
>episodio.Tengo documentado que se casó en Aguascalientes, no en España.
>Pedro estuvo en Alamos, Sonora también como colonizador, pero al parecer
>volvió ya viejo a Teocaltiche, Jalisco. Es fundador de la mayorÃa de las
>lÃneas genealógicas de Los Altos de Jalisco y de ahÃ, de las de Sonora y
>Sinaloa. Tengo la hipótesis de que vinieron a América por que son primos
>hermanos del Capitán Juan Rincón de Vivar y el PresbÃtero Pedró Rincón
>(de
>Vivar) de Ortega, poderosÃsimo personaje que fundó el mayorazgo de los
>Rincón-Gallardo. Es probable que los Romo hayan venido a ayudar a los
>primos
>ricos y luego que sirvieron a la corona como colonizadores en las fronteras
>de los chichimecas, se asentaron en esta región como propietarios. Está
>documentado (Archivo histórico de Aguascalientes, 1654), que ambos
>estuvieron un tiempo en la costa de lo que ahora es Nayarit, junto con
>otros
>colonos del centro de Nueva Galicia, defendiendo la costa de los ataques
>piratas.
>Saludos
Mi reconocimiento a la labor desarrollada por Arturo, Joseph y todos aquellos que hacen posible que exista "Nuestros Ranchos". Coincido totalmente con los conceptos vertidos por Alicia Carrillo. Finalmente, los idiomas, como las religiones o los partidos políticos no deben ser obstáculo para el entendimiento. Sin embargo "hablando el mismo idioma", podremos entendernos mejor. Saludos y enhorabuena.
Hello everyone,
My name is Leticia Salazar, and I am new to this group, I joined the group
in hope of extending my familytree and helping others do the same. My
research began back in 2000 after I purchased a book for my mother on genealogy,
Leticia,
Welcome to the group, I took a quick look at your GEDCOM file and we share alot of the same surnames Berumen, De La Torre, Nava, Sliva, Gonzales and possibly more. Will look at your file much closer to see what direct lines we may share.
Possible New Prima
Sally Zuniga-Quinones
Lettyinmay@aol.com wrote:
Hello everyone,
My name is Leticia Salazar, and I am new to this group, I joined the group
in hope of extending my familytree and helping others do the same. My
research began back in 2000 after I purchased a book for my mother on genealogy,
(Filigranas, Fundaciones y Genealogias de Tepetongo, Jerez Zac.) by Jose
Leon Robles De La Torre, although the book contains many families including my
Parents, many of the family tree are wrong. I am hoping one day write my own
book and include not only genealogies but also life and struggles that lead
families to this country.
I have created a PAF5 that contains over 1,000 names, if anyone is from
Municipio de Tepetongo Zac, I am more than willing to share my info.
At this time I have a couple of questions for anyone from this area, I am
stuck on two names, Pantaleona Carlos who history claims was married to a Rafael
Felix back in 1790, although there are many Rafael Felix I can't find any
concrete evidence they were married. I would really appreciate anyones help.
thank you very much
Leticia
Leticia,
You had asked about two names you were stuck on: Rafael Felis married to a Panaleona Carlos. Since I am also researching my own Rafael Felis from the Tepetongo area (married to Maria Gregoria Soriano), I have transcribed some marriages from film # 0445236 Tepetongo Marriages 1816-1849. There is an entry in that film for February 5, 1842 when a Rafael Felis (who lived in La Estancia) age 23, married Dona Ana Josefa Berumen, age 17, also of La Estancia. Rafael's parents were Don Rafael Felis (defunto) and Dona Pantaleona Carlos. Ana Josefa's parents were Juan Jose Berumen and Maria Antonia de la Torre. Their padrinos were Francisco Felis and Maria del Rosario de la Torre. Other "testigos" were Lucio de Asevedo (of La Tinaja), Jorge Gonsales (of La Tinaja), Jesus de Nava (of Juanchorrey), and Don Marcial Mejia and Joaquin Castaneda.
In http://jerezzacatecas.galeon.com/archivo/paternidad/df.htm there is an entry for another Felis-Carlos union: "FELIX, Manuel,, espanol, originario, viudo ha un a~no de Maria Catalina Carlos.----en la iglesia parroquial de Jerez el 19 de abril de 1762 con Olalla Rosalia Folores, espanola, originaria y vecina de la villa de Jerez, e hija legitima de Antonio Flores y de Maria de la Candelaria de Silva, Padrinos: Augustin Felix y Marcela Guzman. Testigos: Marcos de los Reyes y Fermin de los Reyes". This Manuel Felix and Maria Catalina Carlos may have been related to your couple.
There were many Felis families around the communities attached to Tepetongo and Jerez, and mine are the "Felis y Tinajero" or "Felis de Tinajero". I think there are other Felis that went by "Felis y Arellano" or "Felis de Arellano".
I have run into your couple in another instance I think, and when I find more transcribed records on them I will let you know.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Sally Quinones
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
Leticia,
Welcome to the group, I took a quick look at your GEDCOM file and we share alot of the same surnames Berumen, De La Torre, Nava, Sliva, Gonzales and possibly more. Will look at your file much closer to see what direct lines we may share.
