Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi, I'm new to the group and hope that someone can tell me where else to look for the marriage record of Rafael Luna and Maria del Refugio. They were supposedly married on 8 July 1839 at Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco, however that particular year is missing from the parish registers on FamilySearch. I checked through some years before as well as some years following that date. I also checked the Información matrimonial records twice but couldn't find anything for this couple. I'm new to research in Mexico and would appreciate any advice on where to look next.

Message from Mónica mony7979@...

Hi, Mu name is Monica Medina, i'm mexican currently living in
Montpellier, France.

I've started my genealogical research and I have roots in Zacatecas,
this are the names:

Ines de la Rosa Sandoval (my greatgrand mother) was daugther of Juan
de la Rosa and Narcisa Sandoval. They come from Fresnillo, Zacatecas
I haven't found more information on dates, but I keep on researching.

Also, for the family of my mom I know that Ontiveros surname comes
from Zacatecas, but i'm not 100% sure, does anyones knows if this is
true?

Thank you,
Monica

de Juan (Johan) de FRIAS Bardal y de Alfonsina de la PAZ (Rivera de la Paz) casados en Tlatenango, Zac.

Dear Members:

Over the next couple of weeks we will be working to upgrade the software that the Nuestros Ranchos website runs on to make it more secure and stable. There may be brief unannounced interruptions with the site but we will try to keep them to a minimum. At the end of the process we will likely have to take the site down for several hours to complete the process. We will try to keep this time as short as possible and will let everyone know in advance. If you would would like to volunteer to be a tester of the new site please send a private email (i.e. not through the list or website) to moderator at nuestrosranchos dot com.

Estimados miembros:

Durante las próximas dos o tres semanas estaremos trabajando para modernizar el paquete de software del sitio de Nuestros Ranchos para asegurar que el sitio sea más seguro y estable. Es posible que haya interrupciones del sitio sin anuncio previo pero intentaremos mantener tales interrupciones a lo mínimo posible. Al fin del proceso será necesario bajar el sitio por varias horas para completar el proceso. Haremos lo posible para mantener este periodo lo más corto posible y haremos un anuncio antes de hacerlo. So gustaría ser voluntario para probar el nuevo sitio, por favor envíe un correo-e privadamente (o sea no a través de la listo e el sitio) a moderator arroba nuestrosranchos punto com.

Does anyone know if there are 17th and 18th century census lists of haciendas in Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, and Jalisco? I have reached a dead end in searching for Aguayos in San Jose de Gracia, Aguascalientes at about 1800. Since some of my ancestors are listed as indios, I thought I may be able to find them listed on haciendo roles, if such a thing exists.

-----Original Message-----
From: mex-jalisco-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:mex-jalisco-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of
mex-jalisco-request@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 3:00 AM
To: mex-jalisco@rootsweb.com
Subject: MEX-JALISCO Digest, Vol 8, Issue 53

Today's Topics:

1. Colotlan Bautismos de hijos legmtimos 1894-1899 - Rough Table
of Contents of Images (gc-gateway@rootsweb.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 23:27:32 -0000
From: "gc-gateway@rootsweb.com"
Subject: Colotlan Bautismos de hijos legmtimos 1894-1899 - Rough Table
of Contents of Images
To:
Message-ID: <1385767654.45295@rootsweb.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.

Author: wwjohnston
Surnames:
Classification: queries

Message Board URL:

http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.mexico.jalisco/1029/mb.as…

Message Board Post:

I have had to go through the FamilySearch collection labeled "Bautismos de
hijos legmtimos 1894-1899" for Colotlan's San Luis Obispo church. And I
learned how the collection of 621 images is organized. So in case anyone
else is looking at this same book, here is what I found.

The baptisms cover from 1894 Sep 1 to 1899 Nov 5.

Here is the URL to image 1:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-86503-93

The collection consists of three separate books of baptisms:

- 1894 Sep 1 to 1896 Mar 31: Image 7 to 231
Index: Img 8 to 24
records: Img 26 to 231
Appendix: Img 231 (names of persons baptized here that are not found in
the archive: Antonio Calderon casado en Jerez el 9 de Agosto 1920 con
Florensia Carrillo)

- 1896 Apr 1 to 1898 Jan 16: Img 235 to 436
Index: Img 236 to 251
Appendix: Img 251 (Rafael Valdez hijo de Bernabe y Maria Garcia caso con
Maria Medrano en la Iglesia de Banning, Cal. el dia 10 de Febrero de 1924.
Records: Img 252 to 436

- 1898 Jan 16 to 1899 Nov 5: Img 440 to 619
Index: Img 441 to 459
Appendix: Img 460 (names not encountered: Margarito Gaeta casado en
?Mirmar?, con Carolina Rosales el 20 ?Febr? 1920 Ma. Refugio Navarro H. L.
de Santiago y Guadalupe Sandoval: casada en esta con Ventura de Santiago el
2 de Abril de 1923)
Records: Img 461 to 619
Records: 461 to 619

The numbering of baptisms in the books begins with 1 for each book. So the
numbering is not for each year.

