Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725

Comentarios

Comentario

Jose de Jesus Barba Ornelas.
Es correcto, pero sin el Ygnacio, es el Cap. Ysidro Martin o Martinez de Sotomayor y es hijo leg. de Andres Martin de Sotomayor o Martin Camacho y de Doña Maria de Isla y Moctesuma. Saludos.

Comentario

Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
------Original Message------
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
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To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM

Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.

Regards,
Daniel

Comentario

I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel

Comentario

I am positive as to her parents because of her death record
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:24:47
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel

Comentario

I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.

Here is the transcription of that record:

(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.

I guess we need to keep on looking

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

I am not sure where de rodriguez ramirez fits in but I sometimes found one or the other attached to the de la cerda last name as if was part of it. Sometimes rodr sometimesb ramirez. Still searching for why.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:24:47
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel

Comentario

No, I do not. Sorry.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 23, 2010 9:46 PM

Do you know the name of the parents of Joseph (Rodrigues Ramires) Lopez de la Serda?

Jaime

Comentario

I just went baCk and did find the info for you her father is juan manuel lopez de la cerda and her mother is maria de jesus diaz de sandi. It says she was born in Rayos
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 23, 2010 9:46 PM

Do you know the name of the parents of Joseph (Rodrigues Ramires) Lopez de la Serda?

Jaime

Comentario

She was also borm in 1735 in rayos aguas and buried 14apr1777 in aguas.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 11:40 AM

I meant to say Josepha, not Joseph.

Comentario

I will check my info tomorrow. I may have mixed up to two records but one of the records specifally named her hjusband also as ignacio Martin de sotomayor. And the record was not the same one that you transcribed.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM

I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.

Here is the transcription of that record:

(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.

I guess we need to keep on looking

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:16:27
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

I will check my info tomorrow. I may have mixed up to two records but one of the records specifally named her hjusband also as ignacio Martin de sotomayor. And the record was not the same one that you transcribed.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM

I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.

Here is the transcription of that record:

(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.

I guess we need to keep on looking

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

The record I have states that maria josefa de la cerda married to jose ignaciO martinez de sotomayor is the daughter juan manuel de la cerda and ma. De jesus diaz de sandi and it shows a burial date of 6apr1778. Film number 299861.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM

I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.

Here is the transcription of that record:

(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.

I guess we need to keep on looking

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

There is another sister of the same name and that was the other record.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:46:21
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

The record I have states that maria josefa de la cerda married to jose ignaciO martinez de sotomayor is the daughter juan manuel de la cerda and ma. De jesus diaz de sandi and it shows a burial date of 6apr1778. Film number 299861.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM

I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.

Here is the transcription of that record:

(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.

I guess we need to keep on looking

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.

Jaime

Comentario

You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM

This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.

Jaime

Comentario

Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime

Comentario

If you find the source stating josefa is the daughter of nicolas and maria please let me know. Thanks
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:56:43
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime

Comentario

Ramirez was a named attached to a lopez family so they may be related.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:56:43
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime

Comentario

Seguiremos buscando. Ahora me he puesto a revisar todos los entierros en Aguas desde 1690 hasta 1780 para ver si encuentro algo que nos de informacion. Sin embargo, es posible que estos datos se encuentren en Ojuelos (Cienega de Matas), donde muchos de los matrimonios de los hijos tuvieron lugar. Lo que complica la busqueda es que Ojueslos paso a ser asociado con Pinos, Zacatecas, y luego con Jalisco.

Jaime

Comentario

The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
------Original Message------
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM

Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.

Regards,
Daniel

Comentario

Has anyone by chance have the marriage record of Ignacio and Petronilade Magana married in Jalos 30 Nov 1725.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:01:53 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
> I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel

Comentario

Daniel this has nothing to do with the message on this e-mail.  I was looking at ancestry.com and saw that you had my grandparents and my great grandparents listed.  They are Francisco Reynoso and Maria del Refugio Pulido.  If I picked things up correctly you are related to them.  How?  I did write a little about them on ancestry.com.  Get back to me if you can.

Irene (kelly) 

________________________________
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
To: Patty Hoyos
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 10:24:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor

Has anyone by chance have the marriage record of Ignacio and Petronilade Magana married in Jalos 30 Nov 1725.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:01:53 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
> I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa. 
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel

Comentario

Well, distantly Im related because just having blood from Los Altos, but right now Im do several projectswhere Im getting and researching desceandants of "X" family and working from 1500s to the late 1800s.I just happened to run into your family using the IGI and familysearch.
Regards,Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/

Comentario

Thanks Robert, please do share!!! He is my ancestor.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: robertzermeno@msn.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:39:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Daniel,
>
> I've just ordered this marriage record from the Mormon Church. It should arrive in 2-3 weeks. I'll make a note to myself to share what I find with you.
>
> Robert Zermeno

Research Methods

Hello everyone!

I am new to this forum and would like to get some great tips on the best researching methods.
So far, I have been using "familysearch.org/mexico-genealogy" to get information.

