Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi George,
I don't know of a book, but the National Geographic Genographic Project website has a lot of information (in layman's terms), and includes a few interested graphics.

I would start looking there.
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html

Here is their list of publications for further reading:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/resources…

I hope this helps.
-C

Algunos registros estan en Teul De Gonzales Ortega, Zacatecas, si es que estamos
hablando de la Estanzuela Zacatecas, cerca de la Ceja.
Anna Arellano Smith
Yuba City, Ca

________________________________
From: "juan.alvarez@sanmina-sci.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 5:39:32 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Registros de La Estanzuela hoy Garcia de la Cadena
Zacatecas

Alguien sabe donde estan los registros de La Estanzuela? Saben si la iglesia de
los mormones hizo la filmacion de los registros de este lugar? Por mas que busco
no los he encontrado, solo registros parciales en Mezquital del Oro.

Gracias

Anyone know where the parish records of the Estanzuela are? Know if the Mormon
church made the filming of the records of this place? For more searching I have
not found, only partial records in  Mezquital del Oro

Thanks

Finado/Finada definitely means deceased. It actually is a fairly common term
even though in church records the term difunto is used for the most part.
The online dictionary of the Royal Academy of Spanish is a great place to
look up terms in many cases.
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=finado

Regards
Armando

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:46 AM, wrote:

> I've found the phrase, "de la finada" recently in some marriage records and
> I'm not familiar with the phrase. It typically appears in front of a
> mother's name when naming parents in a marriage record. Like, "Jose Mendes
> y la finada Dolores Zamora..." It sounds like a reference to someone being
> deceased, but I've not previously seen or heard that term so applied and
> could not get any of the online translators to confirm.
> Can anyone tell me if I'm on the right track?
>
> Thanks so much!
> Annette

Gloria, have you considered variations of their names? While I didn't find
marriage dates for these couples, their children might offer an approximate
date to look into, such as Informacion Matrimonial, etc.

Some of these children you may already have but here's what I found:
Alvino Rozendo *Salbio Angeles*, his parents: *Mariano Salbio y Feliciana De
Los Angeles*
He was christened 3 Mar 1866, Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco [Batch C604386
(1862-1869) film #0282302].
Amelia *Salvia Angel*, her parents: *Mariano Salvia y Feliciana Angel*
christened 1 Dec 1870, Teuchitlan, Jalisco [Batch K603194 (1865-1871) film
#044067].
Anselma *Salvio Angel*, her parents: *Mariano Salvia y Feliciana Angel*
christened June 1873, Ahalulco de Mercado, Jalisco [Batch K604387
(1869-1875) film #0282303].
Maria Leonor *Salvia*, ch. 26 Dec 1885, Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco [Batch
102898-1 Image 6161, record #550, location source 835 INDEX05]. Her
parents: *Mariano Salvia y Felisiana Angel.*
For *Jose Mariano Salvio Zalazar *I found he was christened *3 November
1834, Teuchitlan, Jalisco* [Batch #J603192 (1832-1846) film # 0440645], and
a sister by the name of *Ricarda Salvio, ch. 5 apr. 1830, Teuchitlan,
Jalisco *[Batch #K603192 (1832-1846) film #0440645] This lists her parents
as *Jose Salvio y Paula Anselma
*
Let me know if this helps.
-Esther Jordan Lopez

2011/5/27

> Necesito ayuda para encontar un bath number de los matrimonios en
> teuchitlan, solo cuento con el numero de serie es el 440684. que corresponde
> al libro de matrimonios en teuchitlan de 1832 - 1874.
>
>
> Les agradezco de antemano toda la ayuda que me puedan dar, ya que de no
> consiguirlo tendre que revisar muchas paginas con las que cuenta el libro.
> busco los matrimonio Jose Bernardo Salvio con Paula Anselma Zalazar
> Castellanos y de Jose Mariano Salvio Zalazar con Feliciana Angel. Que
> presuntamente pueden encontrarse ahi.
>

I just posted a comment before reading this. I was asking for help in finding a document of marriage dispensation. I am looking for informacion matrimonial probably requested in late 1880 and permission granded in January 1881. I reviewed a couple of periods that included those years and found records as late as 1954 mixed in with the 1800s.