The indexes are simply the chronological listing of the name of each
baptized child for each initial surname letter. Thus you must search the
entire S list for a Salazar baptism, since they are not in alphabetical
order within the initial surname letters.

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End of MEX-JALISCO Digest, Vol 8, Issue 53
******************************************

Buenas Noches,

Alguien podría ayudarme a leer el documento que sigue:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15671-17766-29?cc=1804458&wc…

Quisiera saber si los padres mencionados son Juan Cruz Duran y Fernanda Chavez (great great grandparents) padres de Calletana Duran? Es posible que tambien son los padres de Jose Cruz Duran Chavez, quien es el padre de Delfino Duran. Si son los mismos, los abuelos paternos son mis 3x abuelos.

Alguien ha encontrado documentos que podrían ayudarme para agregarlos a mi familia?

Gracias!

Rosalva

Do you have a list of the La Estancias ... in and around Nochistlan?

Sincerely,

Charles Clark

Charles, there is one called "La Estancia" and another is "La Estancia de Luis de Velazco", in addition to "La Estancia de los Delgadillos," which I sent to you earlier.

As I go through my data and once I have more complete information i will get it to you. I will have to say that the most common that I have seen is just plain "Estancia," followed by La Estanica de los Delgadillos which has many Rodriguez y Ulloa, family connections. Much of this informaion about the different generations can be found in
a book titled, "Nochistlan, Zacatecas,Su Parroquia, Los Duran y otras familias antiguas, which I borrowed from my sister's friend.

As I get more info I will forward it to you.
Alicia

Hello. I just started researching my family history and was wondering if you have any of my relatives in your family tree. Most lived in several "municipios" of Nochistlan as well as Apozol and Jalpa. Recently I found out I may have had relatives in el Rancho de los Duranes. The following is all I have so far on the Duran side of my family.

1. Delfino Duran, born 1915 in Nochistlan, died 1960-62 in Las Taunas, Jalpa, ZA. He was the son of 2. Cruz Duran and 3. Juana Esquibel. He married Sebastiana Ruiz in Nochistlan, daughter of Martin Ruiz and Gregoria Valdez. Sebastiana, born 20 Jan 1914 in El Aguacate, Nochistlan, ZA, died 3 March 2007 in Agua Rica, Ixtlahuacan del Rio, Jalisco.

2. Cruz Duran was born in Tlachichila, Zacatecas.
3. Juana Esquibel was born in Zacatecas.

Children of Juana Esquibel and Cruz Duran are:
1. Ismael Duran, born 1912 in Zacatecas. He married Guadalupe Duran, daughter of Esmeregildo
Duran and Apolinaria. Esmeregildo Duran later married Angelita.
2. Delfino Duran (mentioned above).
3. M Soledad Duran (1930 Mexico Census lists 1915 as her estimated birth year.)
4. Maria Duran (1930 Mexico Census lists 1919 as her estimated birth year.)
5. Leandra Duran

Ismael, M Soledad and Maria Duran are listed in the 1930 Mexico Census at:
"Mexico Census, 1930," index and images, FamilySearch
(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MPT9-X7T : accessed 18 Nov 2012), Ismael Duran in
household of Ismael Duran, El Aguacate, Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico.

This is about all I have so far. I'm contacting a great aunt in Nochistlan, on Sebastiana's family line, to try to get more information. I don't know her, but recently acquired her last known phone number.
Rosalva Jordan

Hello friends

Hope everyone is well and having great success with their research. I recently received my Y-DNA results which shows that I match haplogroup R1b1a2 (shorthand R-M269). Thought I share my results along with my ancestry research. Hopefully this will help confirm or extend the Perez/Burgueno line.