Antonio Romo and Juana Olivo

I am a descendant of Antonio Romo and Juana Olivo who married abt 1870 in San Luis Potosi. I have heard an old family rumor that they ran away together to marry.

Comentarios

Comentario

The only thing I can mention is that you can have a direct male descendant of Claudio Olivo Romo perform a Y-DNA test with FamilyTreeDNA to see if he is a direct male descendant of Diego Romo de Vivar of Rielves, Toledo, Spain.

Armando

Nicolas de Anda Sanchez, Teocaltiche

I contacted George Farias of Borderland Bookstore, asking when he might obtain more copies of Nicolas de Anda Sanchez's books on Teocaltiche.

Comentarios

Comentario

Rose,
Yes, I am interested in a copies for myself. I also wouldn't mind helping George Farias out, since I've find his Borderlands Book Store a good resource and am glad to hear he is going to continue in operation. I would appreciate any info you are comfortable sharing. Thanks.
Raquel Ruiz

looking for book-- Historia de Totatiche

Gustavo,

Have you found the book yet? If not, let me know.

Comentarios

Comentario

Beverly,
Thank you very much for your offer, I really appreciate it. While I
still haven't found the book, I wanted to try and contact Borderlands
book store but I haven't had any time to do so. I will definately
keep this in mind and let you know.

Thank you
Gustavo

where can i find marriage records for citizens of the town of tepetongo prior to 1816

i noticed that fmarriage records for people in this town prior to 1816 can't not be found in the tepetongo section of the familysearch website which cen be found in the following link

Comentarios

Comentario

I looked in the catalog for the FHL library, and there are no films for marriages prior to 1816; the matrimonial investigations start somewhat later.

Baptisms exist from the mid-1700s.

The 1816 volume of marriages is inscribed "Libro 1" which suggests marriages were not recorded locally, or were not recorded separately from other records. Have you checked in the volumes for baptisms?

Otherwise, these marriages may be recorded in a nearby community.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

ok i'll probably look for some in other nearby municupalilties.

also after looking through some tepetongo records, i found a few of them in the Bautismos 1750-1770, 1775-1780, 1786-1808, 1812-1817. they can be found between pages 138-144

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15267-40041-82?cc=1410092&wc…

Libro Funadores de Nueva Galicia Tomo I by Garamedia

Gentlemen,

Comentarios

Comentario

My question was in regards to why Tomasina used the alternate surname. I know many families used alternate surnames, but I am interested to know if you have any specific information regarding Tomasina. I may be asking too much, but this specific area of research may help answer some questions that may unlock my research block, right now. My 9x great-grandfather's first wife was Ana Lamas O Saucedo. He later married Josefa Tello de Orozco, but had to get permission from Guadalajara because they were 3rd cousins.

Thanks

En respuesta a por October Fly (no verificado)

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

When she got married on 1634 with Juan Sanchez (Sanchez-Castellanos) she used Tomasina de Saucedo, when they baptized for example his son Manuel she used Tomasina de Saucedo, but with others sons and the census of 1650 in Tlaltenango she used Tomasina de Haro.

En respuesta a por October Fly (no verificado)

Comentario

AKA = also known as
Is this where you want clarification?
--Esther

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 9:19 PM, wrote:

> Porque es "AKA Tomasina de Saucedo"?

SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco

Joseph,

I know his father is from Jalisco, therefore it's not such a stretch to think that he's from the Romo de Vivar family.

I have no objection to extending an invitation, I welcome it, we'd

Comentarios

Comentario

Joseph

Sergio has a facebook page....I'd be interested also to see if he is related to us.
I would like to know where to find the shirt he wore at the parade....
Go Giants!

Rose

Comentario

Wonder if there may be a connection to Roderigo Diaz de Bivar/Vivar, known as "El Cid," dating back to the late 1000s...

Now that would be an interesting genealogy to trace !

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA USA
p.s. I'm also a Giant's fan across the Bay from S.F. :-).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:38:40 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco

I'm a SF Giants fan and was wondering if Los Altos is the Epicenter of the
Romo de Vivar name. Is it very likely that historically Sergio Romo's
ancestors might come from Los Altos? Does anyone know if his genealogy has
been done? Would anyone object if I offered him an honorary membership in
the Nuestros Ranchos group? Hey maybe I could score an autographed ball or
something.

OR is the Romo de Vivar name just as strong in other areas of Mexico? Am I
stretching to think that Sergio could easily be a cousin to many members of
the group?

Did anyone notice his "I Just Look Illegal" T-shirt? (I just ordered one):

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/sergio-romo-dons-thou…
rovoking-t-shirt-giants-003022090--mlb.html

joseph

Joseph Puentes

Comentario

Hi Pat,
If you are related to any of these prominant families from the Altos you are related directly to Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, El Cid:
Toribio Hernández de Arellano (married to Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza)orMaría Hurtado de Mendoza (married to Rodrigo Cristobal Olivares)orFrancisca Hurtado y de Olivares (Capitán Francisco Gutierrez de Mendoza Rubio, el Mozo)
Sofia

Comentario

Hi Sofia,

Thank you so much for your posting.