Rosie Cordova

Rose, thank you for posting these. I am sure that somewhere down the line, if not already, you have helped someone find some very important info about their ancestors.

I also plan to post more of these as I am making copious notes while I sift through hundreds of images that have not been indexed.

I really appreciate your effort!

-c

if the child truly is a huerfano then it is a dead end but if it a
family member via a mistress, maid, rape, etc. then it would be
something that maybe only a Y-DNA test and some very difficult genealogy
research can solve. Unless you find some unusual record that spells out
the situation.

for example if you suspect that the child is a family member then if he
is a male child then you'd need to trace to one of his currently living
direct line descendants and compare that male's YDNA with one you know
for sure is not a huerfano but wears that same last name's YDNA.

very hard and difficult to achieve.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Alice,
I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana', instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride belong to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of hidding what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure and perhaps embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't tell attitude, that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience, these are dead end cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are ultimately recognized in last wills and testaments by their parents.

Jaime Alvarado

"huerfano" means that both parents are dead

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Group,
> I've come across something new to me. I can't find my 7grgrandfather's,
> Miguel Anaya Villagran aka Villagran Anaya, baptismal/birth information, but
> on his 1719 informacion matrimonial to Angela Alcantara Navarrete, it says
> he's an orphan. Does this mean that he was born to padres no conosidos?
> Then how did he get the compound surnames? I've seen where parents have
> been named as adoptive parents on marriages, but not here.
> Their daughter, Pheliciana Ma Petra Anaya Villagran's baptismal entry
> doesn't name any grandparents. How would one proceed with this line, or is
> it just a dead end? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks so much, Alice Blake

A couple of suggestions:

-The closest "large" village is Valparaiso. The church records may be there. These are online at Family Search.
-The 1930 Census is online (also Family Search), and the Lobatos listings are associated with Valparaiso.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Mercedes,

My family is some how related to General Jesus Archiga through the Chavez side. Are you located in the So. Cal.? I have distant cousin surname Chavez that live in So. Cal.

Frank Carrasco Martinez

Mercedes:

I am sure that a trip to Jalpa would be a great learning experience but as many members will tell you, going to the locality is not necessarily the best way to do genealogical research.

For one, the best genealogical records in Mexico are church records and many priests are very reticent about letting people look at them especially for broad research. Many civil records have been lost or are very disorganized in the towns as well and often the state capitals are the only places where you can find records.

That being said, the Family History Library has films for Jalpa that should probably be where you should begin your search. Just go to http://www.familysearch.org and look up the nearest family history center to you where you can go and order and view the films.

Jalpa, Zacatecas:

Información matrimonial 1864-1875 FHL INTL Film 1511832 Items 3-4
Información matrimonial 1874-1897 VAULT INTL Film 1511824
Información matrimonial 1898-1904 VAULT INTL Film 1511825

Nacimientos 1884-1890 FHL INTL Film 773875
Nacimientos 1891-1895 VAULT INTL Film 773876
Nacimientos 1896-1898 VAULT INTL Film 773877

Generalmente a los "niños expuestos" (que eran abandonados a las puertas de
un templo catolico), eran criados por la iglesia, y al bautisarlos se
asentaba que eran "hijos de la iglesia" o "expuesto", algunas de las veces
se les ponia el apellido "De La Cruz" o "De Dios".

nota: tambien a los indios conversos al catoliciscmo los bautisaban con el
apellido "de la cruz" o " de dios"

¡Saludos!

Israel Valles
Drango, MX

2011/5/30

> I discovered a bautismo for a child, identified as "Espanol", with the
> designation "hijo de la iglesia". What exactly does "hijo de la iglesia"
> signify?

Does not necessarily mean a priesthood holder had to be the father. It could
simply mean the child was raised by the church. Often times when they
would be abandoned or leave care of the church. Although every now and then
it was common for church leaders to have children out of wedlock like the case
with Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla.

