So, originally, the parish of Ayo el Chico (Ayotlán) encompassed most of what are now the municipios of Ayotlán, Arandas, Jesús María and Degollado. In the late 1700s the parish Ayo el Chico was split into two, Ayo el Chico and Arandas. Later, in about the 1820s or 1830s the parish of Arandas was split into two as well, Arandas and Jesús María (also known for a time as Barranca de Viudas).

I looked for El Carrizal in the 1825 padrón for Arandas and Jesús María. There are two places named El Carrizal: El Carrizal de Arriba and El Carrizal de Abajo. They are listed together in the padrón so it is very likely that they were located next to or close to each other. Based on the names of some of the other places that were listed along with the two Carrizales, and with the help of a somewhat recent municipal map of Arandas, it is likely that El Carrizal was located about here: 20°40'43.5"N 102°23'37.0"W. Similarly, El Chilarejo was possibly located here: 20°42'02.0"N 102°19'49.7"W.

So, as you suggested, El Carrizal (which translates to The Reedbed) is a common place name in the region. What is the name of the parish or town that your ancestors went to for their Sacraments? An old padrón for that location may provide some clues to the current location of the El Carrizal you are curious about.

Could not find a marriage record for Juan Estrada and Francisca Hernandes, but did find at least 4 children of theirs.

Mariano Estrada, Simona Estrada, Maria Matilde Estrada, and Claro Estrada.   Of these 4 children only Claro Estrada's baptism record was found. This record not only provided the names of his parents, Juan Estrada and Francisca Hernandes, but the names of his paternal/maternal grand-parents. In this record Juan's father was listed as Mariano Estrada and his mother as Luisa Reyes [Surname Ramires was stated in the death record]. Francisca's father was noted as Marcelino Hernandes and mother was Apolonia Medina (Surname in other records noted as Almansa).  The link for Claro's baptism record is listed below. 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-4KS6-L?cc=1804458

Now that we know who the parents of Juan Estrada are, we begin looking for links for Mariano Estrada and wife Luisa Reyes/Ramires

Luckily one baptism record was found for Maria Epifania del Refugio Estrada (Juan's sister), who was baptised in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico on 9 April 1825. The record stated that she was born on 6 April 1825 in Hacienda de Las Juntas (Located within Teocaltiche Jurisdiction). The record did not provide a lot of information as to parentage, only listing the mother of Mariano Estrada as Josefa Estrada (father unknown). Both parents of Luisa Reyes were unknown.

The link for Epifania's baptism record is listed below:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G57Q-8B?cc=1874591

Mariano Estrada is next found in San Jose de Gracia, Rincon de Romos, Aguascalientes, Mexico in 1833, where he died.  His burial record is listed on 1 Jan 1833. He died in El Rio (within San Jose de Gracia jurisdiction). His cause of death was listed as Colico (Colic). He was listed as 70 years of age in 1833, placing his year of birth around 1763. Also listed on this record was wife Maria Luisa de Reyes. The link for his burial record is included below.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-63V3-TTH?cc=1502404
 

A couple of points for the last burial record is that he was much older then originally thought. First, Mariano was having children in 1825 and again about 1831, only a few years before he died in 1833. Maria Luisa de Reyes/Ramires must have been a bit younger to have children this late. This may also explain the lack of information that Juan Estrada had with regard to his father, who was only about 2 years old when he died.  It may also be probable that Mariano was married prior to his marriage with Luisa.

Moving on to the parentage of Francisca Hernandes.  We know from records listed above that her parents were Marcelino Hernandes and Maria Apolonia Almansa/Medina.

In the 1824 Ojo Caliente Padron (census), the parents of Francisca Hernandes were listed, in the area of San Diego (Zacatecas). Marcelino Hernandes was listed as age 21 (born around 1803) and Apolonia (Polonia) Almaras was listed as age 16 (born around 1803).  This census area has many Estrada and Hernandes families, likely with some ties with some of them.  At least 1 child of Marcelino/Apolonia is listed in baptism records in 1842 San Jose de Gracia (Rincon de Romos) records.  The record only names the father of Marcelino as Bacilo Hernandes, but lists the parentage of Apolonia Almansa as Ygnacio Almansa/Manuela Sanches. Bacilio's wife is noted as Paula Ybarra in the 1824 census. The Padron (census) link is included below:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-295Y?cat=32677&i=130

That is all the info I have found on the elder families.  