My connection to Rodrigo Diaz Bivar/Vivar "ElCid" is from researching my Portuguese ancestry.

To date "El Cid," is my 27th Great Grandfather...though various researchers/sources differ as to the actual genealogy of "El Cid." It continues to be a "work in progress."

I will check out the family names that you noted in your posting and see if I can link my husband's Hispanic lines to "El Cid."

Once again thank you,
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA USA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martínez Muñoz"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:35:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco

Hi Pat,
If you are related to any of these prominant families from the Altos you are related directly to Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, El Cid:
Toribio Hernández de Arellano (married to Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza)orMaría Hurtado de Mendoza (married to Rodrigo Cristobal Olivares)orFrancisca Hurtado y de Olivares (Capitán Francisco Gutierrez de Mendoza Rubio, el Mozo)
Sofia

Comentario

Sofia,

Toribio Hernandez de Arrellano is my 12ggfa by way of his dtr, Maria
Hurtado de Mendoza, and my 14ggfa, by way of his dtr, Anna Sanchez de
Mendoza. I have not gotten beyond Toribio and Isabela in my research. I
would very much appreciate any assistance you can give me.
Raquel Ruiz

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Pat Corbera wrote:

> Hi Sofia,
>
> Thank you so much for your posting.
>
> My connection to Rodrigo Diaz Bivar/Vivar "ElCid" is from researching my
> Portuguese ancestry.
>
> To date "El Cid," is my 27th Great Grandfather...though various
> researchers/sources differ as to the actual genealogy of "El Cid." It
> continues to be a "work in progress."
>
> I will check out the family names that you noted in your posting and see
> if I can link my husband's Hispanic lines to "El Cid."
>
> Once again thank you,
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy CA USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martínez Muñoz"
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:35:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco
>
>
> Hi Pat,
> If you are related to any of these prominant families from the Altos you
> are related directly to Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, El Cid:
> Toribio Hernández de Arellano (married to Isabel Hurtado de
> Mendoza)orMaría Hurtado de Mendoza (married to Rodrigo Cristobal
> Olivares)orFrancisca Hurtado y de Olivares (Capitán Francisco Gutierrez de
> Mendoza Rubio, el Mozo)
> Sofia
>
>
>
>
>

Comentario

Hi Raquel,
The research I have is from a couple of years ago and recently I have started again trying to sort out all my paper work.So I can not remember exactly how I got the info, but even a fellow researcher came to the same conclusion.That the parents of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano are Juan Hernandez de Hijar, Conde de Belchite and Isabel Ramirez de Arellano.

Sofia

> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:16:58 -0500
> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco -"El Cid"
>
> Sofia,
>
> Toribio Hernandez de Arrellano is my 12ggfa by way of his dtr, Maria
> Hurtado de Mendoza, and my 14ggfa, by way of his dtr, Anna Sanchez de
> Mendoza. I have not gotten beyond Toribio and Isabela in my research. I
> would very much appreciate any assistance you can give me.
> Raquel Ruiz
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Pat Corbera wrote:
>
> > Hi Sofia,
> >
> > Thank you so much for your posting.
> >
> > My connection to Rodrigo Diaz Bivar/Vivar "ElCid" is from researching my
> > Portuguese ancestry.
> >
> > To date "El Cid," is my 27th Great Grandfather...though various
> > researchers/sources differ as to the actual genealogy of "El Cid." It
> > continues to be a "work in progress."
> >
> > I will check out the family names that you noted in your posting and see
> > if I can link my husband's Hispanic lines to "El Cid."
> >
> > Once again thank you,
> > Pat Silva Corbera
> > Tracy CA USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Martínez Muñoz"
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:35:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco
> >
> >
> > Hi Pat,
> > If you are related to any of these prominant families from the Altos you
> > are related directly to Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, El Cid:
> > Toribio Hernández de Arellano (married to Isabel Hurtado de
> > Mendoza)orMaría Hurtado de Mendoza (married to Rodrigo Cristobal
> > Olivares)orFrancisca Hurtado y de Olivares (Capitán Francisco Gutierrez de
> > Mendoza Rubio, el Mozo)
> > Sofia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comentario

Thanks. I look into it.
Raquel

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Martínez Muñoz wrote:

>
> Hi Raquel,
> The research I have is from a couple of years ago and recently I have
> started again trying to sort out all my paper work.So I can not remember
> exactly how I got the info, but even a fellow researcher came to the same
> conclusion.That the parents of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano are Juan
> Hernandez de Hijar, Conde de Belchite and Isabel Ramirez de Arellano.
>
> Sofia
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:16:58 -0500
> > From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco -"El Cid"
> >
> > Sofia,
> >
> > Toribio Hernandez de Arrellano is my 12ggfa by way of his dtr, Maria
> > Hurtado de Mendoza, and my 14ggfa, by way of his dtr, Anna Sanchez de
> > Mendoza. I have not gotten beyond Toribio and Isabela in my research. I
> > would very much appreciate any assistance you can give me.
> > Raquel Ruiz
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Pat Corbera >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sofia,
> > >
> > > Thank you so much for your posting.
> > >
> > > My connection to Rodrigo Diaz Bivar/Vivar "ElCid" is from researching
> my
> > > Portuguese ancestry.
> > >
> > > To date "El Cid," is my 27th Great Grandfather...though various
> > > researchers/sources differ as to the actual genealogy of "El Cid." It
> > > continues to be a "work in progress."
> > >
> > > I will check out the family names that you noted in your posting and
> see
> > > if I can link my husband's Hispanic lines to "El Cid."
> > >
> > > Once again thank you,
> > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > > Tracy CA USA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Martínez Muñoz"
> > > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:35:09 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Pat,
> > > If you are related to any of these prominant families from the Altos
> you
> > > are related directly to Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, El Cid:
> > > Toribio Hernández de Arellano (married to Isabel Hurtado de
> > > Mendoza)orMaría Hurtado de Mendoza (married to Rodrigo Cristobal
> > > Olivares)orFrancisca Hurtado y de Olivares (Capitán Francisco
> Gutierrez de
> > > Mendoza Rubio, el Mozo)
> > > Sofia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comentario

There is a link between them but my research shows a question mark as to whether toribio was a son or grandson. If he was a son he was a much younger sibling than his other siblings and would not inherit titles and his share of any inheritance would have been small if any. For Younger siblings it is wharder to find first hand documentation but we need to keep on looking for primary sources to confirm his place in the family.
RA Ricci

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2012, at 11:56 AM, Raquel Ruiz wrote:

> Thanks. I look into it.
> Raquel
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Martínez Muñoz wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Raquel,
>> The research I have is from a couple of years ago and recently I have
>> started again trying to sort out all my paper work.So I can not remember
>> exactly how I got the info, but even a fellow researcher came to the same
>> conclusion.That the parents of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano are Juan
>> Hernandez de Hijar, Conde de Belchite and Isabel Ramirez de Arellano.
>>
>> Sofia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:16:58 -0500
>>> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
>>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco -"El Cid"
>>>
>>> Sofia,
>>>
>>> Toribio Hernandez de Arrellano is my 12ggfa by way of his dtr, Maria
>>> Hurtado de Mendoza, and my 14ggfa, by way of his dtr, Anna Sanchez de
>>> Mendoza. I have not gotten beyond Toribio and Isabela in my research. I
>>> would very much appreciate any assistance you can give me.
>>> Raquel Ruiz
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Pat Corbera >> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Sofia,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for your posting.
>>>>
>>>> My connection to Rodrigo Diaz Bivar/Vivar "ElCid" is from researching
>> my
>>>> Portuguese ancestry.
>>>>
>>>> To date "El Cid," is my 27th Great Grandfather...though various
>>>> researchers/sources differ as to the actual genealogy of "El Cid." It
>>>> continues to be a "work in progress."
>>>>
>>>> I will check out the family names that you noted in your posting and
>> see
>>>> if I can link my husband's Hispanic lines to "El Cid."
>>>>
>>>> Once again thank you,
>>>> Pat Silva Corbera
>>>> Tracy CA USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Martínez Muñoz"
>>>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:35:09 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Pat,
>>>> If you are related to any of these prominant families from the Altos
>> you
>>>> are related directly to Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, El Cid:
>>>> Toribio Hernández de Arellano (married to Isabel Hurtado de
>>>> Mendoza)orMaría Hurtado de Mendoza (married to Rodrigo Cristobal
>>>> Olivares)orFrancisca Hurtado y de Olivares (Capitán Francisco
>> Gutierrez de
>>>> Mendoza Rubio, el Mozo)
>>>> Sofia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>

Comentario

Sofía and Raquel,

To my knowledge I was the first researcher to
present this hypothesis almost 3 years ago. This idea came to me as I
was studying the "royal genealogies" of the Ramírez de Arellano and
Hurtado de Mendoza family, almost if not all of us in the group are
linked to them in someway or another. The fact that Juan Hernández de
Híjar, conde de Belchite and Isabel Ramírez de Arellano married would
prove a likely connection. It would not be surprising if Toribio
compounded his parents surnames. In older records the H and F are
interchangeable, thus Hernández could easily become Fernández and
vice-versa. To produce Hernández de Arellano. One thing is certain,
Toribio and Isabel belonged to ancient houses of Spain, Arellano and
Mendonza. Based on my research there are only a handful of people that
had the name Hernández de Arellano during the XVI century, probably
descendants of the previous named couple. More researched would have to
be done with documentation. The name appears sometime after 1540 in
Spain, that´s the earliest I have found in the Archivo General de
Simancas, one of the oldest archives. I had presented this hypothesis to several researchers and it sparked their interest, since then we have not continued. I plan to continue this project once I return to the U.S.