Possible New Prima
Sally Zuniga-Quinones
Lettyinmay@aol.com wrote:
Hello everyone,
My name is Leticia Salazar, and I am new to this group, I joined the group
in hope of extending my familytree and helping others do the same. My
research began back in 2000 after I purchased a book for my mother on genealogy,
(Filigranas, Fundaciones y Genealogias de Tepetongo, Jerez Zac.) by Jose
Leon Robles De La Torre, although the book contains many families including my
Parents, many of the family tree are wrong. I am hoping one day write my own
book and include not only genealogies but also life and struggles that lead
families to this country.
I have created a PAF5 that contains over 1,000 names, if anyone is from
Municipio de Tepetongo Zac, I am more than willing to share my info.
At this time I have a couple of questions for anyone from this area, I am
stuck on two names, Pantaleona Carlos who history claims was married to a Rafael
Felix back in 1790, although there are many Rafael Felix I can't find any
concrete evidence they were married. I would really appreciate anyones help.
thank you very much
Leticia
Leticia,
I belive we are related with our Gonzales and Berumen surnames. My gt gtgrandmother was Juana Maria Gonzales older sister to a Jose Lucas Gonzales you have in your files.How is he related to you? My Berumen starts with my ancestor Petra Serena Berumes(n). My information on my Gonzales, Zuniga, and Nava are in my file folder.
Sally Zuniga-Quinones
Sally Quinones wrote:
Leticia,
Welcome to the group, I took a quick look at your GEDCOM file and we share alot of the same surnames Berumen, De La Torre, Nava, Sliva, Gonzales and possibly more. Will look at your file much closer to see what direct lines we may share.
Possible New Prima
Sally Zuniga-Quinones
Lettyinmay@aol.com wrote:
Hello everyone,
My name is Leticia Salazar, and I am new to this group, I joined the group
in hope of extending my familytree and helping others do the same. My
research began back in 2000 after I purchased a book for my mother on genealogy,
(Filigranas, Fundaciones y Genealogias de Tepetongo, Jerez Zac.) by Jose
Leon Robles De La Torre, although the book contains many families including my
Parents, many of the family tree are wrong. I am hoping one day write my own
book and include not only genealogies but also life and struggles that lead
families to this country.
I have created a PAF5 that contains over 1,000 names, if anyone is from
Municipio de Tepetongo Zac, I am more than willing to share my info.
At this time I have a couple of questions for anyone from this area, I am
stuck on two names, Pantaleona Carlos who history claims was married to a Rafael
Felix back in 1790, although there are many Rafael Felix I can't find any
concrete evidence they were married. I would really appreciate anyones help.
thank you very much
Leticia
Welcome to the group!
What are some of the surnames you are researching?
I too am researching in that area of Zacatecas...
- Angie Godina
Arturo, thanks for the website it was very helpful unfortunate Pantaleona
Carlos (
b-1790 aprox )still missing in action.
also can you contact me on uploading my paf.
Letty
Welcome to the group. There are a number of us in the group that have
extensive family backgrounds in the southern Zacatecas/northern Jalisco area
that includes Tepetongo.
Just as a wild guess to help you with Pantaleona... the name Carlos in the
region originates with a Juan Carlos de Godoy who was born circa 1600 and
lived in Jerez, Zacatecas. He had several children with Maria Rosales. Some
of his descendants ended up with the name Carlos and others with Godoy...
Susana Leneski has documented the man's descendancy through marriage
dispensations very well. The Spanish families in Jerez in that time
intermarried a lot which leaves a lot of genealogical information behind from
the dispensations for cosanguinity.
http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I97
If you would like to share all of the data that you have in your PAF, I would
be more than happy to help you convert it to GEDCOM and upload it to the site
GEDCOM database which would allow other members to view it, but not download
it. The database is only available to members.
=====================
From: Lettyinmay@aol.com
Date: 2006/07/16 Sun PM 11:53:58 CDT
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: lettyinmay@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
Hello everyone,
My name is Leticia Salazar, and I am new to this group, I joined the group
in hope of extending my familytree and helping others do the same. My
research began back in 2000 after I purchased a book for my mother on
genealogy,
(Filigranas, Fundaciones y Genealogias de Tepetongo, Jerez Zac.) by Jose
Leon Robles De La Torre, although the book contains many families including
my
Parents, many of the family tree are wrong. I am hoping one day write my
own
book and include not only genealogies but also life and struggles that lead
families to this country.
I have created a PAF5 that contains over 1,000 names, if anyone is from
Municipio de Tepetongo Zac, I am more than willing to share my info.
At this time I have a couple of questions for anyone from this area, I am
stuck on two names, Pantaleona Carlos who history claims was married to a
Rafael
Felix back in 1790, although there are many Rafael Felix I can't find any
concrete evidence they were married. I would really appreciate anyones
help.
thank you very much
Leticia
Saludos a todo el Grupo. Les comunico que desde ayer tienen a su disposición mi modesto trabajo de investigación relacionado con los MARQUEZ, ROBLES, RODRIGUEZ, VILLAOSLADO de Tepetongo, Zac. y los JUAREZ, VIDAL, HARO, ESPITIA de Jeréz, Zac. Agradeceré las correcciones, adiciones y sugerencias al mismo. El documento está disponible para todos bajo el título
El archivo de Salvador esta ubicado en una carpeta en la seccion de Genealogias de Miembros:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14814
Salvador's file is located in a file folder in the Member's Genealogy category of the files section:
Chilarillo