First of all welcome to the site!  The information you provided leaves very little to go on, but I will try to see if the Juan Estrada you have mentioned is from your family branch. My initial curiosity was in looking for any Juchipila "Estrada" family connections, which it does not appear there are any. 

The only Juan Estrada that died on 8 May 1863 in Zacatecas, Mexico is of Guadalupe, Zacatecas, Mexico, listed in Civil Records (See Link below). Juan Estrada was listed as a bricklayer, 32 years old, and it was stated within the death record that he was originally from San Joseph de Yslas, which is now Genaro Codina (Zacatecas). I believe early records are also found for this general area in Ojo Caliente (Zacatecas), Panuco (Zacatecas), and Calera Victor Rosales (Zacatecas).  Nearly all of these locations have incomplete genealogy records, so gathering information can be tough.  The death record also mentioned that Juan Estrada left a widow in Francisca Hernandes(z). The officials noted they didn't know who the father of Juan Estrada was, but that his mother was Luisa Ramires. It does not appear that any Estrada or Hernandes(z) family members were listed as contributing to this death record, which can often leave gaps or slightly inaccurate family info. If this is the correct family, I will try to provide more info once I know this is who you're interested in.  

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G5V5-F3S?cc=1916240

Here you go: 

Francisco de Cobarrubias vecino destas minas parezco ante vuestra merced y digo que por informaciones y recaudos bastantes que en mi poder tengo tengo probado y averiguado ser como en efecto soy natural de la villa de cobarrubias en los Reinos de españa que es en la diocesis y obispado de burgos y hijo legitimo de martin de navarrete y de ysabel hernandez de logroño su legitima muger mis padres y de como fueron casados legitimamente segun orden de la santa madre yglesia de Roma y que durante este matrimonio ubieron por sus hijos legitimos a mi el dho francisco de cobarrubias y a pedro navarrete mi hermano

I, Francisco de Covarrubias, a resident of these mines, appear before your grace and I say that by sufficient information and records that I have in my possession, I have proven and ascertained that I am, as a matter of fact, a native of the town of Covarrubias in the Kingdoms of Spain, which is in the diocese and bishopric of Burgos, and the legitimate son of Martin de Navarrete and of Isabel Hernandez de Logroño, his legitimate wife, my parents, and how they were legitimately married according to the order of the Holy Mother Church of Rome, and that during this marriage, they had as their legitimate children the aforementioned Francisco de Covarrubias and Pedro Navarrete, my brother.

Saludos!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

I acquired this source from the Huntington Library. I just uploaded the entire document for you if you want it.

https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/34027

He says that he is from the town of Covarrubias in the kingdoms of Spain, that’s in the diocese and bishopric of Burgos; he is the legitimate son of Martin de Navarrete and of Isabel Hernandez de Logroño, who, during their marriage, gave birth to him and to his brother, Pedro Navarrete. In the second image, he says he’s married to Isabel de Rodas, daughter of Francisco Solano Calderon and Francisca Jimenez Altamirano, residents of Garciaz, tierra de Trujillo, in the kingdoms of Castilla (Garciaz, Caceres, Extremadura).

Saludos,

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Hello Dana and welcome to nuestrosranchos,

The answer is that my book isn’t published yet.  And the answer to your other question about the Ruiz de Esparza ancestry on familysearch is that most of what they put is straight out of what I wrote here.  But they have a big mistake as they put a wrong wife in The lineage.   The wifes are the ones that I have posted here on nuestrosranchos.

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

3). Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici (Vici), señor del palacio de Esparza (Galar), vecino de Pamplona and Maria de Espinosa (Spinosa) are the parents of Lope Ruiz de Esparza.   On familysearch I see that they wrongly post Martins third wife as the mother of Lope Ruiz de Esparza  Sr.  The mistake that I had put in my previous post was when I added Mariano Gonzalez Leal’s mistake that Capitan Andres Ruiz de Esparza (b.1542) was a brother of Lope Ruiz de Esparza Jr.   He is related but  not a brother. 

