Nuestros Ranchos Site

ANNOUNCEMENT

Indigenous Mexico: A Remarkable Diversity
Location: Los Angeles Regional Family History Center
Address: 10741 Santa Monica Blvd., Los Angeles, California 90025
Date: Saturday, May 17, 2008
Time: 10 AM

If you want to know more about the indigenous peoples of Mexico and their remarkable diversity, you are welcome to attend “Indigenous Mexico: A Remarkable Diversity.”

John P. Schmal, utilizing a 40-page Power Point Presentation, will illustrate and discuss many aspects of Mexico’s indigenous past and present. The presentation includes maps, census statistics, linguistic relationships, discussion of the Uto-Aztecan family and the meanings of tribal names.

Questions are encouraged.

The 10 AM presentation will be followed by an 11:30 AM presentation on Mexican Genealogical Research in the same location. John Schmal will discuss research methods for locating Mexican ancestors and tracing their indigenous and Spanish roots. John Schmal specializes in research in Jalisco, Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, Chihuahua, Guanajuato and Sonora (Yaqui roots).

John Schmal is the coauthor of:
“Mexican-American Genealogical Research: Following the Paper Trail to Mexico” (2002)
“The Indigenous Roots of a Mexican-American Family” (2003)

And the author of:

“The Journey to Latino Political Representation.” (2007)

These books are availble through amazon.com and heritagebooks.com.

John Schmal can be contacted at Johnnypj@aol.com

The Library can be contacted at 310-474-9990
The Library website is www.larfhc.org.

Hi

I thought that the copies were the ones in Mexico City at the Archivo de la
Nacion? At least that is what I heard a long time ago. I never heard that
each church was to get one. Also, do you mean $3.00...30.00?

Mickey

In a message dated 5/8/2008 10:39:14 P.M. Central Standard Time,
rickrod.com@gmail.com writes:

Well I was really surprised, as most people here in Los Altos, when I first
found out that the Mormon Church was granted authorization to microfilm all
these records that we've been so gratefully using for our research.

When I first went to the Parrish in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco (one of the
oldest in the Los Altos region) they told me that one of the conditions for
the Mormons to microfilm their records was that they would give each church
a copy of every film that was created. According to the people here, this
never happened. Instead, they were told recently that they could purchase
each film for $3000 dollars. I'm not saying this is what actually happened
or that it didn't, just that this is what I was told in Jalos.

Rick

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Alicia
Carrillo
Enviado el: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:04 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Vatican blocks Mormon access to records |
A Soft Answer

How much you wanna bet that the Mormon Church would never let anyone else
view their Church records for Baptisms, marriages or otherwise?

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: Jose Carlos de Leon
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 1:40:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Vatican blocks Mormon access to records
| A Soft Answer

With "tongue in cheek", maybe the Pope could retaliate by re-baptising the
dead Mormons to Catholicism?

Jose Carlos de Leon

Hi Emily,

I'm addressing this to you because you were the most rational in
explaining the controversy.

What I don't understand is why the Pope is all upset about a religion
he does not recognize as legitimate taking a list of dead peoples
names and saying something (he does not recognize as being
legitimate) over them. It will not change what those people believed
when they were alive. Nothing can change what the deceased believe
after they die. They're dead, they can't change their mind. If they
were Catholic when alive, that's what they are now. If they were
Jewish when alive, nothing can change that. They remain what they
believed when alive.

It looks like anyone can go to a cemetery and copy a list of names
from the tombstones and claim to re-baptize them and the Pope will
recognize it's legitimacy by getting upset. Doesn't he have faith
the Catholic religion is strong enough to resist posthumous baptisms
from the Mormons?

I certainly hope the Pope doesn't follow through with this. It will
hurt more than genealogists.

Linda

http://www.asoftanswer.com/2008/05/02/vatican-blocks-mormon-access-to-r…

This is a link to a Mormon site about the controversy re re-baptisms of Catholics.