Hope this helps,
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Comentario

Hi Daniel,

You and I discussed this a few years ago. And I also came up with the same conclusion as you did.
As you said there is only a handful of people that had the apellido Hernández de Arellano during the XVI century.Everything seems to point in that direction. Hopefully we will find the paper evidence we need.

Sofia

Comentario

Joseph and Alicia,

I tried contacting him a few weeks ago via twitter asking him if his parents
were from Jalisco, but I haven't received an answer yet. The regions where
the most Romo de Vivar live are Aguascalientes and Los Altos, maybe his
parents are from around here. I'll also be glad to help out putting together
his ancestor tree, that's if he's interested.

Rick

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Alicia
Carrillo
Enviado el: Saturday, November 03, 2012 6:47 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco

Joseph,

I know his father is from Jalisco, therefore it's not such a stretch to
think that he's from the Romo de Vivar family.

I have no objection to extending an invitation, I welcome it, we'd all love
to help him with his genealogy.

I think he has a lot of personality. Growing up in Brawley Calif where his
dad played ball in Mexicali, I'm sure he experienced a lot of prejudice,
thus his choice of I just look illegal.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:38 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco

I'm a SF Giants fan and was wondering if Los Altos is the Epicenter of the
Romo de Vivar name. Is it very likely that historically Sergio Romo's
ancestors might come from Los Altos? Does anyone know if his genealogy has
been done? Would anyone object if I offered him an honorary membership in
the Nuestros Ranchos group? Hey maybe I could score an autographed ball or
something.

OR is the Romo de Vivar name just as strong in other areas of Mexico? Am I
stretching to think that Sergio could easily be a cousin to many members of
the group?

Did anyone notice his "I Just Look Illegal" T-shirt? (I just ordered one):

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/sergio-romo-dons-thou…
rovoking-t-shirt-giants-003022090--mlb.html

joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com

Comentario

Luis Bojorquez sent me a private email with this link that seems to point in
the direction of Aguascalientes:

http://www.beisbolicos.com/862572BB000A73CA/Gral/9160E98CEF3DEE9086257A…
7920B

joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:general-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Rodriguez de Frias
> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 9:16 PM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; 'Alicia Carrillo'
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> Joseph and Alicia,
>
> I tried contacting him a few weeks ago via twitter asking him if his
parents were from
> Jalisco, but I haven't received an answer yet. The regions where the most
Romo de Vivar
> live are Aguascalientes and Los Altos, maybe his parents are from around
here. I'll also be
> glad to help out putting together his ancestor tree, that's if he's
interested.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Alicia
Carrillo
> Enviado el: Saturday, November 03, 2012 6:47 PM
> Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> Joseph,
>
> I know his father is from Jalisco, therefore it's not such a stretch to
think that he's from the
> Romo de Vivar family.
>
> I have no objection to extending an invitation, I welcome it, we'd all
love to help him with
> his genealogy.
>
> I think he has a lot of personality. Growing up in Brawley Calif where his
dad played ball
> in Mexicali, I'm sure he experienced a lot of prejudice, thus his choice
of I just look
> illegal.
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Joseph Puentes
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:38 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] SF Giants: Los Altos de Jalisco
>
> I'm a SF Giants fan and was wondering if Los Altos is the Epicenter of the
Romo de Vivar
> name. Is it very likely that historically Sergio Romo's ancestors might
come from Los
> Altos? Does anyone know if his genealogy has been done? Would anyone
object if I
> offered him an honorary membership in the Nuestros Ranchos group? Hey
maybe I could
> score an autographed ball or something.
>
>
>
> OR is the Romo de Vivar name just as strong in other areas of Mexico? Am I
stretching to
> think that Sergio could easily be a cousin to many members of the group?
>
>
>
> Did anyone notice his "I Just Look Illegal" T-shirt? (I just ordered one):
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/sergio-romo-dons-thou…
> rovoking-t-shirt-giants-003022090--mlb.html
>
>
>
> joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes
>
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
>
> http://h2opodcast.com
>
>
>
>
>

Las Haciendas del condado de San Mateo Valparaiso

Hello,
 
The Haciendas of the condado de San Mateo Valparaíso were sold to the families
that had previously managed  the Haciendas for the Condes de San MateoValparaíso
(Las Haciendas Perten

Comentarios

Comentario

I suggest buying the book by Jean A. Meyer, The Cristero Rebellion, see http://www.amazon.com/Cristero-Rebellion-1926-1929-Cambridge-American/d… or http://tinyurl.com/2wue4mu. In the chapter regarding "The Cristeros Army," a man born in Valparaiso, General Justo Avila, is discussed as one of its leaders. In addition, Colonel Emilio Barrios is also mentioned on the following page 124, specifically naming him as one of the leaders.