Rick A. Ricci

Hi Everyone,

I read the recent comments regarding dietary customs and slaughtering rituals and want to share a link to research released in the 1990s by Schulamith Halevy. She researched Sephardic customs remaining in northern Mexico. If you scroll down to Chapter 4 of her paper, you will find a list of customs and rituals. If any of these customs are familiar to your family, please share with us. I'd also be curious to know what family branches the customs descend from and whether the families connect to my tree. Here's the link:

https://www.cs.tau.ac.il/%7Enachum/sch/AnusimMexico.pdf

I've heard this tale before, but only from small regions in central Mexico. It might be left over by migrating Spaniards from the areas in Southern Spain controlled over many centuries by the Moors and further influenced by the Sephardic populations residing there. 

For the most part, Mexico's past cuisine didn't lend itself to mixing pork with cheese...probably due to the ingredients, safety handling and the crude storage methods used long ago. Today's cuisine say...pork carnitas burrito a la wet with melted cheese, sauce and sour cream has put that notion to rest.

From what I've uncovered is that many of the early settlers from Spain to Mexico were from the northern region of Spain where pork is used abundantly and lard is almost always used as a cooking oil. This may explain why Mexico isn't really known for olive oil use as in other South American countries and olive oil is perceived as medicinal rather than for general cooking. 

As to why some Mexican habits, cuisine and myths may seem to be Jewish or Moorish in origin or likeness...well...a significant portion of Spain was under their control (Moors-North African) and influence (Sephardic-Jewish) for 700 hundred years and these idiosyncrasies were brought over as just ordinary ways of life. It doesn't mean that we are directly related to these groups, but possibly just influenced by them. My Filippina partner also has many similar tales as well.

As to Why "No Pizza Then"?

Neopolitans, Sicilians and Calabrese in Italy were once part of the Spanish Empire. As part or the vast Mediterranean culture, these two groups [Spanish and Southern Italians] are probably the most similar in the entire region. This cross cultural influence at the beginning of the colonialist era in Mexico may further cement the fact that there was a minimal Kosher influence in the early settlers as dietary habits were similar at the beginning and only diverged in modern times. This particular topic opens up a whole new understanding of how Mexico isn't really a country made up simply of Spaniards and Indigenous peoples, but a truly international and cosmopolitan hub preceding the United States as a melting pot. I have found that over many centuries certain regions/countries and peoples have had a significant influence in Mexico.

Here's a list:

India, China, Japan, The Philippines, The Netherlands (Holland), Switzerland, Italy, Portugal, France, Angola, Russia, Germany, North Africa...just to name a few.

I have never heard of this. I have heard of no pork, as someone else said. In my family we had a no blood rule. My mom grew up on a farm and her dad would always hang the animals upside down when slaughtering them for food by slicing them across the neck. All the blood had to drain into the ground before they could use the meat. When I asked my mom for the reason behind this, she said all she knew was that her father told her they should never eat the blood, because blood would make you sick. I know this is definitely not a widespread belief in Mexican culture, so I think it could reflect a Jewish influence. In that same vein (no pun intended!), on both sides of my family no egg is eaten without first inspecting it for any sign of blood. If there's even one spot, the whole egg gets thrown out. 

Hi David, 

It may be a far reaching custom derived from Jewish dietary law, except observant and some non-observant Jews to this day would NEVER eat pork.  As a matter of fact, they won’t even mention the word “pork”. 

You are correct that they will not mix dairy with beef. No cheeseburgers for them. 

Dietary laws are found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14:21-22. 

Happy researching. 

Hi David, 

It may be a far reaching custom derived from Jewish dietary law, except observant and some non-observant Jews to this day would NEVER eat pork.  As a matter of fact, they won’t even mention the word “pork”. 

You are correct that they will not mix dairy with beef. No cheeseburgers for them. 

Dietary laws are found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14:21-22. 

Happy researching. 

I just joined Nuestros Ranchos in April 2025 with hopes of finding more about the Esparza family that originated in Pamplona, Spain, among other challenges. I ran into Nuestros Ranchos while searching for documentation that verifies what is posted on Family Search. I see that these posts are from 2016 and am wondering whether the book mentioned by Rick A. Ricci has been published. If nothing else, the posts here have given me new resources to investigate. I'm happy to share anything new that I might discover, but there's so much here, I don't know whether I'll find more than what's already been shared.  

My tree created using Family Search is in my folder is at  https://nuestrosranchos.org/lambchop48, but the names and dates, especially in the Esparza branch, seem to change every time I look! My goal is to be able to find and use source document with correct dates, so the mess can be unraveled. 