Maybe we can start writing letters to the Catholic Bishops with copies to the Vatican to let them know of our feelings. We could also write to the Mormon Bishops in the local stakes. The two entities need to have a dialog about this. Maybe the LDS can work something out in order to allow further work.

The Jews who in 1995 discovered that their Holocaust victims had been re-baptized into the LDS were furious and thought the LDS church arrogant. They want to be Jews forever. I know devout Catholics want to remain so also.

I know I wondered why so many of my ancestors had been "baptized" into the LDS since the actual documents show they were all baptized Catholic. I found that many published family trees and trees and group sheets submitted to the LDS church or gathered by them from books, etc. had been put into databases and volunteers would go into the temple and get into what looks like a giant hot tub, nd they have the lists of people to be baptized on a screen and they baptize them by proxy.

Why this posthumous baptism? "A distinctive doctrine of the [LDS] church is that the dead as well as the living may receive the gospel of Jesus Christ. Every man, woman, and child who has ever lived or who ever will live on the earth will have full opportunity, if not in this life then in the next, to embrace or reject the gospel in its purity and fullness". The belief is that baptism needs be done by the living since it cannot be accomplished except by those "still in the flesh". They say that Jesus sent his disciples to preach his gospel which includes the "ordinance of baptism". They also say that the Apostle Paul mentioned baptism for the dead. However, I am in agreement that only direct descendants converting to the LDS church have the right to speak for their ancestors and re-baptise them themselves, and non-descendants should not take that upon themselves.

When I told someone at my local LDS church that my Catholic ancestors would roll over in their graves to find they had been re-baptized into a creed they did not believe in and rejected outright when alive, I was told that the dead had a right to refuse the baptism--- in other words, the dead have "free agency". But why put that burden on them?

Most Christian churches believe that to die without being baptized is to remain in purgatory forever and never get to Heaven. So, Catholics baptize their babies who do not have the ability of free agency. When my Mother realized I had rejected the Catholic Church (I am a confirmed agnostic) she wanted to know why I was the only one in the family who did that--that I had been "born" a Catholic, and I told her no, I had been baptized as an infant without my permission, and that I had the right then to reject that creed.

So, I don't really care who re-baptises me into whatever faith--since all Christians and Muslims feel that the doctrines of their creeds are the only true faith, as long as I can continue to have access to the records of my ancestors. Too bad that the LDS re-baptized some without the permission of their ancestors, and too bad that the Catholic Church objects so much to something that is meaningless to their creed.

We'll just have to see how this plays out. In the meantime I am grateful for the genealogical work of the LDS, but so sorry to see that they were so aggressive in applying their doctrine.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Just in case you hadn't seen this announcement:

Friday, 9 May 2008
President Bush signed legislation yesterday establishing a commission to study the feasibility of a National Museum of the American Latino.

More info here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/08/AR20080…

Maybe in about 20 years ...

natalie

I have been searching for ancestors that were very certainly born before
1900 in Mexico. I have not been able to find a single one on either side of
my family. Is it because they were born in small towns and LDS has not
gotten to them yet (which means my hopes of finding records from a distance
is killed because of recent events), or ???

--
America Calleros

I just learned of this and think that all of us who deeply care about genealogical research need to make our protests heard to the Catholic Church and the genealogical community as this can result in grave consequences for the preservation of valuable genealogical records:

Full article is available at: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm

Vatican letter directs bishops to keep parish records from Mormons

By Chaz Muth
Catholic News Service

WASHINGTON (CNS) -- In an effort to block posthumous rebaptisms by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Catholic dioceses throughout the world have been directed by the Vatican not to give information in parish registers to the Mormons' Genealogical Society of Utah.

An April 5 letter from the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, obtained by Catholic News Service in late April, asks episcopal conferences to direct all bishops to keep the Latter-day Saints from microfilming and digitizing information contained in those registers.

The order came in light of "grave reservations" expressed in a Jan. 29 letter from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the clergy congregation's letter said.

Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishops' Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, said the step was taken to prevent the Latter-day Saints from using records -- such as baptismal documentation -- to posthumously baptize by proxy the ancestors of church members.