Ed

Comentario

Christopher,

With respect to your question about the hacendado families of the Revolution and Cristeros era, I add the material below which is no longer available on the Internet where I first found it. It references a Felguerez family member, Manuel Felguerez. The Felguerez Art Museum is located in Zacatecas, Zactecas, see http://www.travelbymexico.com/zacatecas/atractivos/index2.php?nom=kzacf…

"Manuel Felguérez was born in the Hacienda de San Agustín del Vergel in Valparaíso, Zacatecas. Times were difficult in 1928; the armed revolution had ended a few years earlier but land ownership was uncertain and agrarian claims spread throughout the country.
“My father had men to defend the hacienda, since the peasants tried to obtain land by violent means. One of my first memories is of a gunfight between the forces loyal to the hacienda and the agrarian supporters.”
His family emigrated to the capital for safety and his father tried to sell the Agrarian Debt bonds but died the following year. “I was seven years old, my mother didn’t want to go back and so she gave up the hacienda. I went back to Valparaíso sixty years later because they made me a favorite son and the Municipal Arts Center was named after me. I didn’t go back because my mother always used to say, “Don’t go to Valparaíso because they’ll kill you.”
He completed primary, secondary and high school with the Marian brothers. In 1947, he attended an international boy scouts’ meeting in France. “During that stay, we visited several countries and at the end of the trip, I decided to devote myself to art as a way of life.”
On his return to Mexico, he was admitted to the Academia de San Carlos, but he disliked the teaching methods and returned to Paris to study at the Grande Chaumière where the Cubist sculptor Zadquine accepted him as a pupil. It was there that he met the painter Lilia Carrillo, whom he subsequently married.
Taxidermist, anthropologist out of necessity, artisan, traveler, researcher and teacher, Felguérez is still primarily a child who discovers the world every day and, eager for sensations, plays with matter, adding and removing parts, assembling them and then taking them apart, searching for the secret of the beauty of forms. His stay in Europe led him to abstractionism and subsequently to geometrism in its basic forms: the circle, the triangle, the rectangle and the quadrangle and through a combination of these he developed his own idiom.
During the 1960s, Felguérez produced approximately thirty murals based on reliefs with scrap iron, stone, sand and shells. Two of the most outstanding murals include the one in the Cine Diana and in the Bahía bathing place. “It was my way of promoting myself and getting myself known. I charged the minimum, just what I needed to live on. I eventually shut down the workshop and went back to my easel, but by that time I was known both nationally and internationally and things were quite different.”
I never tried to make a living from art; I supported myself by giving classes. I taught at the University and now I’m retired. I never liked to depend on the sale of my work. Selling your work is traumatic; I used to paint and paint and my paintings would pile up.”
This led Felguérez to talk about the Museum of Abstract Art named after him and inaugurated in 1998 in the city of Zacatecas. “At that time, I had too many paintings, if anything, and in the case of my sculptures, I had nowhere to put them. In 1997, Felguérez and his wife Mercedes decided to donate a significant proportion of his work in order to create a museum. With the participation of the government of the state of Zacatecas, which provided a building that was originally a seminary and subsequently a prison and state penitentiary, work began on remodeling the building to adapt it to its new role as an art museum.
The collection consists of 100 works by the artist covering various stages in his lengthy career, as well as works by over 110 Mexican and foreign abstract artists. This museum is one of a kind because of its subject matter and the careful selection of the works on display.
The jewel in the museum’s crown is the hall with murals from Osaka. “When we did the restoration work, we discovered a large space, a hall of approximately 900 square meters, which we thought would be perfect for the eleven monumental murals produced at the request of Fernando Gamboa for the Mexican Pavilion in the Osaka ‘70 World Exhibition.”
Thirty-one years after they were painted, these murals were brought together and displayed together for the first time in a museum hall that has come to be known as the “Sistine Chapel of Mexican Abstract Art.”"

Ed

Francisco De Espitia?

Hey every one,
I was wondering if somehow Francisco De Espitia husband of Francisca De Quiroga could some how be related to Hernando De Torres Espitia?

Comentarios

Comentario

I descend from Hernando de Torres Espitia. No one has been able to find a document that links Hernando de Torres Espitia with Francisco de Espitia husband of Francisca de Quiroga. Bill Figueroa stated that Hernando de Torres Espitia was originally from Mexico City and he was unable to find a link between them. See the thread at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20373

Armando

Comentario

Armando,
I see can you give me any strategy or idea on how to try to connect Francisco de Espitia with Hernando?Is this Francisca De Quiroga the same one that married Pedro De Macias Valadez?
I'm having such a hard time finding my ancestor Sebastian Munoz husband of sostenes aguirre they were from la Jabonera Nochistlan his name is on the census aswell as his family it said he was born around 1875 so i went over the civil records baptism from 1875 to 1876 page by page and sadly nothing i have no clue what to do now i also did the same with his wife and nothing.
My grandmother recently came from her trip to Nochistlan and brought this book called Nochistlan, Zacatecas Su Paroquia Los Duran Otras Familias Antiguas.Iv'e got to say this book is really amazing.I hope someone can just help me find some info on Sebastian or Sostenes so i can start another great genealogy adventure.
Abram

Contreras y su relación con los Macías Valadez en Nochistlán-Aguascalientes-Teocaltiche

Hola a todos,

Comentarios

Comentario

Hello,
I must say that I have no documental proof to confirm Juana Maria Macias's parents but I came to that conclusion based on some facts:

There are no Macias Valadez in Nochistlan around 1670, which makes me thing Juana was native of other town. My best guess is Teocaltiche, where there were plenty of them.