In re-reading this post, the death information for Lope Ruiz de Esparza needs to be corrected: he died on Aug 14, 1651, in Aguascalientes, and not Mexico, DF. See Aguascalientes Defunciones 1620-1752, film 299856, image 59.

His wife's death record is two pages later in the same film, where she appears an Ana de Gabai. That record also notes that she was the wife of Lope.

George Fulton

Thank you Marcelina. I like the euskera spelling better. also i think i may have found the relatives of juana zariquiegui or johanna Lopiz de Zariquiegui. theres a Johan Lopiz de Zariguiegui and a simon Lopiz de Zariquigui mentioned in the 1300s. i cant tell what it says about them but it doesnt look good. it looks like they might be criminals or something.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3LRXAAAAIAAJ&q=%22L%C3%B3piz+de+Zariq…

Danny C. Alonso

Thanks, R.A. Ricci and others, for all the research and collaborations you have shared with all of us in the group. I have been doing my family research for years, but compared to many of you, I'm still a part time amateur genealogist. Thanks to another member, Austin Perez, I was able to connect my Ursua ancestors to the Ruiz de Esparza family, so this post caught my immediate attention. It will be wonderful to see your research published in the future. Are you waiting until you find who is the father and grandfather of Sancho Ruiz de Esparza before you publish your book?

Saludos

Steve in NC

There is a booklet available on the Internet as a pdf that gives the ancestry of St. Francis Xavier: "La Familia de Atondo y La Genealogia de S. Francisco de Javier," published in Pamplona in 1920. Do a google search for "La Familia de Atondo" and the link should come up.

George Fulton

and where was he born?  I found the tree.  Cleaned a little bit up.... 

https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/GV26-JW6

the link no longer works

I belong to 23 and me, and Ancestry.com, Still have not found anyone other than my sister Armida Shore, who is Haplogroup X2a1a. My great grandmother name was Vinita, I have no other information, although we believe she was from Chihuahua, Mexico.

I clicked on the page and it said nothing there.  who do I send my MTDNA information too?  Joseph is that you?

________________________________
From: "guadalajaradispensas@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:12 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] mtDNA Haplogroup Database - NR Members - NEW RESULTS

Hi folks,
It has been almost a year since I've updated the NuestrosRanchos mtDNA databse located here: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19799

I plan to upload some fresh additions but before I do that - given that more members have tested - I am posting this announcement in hopes that we get more interest and more additions.

If you want to add your details, please send me a private message and I will update. Please include:
1) mtDNA Haplogroup (A, B, C, D or X)
2) name of farthest ancestress you can document (mother's-mother's-mother, etc.)
3) date of birth for this ancestress
4) place of birth for this ancestress
5) your email address

--------------------------------

Haplogrupos de mtDNA (ADN matrilineal) de los miembros de NuetrosRanchos. Favor de enviarme un mail privado si quieren agrerar su informacion. Subire una nueva version cada mes.
Favor de anotar:
1) Haplogrupo mtDNA (A, B, C, D, or X)
2) nombre de la madre ancestral mas lejana, que puedes documentar
3) fecha de nacimiento de esta mujer
4) lugar de nacimiento de esta mujer
5) tu correo electronico

The Ocampo surname would typically be the Mother's maiden name....but his mother's maiden name is Amezcua.... I have not seen a record where the Ocampo is used as part of his name.

profile directly on familysearch.org....    he just recently did updated in feb 2025....  you can chat there directly.  

even has the same picture..... if you want me to I will merge the individuals.... the parents had 2 kids with the same name.....so I suspect one of them died as a baby..... seen that quite a bit....  one was born in 1883 and one was born in 1887......anyway check me:

Jenna1398

https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/G7YN-PX9

Well....there is a whole tree here but you don't mention (or I missed) some part of the tree.....  https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/9V9G-FRW

Was Manuel Padilla the actual father of Manuel Amezcua?  The birth registration states that she had been widowed from Porfirio Orozco for 2 years at time of Manuel Amezcua birth.....  and does NOT list a father for Manuel Amezcua.  

In the family tree somebody has placed under Manuel Padilla as his son?  Is this correct?  Did she ever marry Manuel Padilla?  If so we can go look for that document.