(Espanol sigue abajo)

I know this is an often repeated announcement around here, but since we have so many new members and the activity on the list has heated up, I figured I should repeat it.

Please, please trim your messages. When you reply to a posting via email, if you have your email set to include the message to which you are replying as part of the message, delete all but that part of the message which is necessary to provide context. Often nothing is necessary other than an appropriate subject for the reply message. When replies get posted online, they get posted along with the messages to which they are responding, so there is no need to repeat text. Such repetition makes the message very, very illegible.

Thanks for your cooperation.

I also suggest that any new members that have not yet done so download the Nuestros Ranchos User Guide which explains this and other site functions and etiquette. It can be found under FILES-REFERENCE MATERIALS.

(ESPANOL)

Se que este anuncio es uno que repetimos mucho por estos rumbos, pero como hay tantos nuevos miembros y el nivel de actividad en la lista ha aumentado bastante, creo que es bueno repetirlo de nuevo.

Por favor, les rogamos recortar sus mensajes. Cuando respondan a un mensaje por correo-e, si su programa de correo-e incluye el mensaje al que esta respondiendo como parte de la respuesta, borre todo ese mensaje salvo la parte necesaria para dar contexto a la respuesta. Muchas veces no se necesita nada mas que poner un titulo apropriado a la respuesta. Cuando las respuestas se publican en el sitio, se publican juntos a los mensajes a cuales responden, asi que no es necesario repetir el texto. Repeticion como esa hace que el mensaje sea muy dificil de leer.

Gracias por su cooperacion.

Tambien le sugiero a cualquier nuevo miembro que no lo haya hecho ya, que descargue el Guia de Usuario de Nuestros Rancos que explica esto y otros funcionamientos del sitio hasi como protocolos. Se puede encontrar bajo ARCHIVOS-MATERIALES DE REFERENCIA

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Members:

My name is Anna Marie Ledesma-Miklovic and I am long overdue in introducing
myself. I had joined about year ago with the intentions of spending more
time on my research but time flew by so quickly for me with having a few
losses in our family and the devastation of the San Diego's Witch Creek Fire
last October in our neighborhood that I just didn't have the time to get
into it then. I am now ready to continue my research again and although I am
not new to genealogy research, this would be the first for me in doing
research in Zacatecas, Mexico. My Grandfather's family is from Zacatecas
City, Zacatecas. From the little research I have done so far, I believe my
Ledesma line is from an area called El Sagrario or Santo Domingo in
Zacatecas City. I found an LDS record - Batch No. C600785 from 1863 that has
an Yrineo Ledesma-Rodarte that may be a connection to the family line. I
will be going to the Family History Center next week to order the film.

My grandfather, Luis Ledesma's parents were Yrineo Ledesma and Valentina
Najera. In researching the Najera line, I keep coming across the surname
"NAJAR" as I do not find that many "Najera" from El Sagrario/Santo Domingo,
Zacatecas City. Does anyone know if these two surnames would be the same? I
found an LDS record of a Valentina Neajar from El Sagrario (I believe the
spelling of the surname is misspelled) and a Trenes Ledesma having a
daughter named Adelaida Ledesma in 1886. (LDS Batch No. I025120). I will
also be requesting the film on this at the Family History Center.

Another finding that puzzles me is that Valentina Najera was born February
14, 1859 and Luis Ledesma was born in 1906. Valentina was 47 years old when
she had Luis. Does anyone know if women during these times still gave birth
at this age?