Daniel Méndez Camino

It means that the child was the child of a Catholic priesthood holder, in those times you will see there are many kids who have that designation (Hijo de la iglesia.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul gomez"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 3:11:58 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] HIJO DE LA IGLESIA

I discovered a bautismo for a child, identified as "Espanol", with the designation "hijo de la iglesia". What exactly does "hijo de la iglesia" signify?

Arturo that brings up another but related topic. Right now I can't
access this site which all of us have found very very valuable:
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm

if it is only me and the site is really not down how can we do something
similar and make this site available on the nuestrosranchos.org site?
There is sooo much space available for us to upload and was hoping that
we could host this as well if it wouldn't be an outrageous amount of work.

joseph

ps: Duke University actually owns a hard copy of this dictionary but it
is ashame that it is in general circulation and the pages are crumbling.

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

arturoramos wrote:
> Searching the Internet for translations of some pretty archane words I have run across in older Spanish colonial documents, I came across a great resource... Compilation of Colonial Spanish Terms and Document Related Phrases Compiled and edited by Ophelia Marquez and Lillian Ramos Navarro Wold and published by SHAAR. It is posted on their website at:
>
> http://www.somosprimos.com/spanishterms/spanishterms.htm
>
> But just in case the page comes down... I have uploaded it to the Files - Reference Materials Section:
>
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16242

what does "complete" mean? I've looked for Jalpa in the Zacatecas page but isn't listed as a separate municipality, nor is it found in some of the neighboring areas. I didn't find other cities like Tlaltenango as well, which makes me wonder there is still information to be loaded. Or if all that's available has been loaded, then there are places with missing records. I also did a search for Jalpa and didn't find it at all.

It's a shame if this turns out to be the case.

Arturo Gonzalez

Una duda, esos Araiza y Medina tienen que ver los "de Medina" que
posteriormente fueron Medina de Tecolotlán???

El 21/05/2011 15:44, enrique_agraz94@hotmail.com escribió:
> Hola a todos:

> El tema que hoy abordaré, es acerca de los progenitores de Juan de Araiza
> y Medina y María del Castillo Ladrón de Guevara. No tengo el dato del
> lugar de su matrimonio, y la fecha debió haber sido por la década de
> 1660's, lo que sí sé. es que eran vecinos de Tecolotlán, debido a que ahí
> están bautizados algunos de sus hijos. También sé, que Don Juan de Araiza
> y Medina, era originario de la Villa de Aguascalientes, y esto muy cierto
> debido a que yo sé que los "Araiza y Medina" son originarios de ahí.

> Sí alguien tiene información que pueda ayudarme les agradecería mucho.

> Salvador Agraz

> Hello everyone:

> The matter I'll raise today is about the parents of Juan de Araiza y
> Medina and María del Castillo Ladrón de Guevara. I don't have the
> information about the place of the marriage, I think the date of the
> celebration should have taken place by the decade of 1660's, what I know
> is that they were living in Tecolotlán because some of their children
> were baptized there. Also I know that Don Juan de Ariza y Medina was from
> the Aguascalientes village and this is very true because I know
> the "Araiza y Medina", were from there.

> If anyone has information that could help me, I'll thank you a lot.

> Salvador Agraz

Sólo una nota tengo que los patriarchas del linaje “Araíza y Medina” eran Juan de Araíza y Medina; y su mujer María de Isla también conocida como María Lozano hija del regidor de Zacatecas. Juan era hijo de Hernando o Fernando de Araíza y Medina; y María de Guzmán. Pienso si no me confundo éstos últimos eran vecinos de Zacatecas. Tengo notado que Juan y María tuvieron por lo menos 11 hijos en total durante su matrimonio que seguro se afectuó en Zacatecas lástima que se quemaron esos archivos.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Hola Mario,

Me llamó la atención tu interrogante sobre las iniciales AMP, la verdad es que no las había visto en otros libros y no me sonaba a nada. Fui a ver los libros de 1930 y vi que todas (las que yo revisé) después del nombre del bautizado se agrega el adjetivo "Americano" (Puedes revisar el libro de 1930 y lo verás). En la partida de Eligio y las que están antes y después de la de él de 1832 se agregan las iniciales Am y un signo que no es una p (creo yo) sino una "o" final que se pone por encima, como en otras abreviaturas como lmo (legítimo),Pvo (párvulo), etc. Así que lo que creo que pueda significar es "Americano".