Welcome to Nuestros Ranchos Jenn!

That's unfortunate you know so little about your paternal great grandfather, Manuel Padilla. He sounds like an interesting person. Your grandfather Manuel's baptismal record mentions he was born out of wedlock (hijo natural) and makes no mention of his father. The same goes for his birth record which also makes no mention of his father. If you haven't already done so, consider using DNA matches to help you in your search for Manuel Padilla and his ancestors.

• Profile of Manuel Amezcua aka Ames on Family Search (FS)

Buenas tardes, recién encontré un acta de bautismo en la que se dan los nombres de los padres, al parecer Nicolás Navarro de Alcocer fue hijo de Pedro Navarro y María Cabrera, en el caso de Josefa Hurtado, señala que sus padres fueron Luis Herrera(?) y Juana Hurtado de Mendoza. No he encontrado información de Luis y Juana pero apenas estoy empezando a investigar.

Fuente: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TZ-X?lang=es&i=400

Saludos.

Buenas tardes, recién encontré un acta de bautismo en la que se dan los nombres de los padres, al parecer Nicolás Navarro de Alcocer fue hijo de Pedro Navarro y María Cabrera, en el caso de Josefa Hurtado, señala que sus padres fueron Luis Herrera(?) y Juana Hurtado de Mendoza. No he encontrado información de Luis y Juana pero apenas estoy empezando a investigar.

Fuente: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TZ-X?lang=es&i=400

Saludos.

Ya tentastes consultar el casamiento de Nicolás Navarro y Josefa Hurtado de Mendoza? Fueron casados el 20 de junio de 1675 en Ocotlán.
Daniel

Este ramo de los Hurtado de Mendoza de Ocotlán descienden de D. Nicolás González de Mendoza quien fué bautizado el 16 de febrero de 1636 en Ocotlán hijo legítimo de Juan González Florida y Juana Hurtado de Mendoza, postoriormente usó el apellido González de Mendoza. Era nieto de Pedro Núñez de Sotomayor y Ana Hurtado de Mendoza. Esta familia tuvó sucesión en Michoacán (Zamora y Morelia) y en Guadalajara. Dicho Nicolás falleció el 15 de julio de 1693 en Ocotlán y casó el 20 de abril de 1669 en la misma ciudad. Creio que por aquí deves investigar. Se fuese Hurtado de Mendoza estaríamos en la dirección correcta. Puede ser que sea hermana de Nicolás González de Mendoza, ya que era custumbre usar el apellido de la madre en cierto casos. Ahora, en relación con el hipótesis que Nicolás Navarro y Gaytán sea el mismo, es possible. Hasta ahora no he encontrado ningún acta de defunción ni casamento. Tendríamos que localizarlo. Sé que Nicolás Navarro Gaytán y Cabrera fue bautizado el 24 de febrero de 1632 en la ciudad ya menecionada. Espero que estas informaciones sean útiles.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y CaminoSão Paulo - SP - Brasil

https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/G8BQ-DY4

I looked around saw this...  

I suspect that "Santos" and "Santiago" are the same person.  You will note that many Mexican documents use alterations and nicknames for the original name.  Preponderance of information indicates that for the children being born and married that mention these names is the he is one and the same. 

Through my research.  I believe, Captain Pedro de Anda was my 10th great-grandfather.  

Cap, Pedro De Anda es mi noveno bisabuelo. Segun la informacion que he encontrado sus padres fueron Pedro De Anda y Isabela Altamirano. Pero no he visto bautizo que confirme esta informacion.
El Rey Felipe II de Espana por medio de la Real Audencia de Nueva Galicia ortogo el 27 de agosto de 1565 al matrimonio de espanoles formado por el capitan Pedro de Anda y su mujer Beatriz de Casaneda, para fundar la hacienda del Xaral junto a la Mesa redonda al poniente de Santa Maria de los Lagos, para la cria de ganado major de 1,756 hectareas mas dos caballerias de tierra con 42.8 hectareas cada una.
Juan Anda Altamirano hijo de Pedro es mi octavo bisabuelo.

Aurora (De Anda) Romo. Mis padres nacieron en Aguascalientes.