Here are the family members I am researching on:

1 Yrineo Ledesma 1863 ..

+Valentina Najera 1859 - 1944

........ 2 Jose Ledesma 1872 - Unknown

........ 2 Margarita Ledesma - Unknown

........ 2 Luis Ledesma 1906 - 1982 (Grandfather)

............ +Angelina Mejia 1912 - 2006 (Grandmother)

I will also be researching my Grandmother's family line - Mejia-Llanas from
San Miguelito, San Luis Potosi, San Luis Potosi, Mexico. What I found so far
is as follows:

LDS M601892 dates 1869-1885 ; source # 0709866

Pedro Yanas (last name misspelled)

Married Maria Trinidad Mares on June 8 1871, San Miguelito, San Luis
Potosi, San Luis Potosi, Mexico

(they would be my great-great grandparents)

They had a daughter, Anselma Mejia (my great grandmother). Trinidad Mares
died giving birth to Anselma and Trinidad's mother raised Anselma. Family
does not know Trinidad's mother's name as she was known as "Abuelita".

I have enjoyed reading each member's discoveries of their family line
connections and sharing their knowledge of their genealogy research. I am
looking forward in sharing my findings to this informative genealogy
website. Thanks for allowing me to be a member.

Anna Marie Ledesma-Miklovic from San Diego

Vatican letter directs bishops to keep parish records from Mormons

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm

While this is not included in the Nuestros Ranchos research, I am wondering if anyone out there might know how/where I can contact ALMA ROSA LONGORIA GUZMAN CRUZ, who,
along with her siblings has done extensive genealogy on NE Mexico, more precisely Mier,
Camargo, Guerrero, etc.

Thanks for any information.
Juanita Delgado

---------------------------------
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Connie.......please check to see if any LIENDO or DE LA ROSA are included in
this index......Thanks so much~!

Josie in San Antonio

Connie Dominguez wrote:

"Something to remember about the book: 1) most of these letters were written
VERY soon after conquest...and the real flood of immigrants I think came a
bit later (The Romo de Vivars and Ruiz de Esparzas didn't immigrate until
the late 16th or early 17th centuries and really didn't play a factor in
this community at

the time of these letters); 2) many of these letters are from

Mexico proper and Puebla, with a few outliers in Zacatecas, probably because
few letters were collected from the sparsely populated new frontiers; and 3)
the book does include letters from Central and South America.

All in all, a worthwhile publication if you have EARLY immigrants."

Connie Dominguez El Paso, TX, USA

Joseph and I have been talking about upgrading the site. The site was built two years ago and since then, there have been many improvements to the underlying "content managament system" that serves as the core for the site.

This is going to be no easy process as there have been many custom additions we have made to that software. We were thinking of taking the site down sometime this summer. It may be up to a week before we can have it back up. In the meantime, members will be able to continue discussions via the email lists.

Please let us know your thoughts on this. Once we have a firm date, we will notify members so that if a member has turned off one or more of their email lists, they can turn them back on before the site goes down if they would like to continue participating in the discussions.

I will also use this opportunity to ask if there is any member out there who is tech saavy and would like to learn how the site functions so that they can help with the maintenance (and perhaps upgrading) of the site. The site basically runs on PHP and MySQL on a Unix server.

 
I was born in Aguascalientes, Ags. but live in Texas,  and from my mother [Eva de Loera] have been able to determine that my maternal grandmother [Maria del Socorro Loera] was born in El Terrero de la Labor c1930 and died 1977 in Ags., and that her mother [Petra Lara Loera] was born c1903 and died 1994 within the same geographical area.  My maternal grandfather [Cesareo de Loera] was also born in El Terrero de la Labor c1925 but i do not know his d.o.b. yet but he died @ 2 years ago.
 
Verbal accounts show that my maternal grandmother was a twin and had at least 5 siblings and that her mother had over 9 siblings all from Ojocaliente or Calvillo area. Their names are as follows:  Arnulfo de Loera, Herminio de Loera, Jesus de Loera, Jose de Loera (died 198?), Samuel de Loera, Hermelinda de Loera, Fidel de Loera (died c1926)
My great-great-grand-father Jose de Loera married (1st marriage) Dominga Luevano [who later died] they had the following children:  Braulio de Loera, Felicitas de Loera, Jesus de Loera (female) , Jose de Loera, Melecio de Loera, Miguel de Loera, Natalia de Loera, Refugio de Loera (female), Victoria de Loera
Jose then married a much younger woman Rosita (Lara???) and had the following children:  Camilo de Loera, Ines de Loera (female), Maclovia de Loera, Paula de Loera, Ramon de Loera, Santos de Loera, Silvestre de Loera
I have not been able to connect any names from the LDS files yet! but have not lost hope.  I was told that there was a fire that destroyed most records from the local registry and have asked several relatives that planned to attend "La Feria de San Marcos" to make time and search local archives.
I've been interviewing several elderly relatives but still do not have actual dates for most names.  My maternal family's name "according to my mother" is de Loera and not Loera.  My paternal surname is Alatorre but I am still trying to determine if from Zacatecas or Aguascalientes.
 