Best Regards
Austin Perez

1. my 7X grandparents: Sebastian Perez d. before 1675 (or possibly Juan Perez de Ornelas, Leonor's second husband) m. Leonor Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba

2. Marcos Perez (bap. 5 Feb 1674 in Teocaltiche) m. Maria Lopez de Lizalde
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18573-15894-7?cc=1874591&wc=…

3. Marcos Perez (bap. 20 Sep 1717) m. 20 Apr 1755 in Santa Maria de los Labos to Maria Antonia Magdaleno aka Maria Antonia de Dondiego
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18560-24562-16?cc=1874591&wc…

4. Jose Luciano Perez aka Jose de Ornelas (bap. 26 Jan 1760) m. 04 Feb 1788 in La Encarnacion to Maria de los Dolores Ortega
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-59354-57?cc=1874591&wc…

5. Jose Pablo Perez (bap. 29 Jun 1797) m. 10 Feb 1819 in La Encarnacion to Ines Silvestre
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-55503-12?cc=1874591&wc…

6. Pedro Perez (bap. 28 Oct 1821) m. 12 Feb 1851 in La Encarnacion to Alvina Chavez
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-32262-59?cc=1874591&wc…

7. Benigno Perez (bap. 18 Feb 1855) m. 12 Feb 1877 in La Encarnaion to Hilaria de Leon
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18559-3940-2?cc=1874591&wc=1…

8. my grandparents: Matilde Perez (bap. 17 Mar 1894) m. 10 Oct 1914 in Rangel to Maria Juana Briones
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-10672-92?cc=1874591&wc…

Por aqui en el Foro no hace mucho me tope con un tema donde alguien comentaba tener algunos manuscritos de uno de los hijos de Jose Ana Gutierrez donde narraba sus vivencias desde la infancia con sus papas y hermanos, alguien tiene conocimiento de esto? no he podido localizar donde o quien comento esto..Saludos a todos!

Hello, I have been trying to find my great great grandfather for some time now with no success. He has a more common name than some of my other ancestors whom I have already discovered. I am looking for Juan Perez. What suggestions would anyone have on trying to find him? I have tried looking via his wife, no results. I have tried his children, no results. I have tried the surrounding areas of his children's baptism records, nothing. The time frame of his birth is around 1856.

Thank you,

Kristine

Este apellido es de esta zona, alguien tiene referencia sobre este apellido.

Hello Everyone,

I encountered a brick wall on my mother's maternal grandfather's ancestors. They were Mariana de Lomeli and Juan de Dios Gimenez married on Feb 22,1713 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, they were from Mexticacan,Jalisco. I can't go any further,because they do not list their parents. There is some hints in there marriage record. Their padrinos seem to be Gaspar de Lomeli and Maria Rosa (Quesada?). They are my ancestors through their daughter Juana (Josepha) Jimenez who married Jose Francisco de Xauregui in Nochistlan on 01 Marzo 1743.

Here is the link to the marriage record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-52117-21?cc=1804458&wc…

I would greatly appreciate your help.

Thank you

Roberto Rosales Villalpando
Riverside,CA

I took another look at what Chipman says in "Moctezuma's Children" concerning the litigation concerning Tacuba and Ecatepec in an attempt to focus research efforts in the search for documents naming Petronila de Moctezuma.

The Tacuba litigation was in the early 1550s (Chipman is not more specific), with Diego Arias de Sotelo apparently being the primary litigant attempting to get the revenue from Tacuba for Leonore de Moctezuma (his mother-in-law). He was unsuccessful. The current estimate for the birthdate of Petronila is about 1558, thus it seems unlikely that the Tacuba litigation would name her.

Certain territories were included in the Ecatepec grant by Cortes, which resulted in litigation by the indian officials of Tenochtitlan and Tlalteloco. The litigation covered the period 1531 to the early 1560s. There were mixed results. The heirs of Leonore de Moctezuma won a victory with regard to Acalhuacan in 1553, the indians of Tlalteloco appealed/protested, the litigation continued for almost another 10 years before being decided in favor of Moctezuma's heirs in 1561. Petronila de Moctezuma may have been born near the end of this period (1558?) and thus might be named in the record.

Documents concerning the Avila-Cortes conspiracy, in which Diego Arias de Sotelo was implicated, could also name his family members: we did learn things about his second wife, and the his parents. Petronila would have been alive during this time.

Unfortunately, Chipman does not cite primary sources in this part of the history which makes it difficult to go directly the original records. His primary citation seems to be Charles Gibson, "The Aztecs Under Spanish Rule: A History of the Indians of the Valley of Mexico, 1519-1810." This seems to be available in many libraries according to Worldcat (although I have not seen it yet). He also cites some of the works of Amada Lopez de Meneses (which I've also not found in a library yet), and "Noticia historica" by Orozco y Berra which was cited in detail in the recent Petronila de Moctezuma discussion (available from Google books as a free download).