Valladolid, 1689.
20. Información matrimonial formada a solicitud de Diego de Anaya y Andrea de Avalos, vecinos de esta ciudad. Ante el Lic. Álvaro de Contreras y Garnica.
Ubicación: Rollo 3/078, Alguien ha visto este registro? Gracias

Otro dato importante es de que Alonso de Arias Maldonado tuvo por lo menos una hermana, Jacinta de Guzman Maldonado. Esta Jacinta fue casada con Jorge Manrriquez de Lara quienes fueron vecinos de Irapuato, GTO. Sabemos esto por el testimonio que dio su nieto (el Br. Antonio Arias Maldonado) en donde menciona que el Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado es primo de su padre:
...Licdo D. Joseph Manrriquez Maldonado primo lto. de dho mi Pe...

Aqui les paso informacion en donde el Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado menciona a sus padres:

Informacion del Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado

Asi que si combinamos esta informacion del Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado con la del Lic. Antonio Arias Maldonado tenemos lo siguiente:

(Hermanos) Alonso Arias Maldonado <-------> Jacinta de Guzman Maldonado
(Primos) Alonso Arias Maldonado <-------> Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado
(Nietos) Br. Antonio Arias Maldonado

Saludos Cordiales,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Interesante. Gracias por compartir. Estoy buscando a Alonso Arias Maldonado quien vivió entre 1590 y 1680. Hasta ahora no he encontrado muchos rastros de él aunque sus hijos fueron bautizados en Tlazazalca. Saludos!

Manny,

Thank you for sharing!

The 1649 padrón also contains assorted maps on the last few images. My guess is that they are from the 1980s.

• Imagen 26 - Mapa del Sistema La Zurda-Calderón, un proyecto de abastecimiento de agua para la Zona Metropolitana de Guadalajara (después de 1980)
• Imagen 27 - Mapa de Jalostotitlán, Jalisco (sin fecha)
• Imagen 28 - Índice del mapa de Jalostotitlán (sin fecha)
• Imagen 29 - Mapa del municipio de San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco (sin fecha)
• Imagen 30 - Mapa de Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, (sin fecha)
• Imagen 31- Mapa de San Miguel el Alto (sin fecha)

Padrones adicionales de Jalostotitlán:

• 1650 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-W92C
• 1670 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-W9K2
• 1672 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-W9JY
• 1673 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-W9MR
• 1679 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-W9N3
• 1770 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-W1W
• 1817 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-7519
• 1819 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-7RZK
• 1824 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-7R43
• 1831 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-75FQ
• 1833 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-7R9V
• 1846 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-7RFG
• 1885 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K7-75VH
• Varios años - Padrones de la parroquia de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción

I’ve been researching the Rosas of Valladolid>Guadalajara for about a dozen years. I descend from Nicolas de Rosas & Isabel de Guzman, through their son Carlos de Rosas. And while Nicolas and Isabel did baptize a son named Domingo in 1668, I’ve been unable to determine whether he is the same who married Juana Berrinches Ramirez. The last record I have of Domingo de Rosas Guzman is when he and his sister Isabel were godparents for a cousin’s child on 9 Apr 1697 in Ocotlan. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5R4-3?i=417&wc=3J6F-7…

He is probably the same person - if not, then your Domingo de Rosas might be the son of Nicolas’ brother, Juan de Rosas, who married Juana de la Mora Zamora on 27 Aug 1656 in Ocotlan: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G55W-J?i=151&wc=3J6F-7…
Though I have no record of them having a son named Domingo, it’s possible.

Good luck, let us know if you find anything.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

I found this interesting info for a Bernardino with similar name..... seems to me he married his first cousin looking at the tree.  Not sure if it was what you were looking for but quite interesting with common names.

Marriage was like 1835 so the years are off but it seemed like you were relying on memory for the 1700-1750 date range anyway.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:684K-RTCB?lang=en

https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/M2ZB-578

Sorry I cannot help. I usually input all dispensas on my tree and I am interested in those surnames so I would have done it if I had found it. I didn't find those brothers on my tree.

Any more info? The dispensa specifically said both Bernadino's were brothers?

Miguel,

I also noticed you were looking for info out of the book: Los Torres de Jaén en México:
raíces, tronco y ramas de una estirpe milenaria
Gonzalo Torres Martínez
Editorial Jus, 1975 - Jaén (Spain) - 764 pages

Welcome to the club. I am also interested in the sources that this book may list.