Cordially,
 
Karina Alatorre de Loera

____________________________________________________________________________________
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I just posted an updated file of my records on Rootsweb.com. If you enter my uncle " Rito Castanon 1919" it will pull up my personal family tree then you can go to index and search for whatever surname you are researching. The records cover mostly District of Jerez Zacatecas and related areas, Zapotlan El Grande/Ciudad Gusman, Tamazula de Gordiano and other related cities in Jalisco and Chilchota and related cities in Michoacan.

I had to make choices on surname spellings so please check probablilites as well as what you know them to be.

I would have loved to just post in in our Nuestros Ranchos site but the file is too large, this is the best I can do at this time. I have at least 4 films yet to enter and do attempt to udate at least every month or two. I am also willing to share films I've copied if you have a program that works with mine, just let me know and I will forward them to you. I offer this because there are many names copied that never get into my records, hopefully someone is searching for them.

I hope my research can be of use to others as your sharing has helped me.

Linda Castanon-Long in Everett

Hello, My name is America Quintero and I am looking into my fathers family
history. My father says my grandfather was born in Tuxpan Jalisco, he moved
to Monterrey, had a family there and then passed away. His name was
Salvador Quintero Del Rio. I am very interested in knowing my fathers
family history because of a family mystery. My grandfather and my
grandfathers mother both had tattoos of numbers on their arms. They did not
speak of them and hid them by always wearing long sleeves. I hope to find
what I am looking for. Tips and ideas are welcomed.

Thank you,
--
America Quintero Calleros

I am ordering up microfilm for baptism records for both Huejucar and Cololan for the mid-1880s.

Some of the dates are overlapped by baptisms "naturales". I am not exactly sure what that means.

Which one is best to order to find all the necessary data: the baptisms, the baptisms "naturales", or should I order BOTH sets to be sure to find the necessary data?

This is a second Test Test Test...