Her son Bernardo de Contreras married in Teocaltiche.

Tomasa de Chavez was the godmother to Lucas and Juana's daughter Rosa Maria on Sep 14 1706.

Tomasa's son Diego Macias married Josefa de Contreras, a sister of Lucas. The couple lived and died in Nochistlan, as well as Lucas and Juana (siblings married to siblings?)

Lucas and Juana's son Diego de Contreras named after his grandfather Diego Macias?

Lucas and Juana's daughter Rosa de Contreras named after Juana's sister Rosa Macias?

I know these is not proven but I am pretty sure we are on te right track.

Comentario

Hi Raquel, Juana using Gonzalez is the one thing doesnt fit in this theory. However, in my research I have found a thousand of reasons a person could use another surname. Probably it came from the Macias Valades line, as I do not know who Diego Macias' parents were.
Have you looked into Jose Luis Vazquez book? I havent been able to find the book and I am sure it will be of huge help to my research.

PS I apologize for my English, I havent had the chance to practice it often.

Alejandro

Comentario

I am unfamiliar with the author you mentioned. What is the name of the book? I am still confused about the parentage of Lucas Contreras. I can't locate anything that connects him to Nicolas Perez de Contreras and Maria de Lomelin y Benavides. From what I can locate, their children were Geronimo, Juana, Nicolasa, Nicolas, Pedro y Micaela. No Lucas nor Josefa. How do you know Josefa and Lucas are siblings

Your English is great. Much better than my Spanish.

Raquel

Comentario

I am unfamiliar with the author you mentioned. What is the name of the book? I am still confused about the parentage of Lucas Contreras. I can't locate anything that connects him to Nicolas Perez de Contreras and Maria de Lomelin y Benavides. From what I can locate, their children were Geronimo, Juana, Nicolasa, Nicolas, Pedro y Micaela. No Lucas nor Josefa. How do you know Josefa and Lucas are siblings?

Your English is great. Much better than my Spanish.

Raquel

Comentario

Raquel,

The book is Genealogia de Nochistlan by Jose Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías. I know that Lucas de Contreras is listed in the book several times, but I haven't seen it yet.

Now I am not very sure our Lucas was related to Nicolas de Contreras. But if they were related, he was likely his grandson and not his son, as Lucas was born around 1674. I didn't have Geronimo, Nicolas and Pedro as Nicolas Perez de Contreras' sons. Do you have their baptismal dates? One of them could be Lucas' father.

Lucas de Contreras died on March 15 1708, leaving a last will and the order to pay for "doscientas misas pagadas". I bet that document would solve the mistery of his parentage, if it still exists.

By the way, I am his descendant by his son Santiago de Contreras, married to Francisca Becerra.

Alejadnro

Comentario

I'm sorry I didn't recognize the author--I own the book, however, right now I've lent it to a primo. Unfortunately, it does not help us. Two of the references for Lucas Contreras concern when he was the padrino, and the third concerns a debt someone owed him.

I could not locate Lucas's death record. Did he die in Nochistlan?

I have added your Santiago--I did not have him. I am assuming he and Diego, baptized 28 Feb 1697, are different sons. Do you have a baptismal date for him?

Pedro Contreras is listed on pg 409, Tomo V, Vol 2 of Retonos. Only his birth year is mentioned-1655. He married Juana Estrada de la Mora. Geronimo's birth year is listed as 1644 and Nicloas as 1650. I found them online, with no further info.
Raquel

Comentario

Prima

Here you have Lucas's death record (with its original grammar):

LUCAS CONTRERAS. ESPAÑOL CASADO.

En el puo. de Nochistlan en quince de marso de setesientos y ocho as. di sepultura eclesiastica a LUCAS CONTRERAS, español y vesino que fue de este partido y marido que fue de Doña Juana Masias, y murio de tavardillo y resivio todos los sacramentos, penitencia, eucaristia y estrema unsion, y en su testamento...con misa de cuerpo presente y dejo poder para testar...se le digan dosientas misas resadas y para que conste lo firme.

I don't have a baptismal record for Santiago Contreras. I got his parents' name on his marriage record to Francisca Becerra on Feb 29 1740 in Nochistlan. They had at least two daughters, Ana Maria and Maria Gertrudis.

Once you get your book back, may I give you a couple of names to look into it? Living in Monterrey it's impossible to get it from a US public library and no one out here seems to have it.

Best Regards
Alejandro

Comentario

Primo,
Thank you for death record.

I am in the same position with Bernardo, a mg record but no baptismal.

I'd be happy to look up some names for you. I will be getting it back in late December. You can send me the names anytime.