Consumada la independencia en 1921, he notado que se comenzaron a eliminar en las actas eclesiásticas los adjetivos, indio, español, coyote, lobo, etc. que indicaban la raza del individuo y el título de Don se cambió por el de ciudadano, pero nunca había visto que se asentara el término "americano" como aquí en todas las partidas sin querer significar, como es obvio por el contexto, norteamericano o de EEUU. Los nombres de los padres son todos castellanos.

Conclusión creo que el término correcto correspondiente a la avrebiatura es "americano" y el significado es un espíritu de igualdad entre los miembros de la parroquia. Quizá alguien pueda ilustrarnos más del por qué se asentaba este adjetivo a los niños en esa época concreta.

Buena suerte en tu investigación
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

Si ejemplificas que sigue despues de AMP podría ayudarte un poco mejor.

Saludos

Israel Valles
Durango, MX

El 23 de mayo de 2011 17:48, escribió:

> Hola a todos, investigando en los microfilms de familisearch de Jalisco,
> encuentro en las de de Bautismo muy constantemnente el termino AMP. ¿que
> significado tiene?, espesificamente lo encontre en fes de bautismo del año
> 1830 en lagos de moreno Jalisco,.
> De antemano gracias por la ayuda que siempre me prestan.
>
> ATTE
> Mario Gonzalez

Claudia

I found your records! But before I tell you where, here's what I did.

I looked up your people in the old Family Search, and it said they were on film 226724 (batch M606255). When I opened the film for 1627-86, I noted that it had the film number 226724, so it should be the right film. It started at the right time, but your people aren't at the beginning.

I then looked at the first film of baptisms (as these are sometimes together with the early marriages). The film had a different FHL number. So they shouldn't be there. I then looked at the next film of marriages; it also had a different FHL number, so they couldn't be there, and had to be on the marriages film for 1627-86.

The beginning of the film did not have page numbers, so it is not ibvious that pages are missing, but the data were sequential, so that is unlikely.

I scanned through the film, and discovered it is at least two volumes (volume 2 starts at image 181). The beginning date was earlier than the ending date of the prior volume.

I also noticed that the marriages at the beginning of the film seem to be indians and not Spanish.

This suggested to me that there is likely a separate set of records for the Spanish. The only option then was to scan through the film (I jumped 20-25 pages at a time). Or you can go through page by page; not fun, but it is methodical.

Image 141 has 1669 marriages (left side), and blank on the right side.

At image 142 I found don Rodrigo de Carabajal de Ulloa and dona Juana de Lomelin, 12 Sep 1628.

At image 143 (left side) is Bernardino and Mariana and (right side) Juan and Jacinta.

I have seen records out of sequence before. Its a nuisance, but you may sometimes have to scan through the whole film. Ocassionally if a film has both the main parish and adjunct chapels, the records for the chapels will be at the end of a month, after the main parish. Or, they may be elsewhere. Sometimes pages are simply out of sequence.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

This is amazing! Thank you for sharing.

Esto es increíble! Gracias por compartir.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Gloria Casillas

Muchas gracias por esta invaluable informacion, me va a servir muchisimo, ya que soy mama de dos niños y me es dificil desplazarme al Centro de la ciudad y buscar en los rollos de microfilm, ahora podre realizar mi busqueda con mas calma =)

I just wanted to let everyone know, that Family Search has uploaded quite a few of the parish records for Jalisco, to FamilySearch.org . I am not sure of how extensive they are, but there quite a few cities listed. And I have only checked out Ciudad Guzman and Sayula. but for those 2 cities, it almost has the entire collection.

Jonathan

Hello Raquel (prima),
I have also found that some of my folks were not administered last rights due to "por la violencia de su muerte" - or - "por ser su muerte violenta"...

I don't think it means the a person was murdered, per se, but rather it was a term used when the death was sudden and unexpected. The cases that I've found referred to cases of: 1) died giving birth, 2) died of sudden sickness, and 3) drowning or a similar act that brought sudden death and the priest didn't arrive in time to take confession and administer rights.

I hope this helps.