TEST

~~glo~~

```````````````````````````````````````
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees--Emilano Zapata

Invitation:

You are cordially invited to attend the SoCal meeting. At the present time about 12 members in the Southern California area have expressed their desire to attend.

The month of June is not the ideal time to hold the meeting because members have vacations and graduations that take preference over this meeting.

The meeting is scheduled for Saturday, May 24, 2008. scheduled to start at 10:00 A. M.

It will be held at:

24017 Esmeralda Ct.
Wildomar, CA. 92595
Phone: 951-304-3082
1gnzlz@verizon.net

I recommend that you go to Mapquest.com to see and get a map of the area. GoogleEarth is another source that will also show the exact location.

If you have any questions please contact me directly at 1gnzlz@verizon.net or via the phone number listed above.

I am excited and looking forward to meeting some new members and seeing my "old Primos" again.

I will post a reminder again about one week before the above mentioned date to make sure you don't forget.

Thank you.

John Gonzalez.

Arturoramos wrote:
> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:06:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: arturoramos
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Wisconsin Rancheros
> Linda:
>
> There are a number of other Nuestros Ranchos members in Wisconsin.
> You can find them by clicking on "My Account" from the right-hand
> menu and then clicking on "Wisconsin" from your own profile.
>
> Alternatively, you can click on the "Search" button on the upper
> right, click on the "User" tab and then do an advanced search where
> you select "Wisconsin" for under the "State/Province" field.
>
> Good luck!
>
> It is great to see people take the initiative to get together in
> person. I have had the pleasure and fortune of meeting several
> Nuestros Ranchos members in California, Utah and here in DC and it
> has been a wonderful experience each time.

Thank you, Arturo. I did not know this procedure for finding members
in my state. There are only 5 of us and only one other is
researching Tepa. I will contact him.

Thank you
Linda

Hi, Primos, Primas, and fellow members:

It has been some time since the Nuestros Ranchos Group members in the Southern California area had a meeting. I have been waiting for somebody to suggest it, but time is flying by and it would be nice if we got together again.

I would like to know if there is enough interest to get together sometime in the very near future, possibly sometime in June. I will be more than glad to host the meeting at my house. I live in Wildomar, just South of Lake Elsinore and North of Temecula.
The date of the meeting can be determined by members submitting a date which is convenient to them. I think a Saturday would be a good day to hold it.

I am looking forward to seeing all of our members again and also I would like to extend the invitation to the new members of the Nuestros Ranchos Group who reside in this area. It is a great opportunity to meet with your fellow researchers and exchange ideas and information.

If you like the idea of getting together again, please submitt a date through this forum or contact me directly: 1gnzlz@verizon.net

More details of the meeting will be made available through this forum as soon as as the final decision is made to have the meeting and a date is set.

Thank you.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA
1gnzlz@verizon.net

Hi Wisconsin Nuestros Ranchos members,

Are there people in the Milwaukee, Madison, Racine/Kenosha area who
would like to meet, exchange information, and compare genealogies etc.?

If so, contact me and we can set up a meeting date.

Linda Romero
romero89 AT earthlink.net

>
> Mickey and Joseph,

Anytime you are ready, we'd love to see you attend one of our meetings.

Joseph, filing as a non-profit in California is pretty straight-forward. You
file the appropriate form with the Secretary of State's office and pay
$10.00. That's all there is to it.

Maria

Maria

Wish Josie and I could go....maybe next time....say hello to our friends!!

Mickey

In a message dated 4/24/2008 2:38:38 P.M. Central Standard Time,
makas@nc.rr.com writes:

Wow you guys continue to do great things. I want to hear more about
becoming a non-profit. Maybe the nuestrosranchos.org group should do the
same.

and you all know how to honor someone. I'm really not sure when it will
be possible for me to come to one of your meetings but I'll definitely
look forward to it one day. Arturo seems to travel a lot more than I so
maybe he would be able to attend sooner.

thanks again for the compliment of making me and Arturo a "long range
goal" (big grin)

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

MariaCortez wrote:
> John and other Nuestros Ranchos members,
>
> You are all cordially invited to attend the next meeting in Northern
California. The meeting is scheduled as follows:
>
> Date of Event: May 17, 2008
> Event time: 10:30 am - 2:30 pm
> Location: Raley's Event Center
> 4900 Elk Grove Blvd.
> Elk Grove, CA
>
> Our group is in the process of formalizing its structure. We are filing
as a non-profit organization called "Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society". We
hope to be a complementary group to Nuestros Ranchos and not to duplicate its
purpose or information. I maintain the distribution list, so if you want to
be notified of future events all you need to do is send me a direct e-mail
and I will add you to the list.
>
> We do not want to restrict membership to Nueva Galicia researchers only
and any serious researcher is welcome to attend our meetings. We will be
adopting Bylaws for our group at the upcoming meeting and will be developing a
website.
>
> Some of our past activities include: have gone on field trips as a group,
discuss research techniques, held picnics, reviewed books, etc. We plan on
setting up a booth at the Festival de la Familia which is held yearly in
Sacramento, CA. Our meetings are lively and is made up of some very talented
individuals. One of our long range goals is to have Joseph and/or Arturo
attend one of our meetings.
>
> John, I will add you to my distribution list and I hope to see you and
other primos and primas at our next meeting. An RSVP one week prior is
appreciated since the meeting room is small, but if necessary I could try to find a
larger room to accomodate everyone.
>
> Maria Cortez