Raquel Ruiz

Comentario

Me puede decir como usted sabe que los padres de Juana Macias Valadez eran Diego Macias Valadez y Tomasa Fragoso de Chavez? Yo descendo por el hijo, Bernardo Contreras y su esposa, Feliciana Alonzo de Ynojos.
Can you tell me how you know that Juana Macias Valadez's parents were Diego Macias Valadez and Tomasa Fragoso de Chavez? I descend from Bernardo Contreras and his wife, Felicana Alonzo de Ynojos.
Raquel Ruiz

Comentario

Victor M Gomez

Hola

Lucas de Contreras es hijo del criollo nacido en la ciudad de Mexico hacia 1618 Nicolas Perez de Contreras y de Maria de Lomelin de Benavides, entre otros hijos son Geronimo, Nicolas, Nicolasa, Pedro y Micaela.

Comentario

Victor,
I have never been able to find the ancestry of Lucas Contreras and Juana Macias Valades, my 7th ggpts. Could you tell me how you linked Lucas to Nicolas Perez de Contreras and Maria de Lomelin de Benavides?

Nunca he podido encontrar los antepasados de Lucas Contrera y Juana Macias. Me puede decir como conecto Lucas con Nicolas Perez de Contreras y Maria de Lomelin de Benavides?

Raquel Ruiz

Lagos de Moreno Records "Fabricas" 1733-1797

Researching Lagos de Moreno Records I came across Fabricas. Lists of deaths, including cost and names. Is this the working of the 'hacienda'? Was the death then listed in the church records?

Comentarios

Autosomal DNA tests

I did an autosomal DNA test with FamilyTreeDNA. The Population Finder results were very misleading since they use only the groups with the highest portion of certain DNA markers.

Comentarios

Comentario

I think it's a waste of time and money to do any genealogy DNA tests.

They're predictable and very vague.

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

I used Family tree and after 2 years I got a match with Benajamin who lives in Portland, Oregon We matched 66 of 67 markers and with family finder we know that we are related. I have researched the family tree of Sanchez Castellanos' family and I am helping him to connect our trees. I hope both of us will trace our roots and probe that DNA is useful for Genealogy.

Juan Francisco.

Comentario

To Juan Francisco, just to clarify to everyone else. The 66 of 67 markers are from a Y-DNA 67 marker test. That is an extremely close match. I understand your comment was in response to Joseph de León. However, the test I had started this thread about is an autosomal test. At FamilyTreeDNA it is called Family Finder.

To add to previous comments I have made I know through Y-DNA results that there are people with the last name Jaime or Xaime that are actually descendants of Romo de Vivar. I also know that the Villalobos families from Zacatecas are related to the Villalobos of Jalisco and Aguascalientes. Those results are also definitive and not vague or predictable.

Armando

Comentario

To Joseph de Leon, You have already stated your negative attitude about these tests. Your lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject is causing your unwarranted comments.

I have proven that most people with my surname are related. This could not have been done without Y-DNA tests by descendants of the same surname. The autosomal test shows I was lower in African ancestry than I had expected. I would not have known this without the autosomal test. How is this predictable and vague? It's not, it is quite the opposite.

Armando

Duda acerca de la ascendencia de Andrés de Martín y María de las Ruelas

Hola:

Comentarios

can anyone read this

i found the marriage dispensation for francisco valenzuela and margarita ortega. the writing is very hard to read.

Comentarios

Comentario

For what I understand, they lived like husband and wife for 4 years and had a daughter which they secretly left in her aunt's house, where the child had been raised and is 3 years old or so (tubo amistad carnal como tiempo de quatro años poco mas; en cuio tiempo tubo una hija del susodicho llamada Josepha; a la qual la expusieron secretamante en casa de Bernarda de Gallegos tia de la declarante donde se a criado. Tendra como tres años o poco mas).

About 1 year and 4 or 5 months earlier the authorities separated them since they were not married and sent her to Colotlan (Y que abra tiempo de año y quatro o sinco meses que por el dicho Sr. Vicario se les fulmino causa dobre dicha ylisita amistad y puso en deposito a la declarante que estasygurada en el pueblo de Colotlan).

They are related by second with third degree of consanguinity "por copula ilicita", which is sex among unmarried people.
-The groom (Francisco de Balensuela) is first-cousin of the mother (Maria de Saldaña) of the bride (Margarita de Ortega).

According to the pages in the folloging image:
-Francisco Gallegos was the grandfather the groom and great-grandfather of the bride. He had "copula ilicita" with Juana de Saldaña and from both of them descend the bride and groom (probeniendo de copula ylicita que cometio Francysco Gallegos abuelo del pretenso y bisabuelo de la prestensa con Juana de Saldaña con quien tubo amistad ylicita de cuias dos personas probinieron los contrayentes)
-They had two daughters: Ysabel Gallegos (mother of the groom) and Josepha de Saldaña (grandmother of the bride).

Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

thanks a lot for explaining/translating what this document was about. the wording in the document was confusing. i wasn't sure how the name josefa saldana fit in the tree.