Thus perhaps some of the files of this litigation and the Avila-Cortes conspiracy proceedings would be the place to look.

These files in the aggregate are possibly thousands of pages.

I do not know how much, if any, of these documents have been digitized and are available through PARES. I took a quick look, but with no real success ... hits in numerous files, but often not digitized. I have looked at some documents from the mid 1500s, and I find them rather difficult to read, the handwriting is a real challenge (and I admit my Spanish is very limited): the handwriting is quite different than that of the church records 1600s.

Does anyone have ideas on how to proceed?

George Fulton
Pleasanton

Hello everyone:

This is my first post onto the forum. Both my husband and I are looking forward to being a part of the group. I have been researching my husband's family for an exciting,interesting and very challenging 8 years. We are looking forward to reading and connecting with other enthusiasts.

I found a second earlier marriage certificate for my 5X Candido de Aguallo marrying a Anna Gertudis Ballejo on 18 Dec.1753. On this certificate, it states hijo legitimo de Diego Aguallo (Defunto)and Francisca Becerra. I earlier found on Familysearch him marrying Maria Gomez de Mendoza (abt. 1795). It stated both sets of parents. Francisco Gomez de Mendoza (Maria Martin del Campo) and Diego de Aguayo (Francisca Veserra). Anna Gertudis Ballejo parents were Lucas Ballejo and Thomasa Herrera. So, this kind of verfies that the parents for Candido were correct. Does any of this ring a bell??? I know there was at least two Diego de Aguayo in Nochistlan, Zac. Sounds like Candido was about 60 years old when he married Maria Gomez De Mendoza. Her parents were very established and well to do. Any help really appreciated.

Jaime Gonzalez

The book "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia: Expedientes de la serie de matrimonios extractos siglos XVII-XVIII" by Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton, which has been out of print for some time, can be downloaded from Family Search.

From the Family Search splash page, click on "Search," then "Books." Type "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara" in the search field, and then click search.

Then, from the list of search results click on the title "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia: Expedientes de la serie de matrimonios extractos siglos XVII-XVIII" and the book should download.

The book will download as a searchable pdf; however, the OCR, while reasonably good, is not perfect, thus searching on a name will not necessarily find every instance. The book does have an index, so that is not a significant inconvenience. You can also copy the text that was recognized by the OCR process and paste it into other documents: this is also subject to the OCR recognition (unrecognized text remains as an image).

George Fulton
Pleasanton

Hola primos,

Thanks to Armando, we now have the missing piece linking my maternal grandfather, Jose Refugio Gonzalez Hermosillo, to the genearca of the Gonzalez de Hermosillo de los Altos, Juan Gonzalez and his wife, Maria Muñoz. We descend from their son, Diego Yldephonzo Ramirez de Pedrozo, and through the next three generations of Diego Yldephonzo Gonzalez de Hermosillo's, following their path from Jalostotitlan, through various ranchos in Teocaltiche, Asientos, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos and finally, Pinos. From there, we descend from the first of three Vicente Gonzalez de Hermosillo's, who married Juana Dorothea Diaz de Leon, in Jan 1764. Again, thanks to Armando for locating their Informacion Matrimonial, which hadn't been indexed.

In close, one of my five Hermosillo uncles will be participating in the Y-DNA39 project, to verify my work, and hopefully to provide a sample.

Mil Gracias,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
JRefugioGHermosillo

Other surnames included are Ramirez-Torres, Muñoz de Nava, Alderete, Cabrera-Plasencia Maldonado, Davila, Gil de Esparza and Sanchez de le Mejorada:

Juan Gonzalez & Maria Muñoz m. Guadalcanal, Sevilla antes de Extremadura, España.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/19948#comment-21858

Diego Ildefonso Ramirez del Pedrozo & Paula Ramirez Torres
Proof of genealogy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-37884-27?cc=1874591&wc…

Diego Ildefonso Gonzalez & Luisa Muñoz de Nava m. 23 Feb 1645
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-2338-11?cc=1874591&wc=…
Proof of genealogy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-37884-27?cc=1874591&wc…

Diego Ildefonso Gonzalez & Juana de Alderete m. 19 Feb 1669 Teocaltiche
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-3066-6?cc=1874591&wc=1…
Proof of genealogy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-37884-27?cc=1874591&wc…