The closest hard copy of the book for me is in the large LDS genealogy library in Salt Lake
City, Utah. There may be another library closer to you, as I live in Arizona.

I too am interested in this book, as it is my only source reference to the marriage date of
Bernabe Felipe de Torres and Ana "Anna" Zermeno. The book states they were married on 1 May
1739 in Lagos de Moreno.  I have yet to find this in typical online Lagos and surrounding
parish records. I do believe the date of the marriage is correct, because I do have the 1739
marriage informacion record via the Arquidiocesis de Morelia at the following link:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BKYL-M?cc=1883388

I am currently using the 1 May 1739 date of marriage, but would like to find the source info.
The last date in the marriage information record is 2 April 1739, which is in the range for a 
1 May 1739 marriage, after the Arquidiocesis approved the marriage.

Also, I am not sure that Lagos was the marriage location, as the document is drafted out of
Leon, Guanajuato, but the document also states that that Ana Zermeno was from Lagos de Moreno,
and Bernabe Felipe Torres was from Jaen, Spain, but he resided in Leon.  

They very well could have been married in either location.  The source is likely from another
Lagos record, such as a will, inquistion, notary, or land record.

Lee

Hi Miguel,
Welcome to the Nuestros Ranchos site!.  I am one of 6 co-admins for the site, helping maintain the site "behind the scenes". This allows the great
folks that have ran this site for the last 20 years to operate the site. I really have not posted much on this site, since most of the relations of the
family of my wife are North of Jalisco, with the exception of some older Renteria and Reynoso families who I have researched over the years.
Several years ago my grand-son married into the Zermeno family, and hence my interest in this thread with your Merced Gonzales and Blas
Soto (mayor). The connection is distant, with the common ancestor being Antonio Tadeo Zermeno, baptized 25 Novemeber 1722 in Lagos. 
Ysidro Gonzales de Hermosillo married Maria Gertrudis Zermeno on 13 January 1766 in Lagos.  I have not researched this portion the family
much at all, since the connection is very distant, but Jose Rafael Gonzales de Hermosillo was one of their children, baptized in Lagos on
24 Sep 1776.  Rafael Gonzales Zermeno married Maria San Josefa Peres Prido on 6 February 1805 in Lagos.  

The 1805 marriage dispensation:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-893M-WXRL?cc=1937239
Registros matrimoniales diocesanos 1804 Caja 138
image 1252 of 1530
Late 1804 Marriage dispensation for Jose Rafael Gonsales (Gonsales Hermosillo Zermeno) and Maria San Josefa Peres (Peres Prido)
Rafael Gonsales is listed as originally from the Puesto of Agostadero (in San Juan de los Lagos?), but a resident of Lagos de Moreno.
Listed as the son of Ysidro Gonsales and Maria Gertrudis Zermeno.  His age in 1804 was listed as 27 years old (placing birth year
circa 1777).
Maria Josefa Peres is listed as originally of Lagos de Moreno.  Listed as the daughter of Jose Nicolas Peres (deceased) and Maria
de los Dolores Prido (living). Her age in 1804 was listed as 15 years old (placing birth year circa 1790)
The bride/groom were distantly related through the Zermeno family as follows:
Antonio Zermeno and Ana Zermeno were brother/sister
Antonio Zermeno was the father of Maria Gertrudis Zermeno, who was the mother of Rafael Gonsalez (groom)
Ana Zermeno was the mother of Ygnacia Torres, who was the mother of Dolores Prido, who was the mother of Maria San
Jose(fa) Peres (bride)

The 1839 Leon, Guanajuato marriage of Blas Soto (Mayor) and Merced Gonzales likely occurred about a month after the Information
Marriage was reviewed by the Arquidiócesis in Morelia, which appears to be approved at the end of the document, which is
dated 7 September 1839.  Not always, but normally marriages follow about 30 days afterward.  The Information Matrimonial document:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:2:77TF-VGNQ?cc=1883388
Morelia > Arquidiócesis de Morelia
Information matrimonial 1839
image 484 of 3359
The information of intent to marry was listed on 30 August 1839.
The main info:
Blas Soto was listed as 22 years of age in 1839, and noted as the son of Rafael Soto and Mateana Sardeneta.
Maria de la Merced Gonzales was listed as 26 years of age in 1839, and noted as the daughter of Rafael Gonzales and Josefa Perez
Prido (Josefa and Rafael both noted as deceased).
Also of interest was that both Blas and Merced could write well, and both signed this document.