Diego Ildefonso Gonzalez & Lorenza Manuela Cabrera m. 13 May 1716 Asientos
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11877-64280-42?cc=1502404&…
Información Matrimonial https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11132-148155-54?cc=1502404…

Vicente Gonzalez & Juana Dorothea Díaz de Leon married about Jan 1764
Información Matrimonial https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15243-320-34?cc=1804458&wc=M…

Rafael Gonzalez & Maria Dolores de Avila m 25 Nov 1798, Pinos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15272-51812-83?cc=1804458&wc…

Juan Gonzalez & Asuncion Gil de Esparza, b. 02 Apr 1805, Aguascalientes; m3 Asuncion Gil Esparza, c. 1829, probably in Pinos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11631-273053-80?cc=1502404…
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15257-11764-9?cc=1804458&wc=…

Antonio Gonzalez & Susana Sanchez, m. 20 Jun 1869, Pinos
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15242-652-90?cc=1804458&wc=M…

Jose Refugio Gonzalez Hermosillo & Anita Olivas de Hermosillo, m. 1932, Hanford, California.

Hello everyone,

I am having the hardest time trying to fit Francisca into the Ruis De Esparsa family of Aguascalientes. I have their marriage record, but it does not list their parents. She can't be the same Francisca born in September of 1655 because that Francisca was having children at the same time as my Francisca was. I've been stuck on this fr many years and hope someone can help me knock down this brick wall.

Thank you so much,
Norberto M. Morales III

hello Felix,

I worked on the family tree of a first cousin of yours named Graciela. Her mother is a daughter of Nicolas De la Torre and Maria de la Luz Martin.

I did gracielas paternal line and she is my 4th cousin repeatedly through the romo, Gutierrez, and Jimenez lines.
She and you are my 6th cousins through her maternal maternal great grandmother Maria del Refugio Perez Gutierrez who was married to Celso Martin. 6th cousins 6 times total 5 times through the Perez Franco lines and one time a 6th cousin through the Gutierrez line.
Of Maria del Refugio Perez's mother line I have lines going back 5 more generations, of her father lines it goes much further back

I have no information on Celso Martin or his ancestors except that he is married to Maria del Refugio Perez

I have no information on Sixto De la torre or his wife Rosalia Martin/martinez.

I was hoping you could help me with Nicolas s line and Celso Martin. as to Maria del Refugio Perez's ancestors I can provide you with my work.
thanks R.A Ricci

Hola a todos,

He estado recabando más documentos para respaldar mi información y no he podido encontrar el acta de bautismo de algunos de mis antepasados, pero conozco la identidad de sus padres porque cuando se casaron declararon quienes eran o bien los mencionan como los abuelos de sus hijos en sus actas de bautismo respectivas.

Mi duda aquí es que tan frecuente les sucede a ustedes esto? el hecho de no encontrar el acta de bautismo de ellos me daría la sospecha de pensar de que quiénes ellos dicen ser sus padres en realidad no lo eran? La mayoría de los casos tengo a los padres legalmente casados bautizando hijos legítimos pero no aparece el nombre de quien yo desciendo, sin embargo en ocasiones hay espacios de años donde cabría el nacimiento de mi antepasado. En casos más raros, tengo las fechas de nacimientos de todos los hermanos de mi antepasado y sus nacimientos son tan seguidos que no cabría la posibilidad que naciera entre ellos, por lo que la sospecha es aún mayor. Me gustaría saber que les ha sucedido en su experiencia personal para poder estar más confiado de que estoy siguiendo una línea genealógica segura.

Mi otra pregunta es si alguien sabe algo sobre la Familia Carlos de Godoy. Por lo que he visto tuvieron su cuna en Zacatecas y están bien documentadas las primeras generaciones, sin embargo no logro conectar a mi antepasada María Antonia Carlos de Godoy que residía en Cocula junto a su esposo Nicolás López, quién murió en dicho lugar en 1737. Me imagino que María Antonia debió nacer por 1700 en otro lugar porque era la única de ese apellido en Cocula, lamentablemente sólo tengo el acta de defunción de su esposo y el acta de matrimonio de su hijo, José López Carlos de Godoy que casó en 1759 con Micaela Gertrudis de Estrada y Banda. Al no tener un acta de matrimonio de bautismo de esta pareja que me ayude, mi única sospecha es que María Antonia podría ser hermana de María Magdalena Carlos de Godoy que casó con Andrés de Robles Rebolledo en 1722 en Guadalajara. En esa acta dice ser hija de Antonio Carlos de Godoy y de Ana de Aro, originaria de la Ciudad de Zacatecas, criada desde niña en Ameca y residente en la Ciudad Guadalajara. Espero alguien pueda brindarme más pistas en el asunto.