Again,  Welcome to this site.

Lee
 

Hi Miguel,

I took a look and if I understand right the issue is you know Maria Merced Gonzalez and Blas Soto are your ancestors but you cannot determine with certainty who Maria Merced's parents are.

If that's the case, I see the tough spot. She died in 1860, prior to civil registration, and the death record does not list her parents.

I would try to locate her marriage record. Have you collected baptismal records for the couples children? 

Alex

have you seen this tree?  Lots of records with sources.  Also, Blas Soto uses the name Blas Sotomayor and Blas Soto Mayor.....   

  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G3H5-NPL

I know you asked a long time ago but anyway.....

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/L88D-JZ2

Andelmo Perez
You may want to check the church records of Amatlan de Jora, Nayarit. I've seen many entries with people from huejuquilla el alto. Sometimes just Huejuquilla. I'm right now in the 1800-1837 book. I haven't delved into the early ones. You may want to check La Yesca too.

Cheers,
AP

Thank you Don and Manny! After many years of research it's not often I that find new ancestors. But with this information I have added ten ancestors spanning 4 generations going back to Martín de Rifarache and Sábina de Esquivel. So grateful for your research and generosity!

Un cordial saludo.

Austin Pérez

According to testimonies, Ana de Herrera was daughter of Juan de Alanis cc Francisca de Herrera (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N23Z-FBL), and granddaughter of Cap Diego Vasquez de Buendia cc Juana Velasquez, though it doesn’t say who these two were the parents of - Juan de Alanis or Francisca de Herrera? I’ve never seen “Alanis” among the immediate descendants of Diego Vasquez de Buendia cc Juana Velasquez, but I have seen “Herrera”: their son, Hernan Vasquez de Buendia was married to Ana (or Juana) de Herrera, who was daughter of Benito de Herrera and Doña Francisca de Rifarache (daughter of conquistador Martin Rifarache cc Sabina Esquivel, and whose second husband was Cristobal Ordoñez). From the timeline, this would make more sense. And then I notice that, on image 523, witness Francisco Flores de la Torre says “los bisabuelos maternos fueron vecinos de la siudad de guadalaxa y se llamaron hernan basques y doña ana de errera y el capitan dio basques de buendia y da jua belasques” - which looks like he’s naming both pairs of maternal great-grandparents, but I think he’s mistaken, and he’s naming the visabuelos AND tatarabuelos: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6F99-H?cc=1874591&wc=3…

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
 

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/KN6H-K1Q

If you follow that tree backward you find yourself here:

ferando eanes de ornelas nacido en ~1200.... looks like these folks were from Amares, Braga, Portugal..... that is if it is the correct individual but there is already a tree created.

IF that is correct then it just may have been created as a name for the place he was from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornelas_(Amares)

https://gw.geneanet.org/serch1992?lang=es&n=de+ornelas&p=fernando+eanes

Do you have this info?  I think these are the folks you are asking about.   If not you can find it here:  https://es.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=de+Ornelas+y+Perestre…Álvaro+&prenom_operateur=or&with_variantes_nom=&with_variantes_nom_conjoint=&with_variantes_prenom=&with_variantes_prenom_conjoint=&size=10

 Alvaro de Ornelas Y Perestrello

• Nacido en 1561 - Canico, Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal
• Fallecido en 1614 - Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México, a la edad de 53 años

 Padres

• Joao Álvaro d'Ornellas Y Vasconcellos 1540-
• Luzia Perestrello 1543-

 Casamiento(s) y/e  hijo(s)

• Casado el 29 de octubre de 1586, Santa María de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico, con Isabel De Mendoza 1555- con
  • Manuel Ornelas Mendoza 1588-
  • Alonso de Ornelas y Mendoza 1590-
  • Maria de Ornelas de Mendoza 1595-1670
  • Rodrigo Ornelas de Mendoza 1597-1674
  • Alvaro Ornelas Mendoza 1598-
  • Leonor Ornelas Mendoza 1604-1679

 Hermanos

• Cezilia Ornellas
• Bonifácio Ornellas
• Joao Ornellas Moura †
• Alvaro de Ornelas Y Perestrello 1561-1614