Gracias de antemano,
Enrique Agraz

The parentage of the Gabadi sisters continues to be a subject of much discussion. I do not have any answers, but I do have much of the documentation that is discussed on the Research List. 

ITEM (1) of Armando's post: I have no knowledge of this document. 

ITEM (2) of Armando's post: This document, alleged to be from 1574, can be found at PARES . If you want to find it the long way, go to PARES . Select "Busqueda Avanzada" on the button bar. Go down to FILTRO POR ARCHIVO and select "Archivo General de Indias" from the pull-down menu. A second pull-down menu will appear beneath the first. Select "Mapas y Planos" from the second pull-down menu. Now go to the section just below, FILTRO POR SIGNATURA, and enter "MP-ESCUDOS,211" in the text field. If that doesn't work, click on the Seleccionar button. Once you get to the next page, go to the bottom of the list and click on the tiny red down-arrow to scroll the list. Click the "+" button next to MP-ESCUDOS. A list of document numbers will appear below MP-ESCUDOS. Use the red arrow again to scroll down until you see 211 and click on
211. That will take you back to the search page. Click on the Buscar button at the bottom of the page. That will bring up a page with the document listed. You can get document information by clicking on the title. You can view the document by clicking on the little camera icon in the DIG. column. MP-ESCUDOS,212 is another genealogy, principally for Isabel Moctezuma. MP-ESCUDO,197 is a general chart dated 1817 depicting Moctezuma's descendants. Mariana is listed, but none of her descendants are listed. MP-ESCUDO,211 would be a natural continuation of this chart.

ITEM (3) of Armando's post: Mariana Moctezuma, child of Moctezuma II and Acatlan, was married to Cristobal Valderrama. Mariana and Cristobal had one child, Leonor. Leonor married Diego Arias Sotelo. Diego was exiled to what is now Algeria for his role in the Avila-Cortes Conspiracy (his brother was executed). According the "Moctezuma's Children" by Donald E. Chipman (2005), Leonor Valderrama and Diego Arias Sotelo had 3 children: Fernando (the only one to have children), Ana (a nun), and Cristobal. If Petronila Moctezuma is a descendant of Moctezuma II and Acatlan, Her parents would have to be Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma and Diego Arias Sotelo. According to Chipman, the children of Leonor were constantly in court trying to win control of their grandmother's encomiendo. I suppose that there are reasons that Petronila might not have been mentioned in these proceedings (Leonor willed her estate to her 3 children equally), but it seems odd. The children also
fought among themselves for control of the encomiendo. Ana, a nun, gave control of her third to Fernando. Cristobal's widow fought for his third, plus half of Ana's. Having gotten full control of the encomiendo, Fernando's children sold it, so that it passed out of the family completely.

ITEM (4) of Armando's post: The dispensation referred to is widely available in the ether and can be found at the FamilySearch.org site (Film Number 168605 - FamilySearch.org: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1995, Guadalajara, Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1700-1705, Image 316 of 625). One other document, the 1677 will of Juan Siordia, daughter of Maria Gabadi and Pedro Fernandez de Vaulus, gives Maria's name as Maria Gabai Moctezuma. The will is available from the Digital Archives of Aguascalientes . Click the Login button. Enter sigue.publica as the User Name and publica as the Password. Click the Login button. In the index that comes up, right-click (two-finger-click on Mac) on the entry SSG-ARCHIVO-HISTORICO - ACERVOS COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX to get a pop-up menu. Select New Query from the menu. In the page that comes up next, enter JUANA DE SIORDIA in the text field for
CONTRATANTES. Click the Submit button and you will be taken to the first page of the will.

To me, the question of Petronila's ancestry is still up in the air. I'm with the camp that says that unless I have hard documentation on the subject, I remain skeptical.

Scott Stockwell

Hello,

I have been unable to acquire Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales." Author is Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Friasso I am submitting this request to the community to ask if anyone has the book to get in touch with me because I am trying to get information in capitulo on descendants of tejada delgadillo, in Capítulo 51 Descendencia de Esteban de Tejeda y Luisa Delgadillo o Bellocillo. Any knowledge on this couple would be appreciated such as ancestors, etc.

Thanks,

Miri12

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-23732-13?cc=1874591&wc…

i found this doucment, and i wonder if he's a grandson of hernan gonzales and maria cid. i'm having a hard time reading this, can anyone give me more details about what this doucment is about.