SoCal Meeting

I just want to express my view and comment about our recent meeting that we had in Southern California.

First of all, I offer my thanks and appreciation to Olivia Jaurequi and her husband for being such wonderful hosts. I can imagine all the hard work and preparation that it took to take care of the group. The food was delicious and plentiful. My only regret is that I started with the Mole, beans, rice, salad,and the tasty Carne Asada and by that time, I had no room for the Menudo and pan dulce! Maybe next time I'll start with the Menudo.

I got to meet my two primos, Ken Alva and Ronnie Reynoso, a couple of very nice and wonderful guys. I had previously shared information with Ken over the internet and knew that we were related. That was not the case with Ronnie until we started sharing and comparing files, we are "primos" ! What a nice surprise.
One other thing that I found out from my "new Primos" was that all three of us have a descendency line from MOCTEZUMA!
All of this just 2 days after my 65th birthday. I couldn't have asked for a better gift.

I also like to send my thanks to Rosalinda for teaching me how to improve my research skills ( I am still learning) using the IGI. She is such a knowledgeable and unselfish person, willing to share her wisdom and resources with the rest of the group.
I would recommend this type of informal meeting to the rest of the members in other parts of the country. A lot can be learned and accomplished when you are face to face with fellow members. Thanks to the other attendees for making the meeting a wonderful experience.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

The IGI & Padre No Conocido

I don't know if this is appropriate to address to those planning to go to Salt Lake City in October, but I have a question about the way the IGI works as far as finding the children of women where in the record it says hijo natural or padre no conocido. Maybe someone at the main FHC or Mr. Ryskamp can answer the question.

I recently had help from Arturo on finding the birth record of an ancestor of my husband's and the birth records of the ancestor's parents. I asked him how he found the record so quickly, and he said he had just lucked out on the IGI query. (I never found it after years of looking). So, I thought well, maybe I will luck out today and find this ancestor's son. I got nowhere again on the IGI like had happened for years on this person. So I went back to my old way of going through thousands of people with that surname, and lo and behold, I did luck out. I found him listed with only one surname.

I found that the son had been born three years before the marriage of the people the son had listed as his parents in the baptism records of his children. His baptism record on the IGI only showed the name of his mother, no father listed. The IGI does not allow a search of parents unless you enter both parents' names, or at least the father's whole name and the first name of the mother. I wish that the IGI would allow a search with only the mother's name, since occasionally a woman will have a child out of wedlock and the father is listed as unknown. My question is: Is there any chance that the IGI will ever allow a query using just the mother's name?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Customs of Wedding /Celebrations/Food/

When I was a little girl many years ago (haha)., I can
remember going to weddings here in Kansas City. It
was an all day event. The wedding mass would begin
around 9:00 or 10:00, after mass we would have Mexican
bread and hot chocolate, then around 1:00 to 4:00 they
would have the reception with Chicken & Mole,
tortillas, sopa and of course Mexican music or a
Marichi band, then we would go home and rest and get
ready for the big dance that was usually from 8:00 to
12:00 with a full band. Most wedding's I've attended
have nearly 5 to 15 people in the wedding (Catholic
weddings). Just imagine if back then they had that
many people and we were making notations of all those
names or catching a glimpse of our ancestors in huge
weddings. I don't know when the traditions changed
regarding customs and food. If anyone would like to
share info regarding; Wedding Traditions customs/food,
I'm always curious what others experienced in other
towns.

I'm sure everyone remembers having Chicken & Mole at
wedding celebrations...when did this tradition start?

Carol

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Ghengis Khan's 16 million Descendants

Knowing of my interest in genealogy and genetics a friend just sent me a link to this article which is very interesting.

From damninteresting.com
A Big Footprint on the Steppe

Posted by Cynthia Wood on March 5th, 2006 at 8:27 pm

The Y-chromosome is one that geneticists love to study. Because it is passed on from father to son with no matching chromosome to confuse the issue it’s possible to study lines of descent in a much more direct way than is usually possible. Mitochondrial DNA, another favorite for study, provides a similar line of descent for women. In both cases since the inheritance is direct and unadulterated, it makes certain kinds of studies much easier (or even possible). The headlines from a decade ago about locating “Eve”, the earliest common mother of humankind, stemmed from studies of mitochondrial DNA.

Recently geneticists studying the Y-chromosome in Asiatic populations came upon an interesting result. Approximately 8% of the male population in large portions of Mongolia and the surrounding areas has the same Y-chromosome, indicating a shared common ancestor. The number works out to approximately sixteen million direct male descendants all sharing one common ancestor – but who is he?

Random mutations, neutral in effect, happen at a fairly consistent rate over time and they can be used much like a clock. This allowed the researchers looking across this population to work out an approximate time frame. They concluded that the lineage of this Y-chromosome converged at around 1,000 years ago – near the time of the first millennium.

The time frame eliminated the first candidate, Genghis Khan, who was born in 1162 – or did it? The researchers thought that the originating man might be a male ancestor of the Khan’s, perhaps a great-grandfather.

Certainly the hypothesis is plausible. Genghis Khan regularly sealed the conquest of new lands by taking women from their ruling families into his family. Some he married, some he gave to his relatives– including his sons and brothers– as wives. His eldest son, Tushi, is reported to have had forty sons of his own, and his younger sons were no different. The habit continued on for many generations, with some of his descendants holding power up until the 20th century.

Plausible or not, proving the hypothesis is another matter altogether. The only definitive proof would be to find Genghis Khan's long hidden grave, and to recover some DNA from the Khan himself for genetic matching. In the absence of the grave, less direct support must be found.

The best evidence for the hypothesis so far, comes from outside Mongolia. In all their studies, the geneticists found only one example of this particular genetic lineage outside of the boundaries of the ancient Mongol empire. The Hazaras of Pakistan have a long oral tradition that says they are direct descendants of Genghis Khan. They also share in the lineage so commonly found in Mongolia, with almost a quarter of the Hazaras males having the Y-chromosome being tracked.

Presuming that the genetic hypothesis is correct, just how successful was Genghis Khan at propagating his lineage? After all, the world population has increased dramatically in the last thousand years, so you would expect most of the people who lived a thousand years ago to have numerous descendants. Following a strict mathematical progression, if every person who lived in the times of the Mongolian Empire had been equally successful, you would expect each man to have twenty direct male descendants. Compared to the 16 million attributed to Genghis Khan, this would make him approximately 800,000 times more successful.

Another question that arises with this data is: are there any others? So far this study is the only one of its kind. Will future studies show other historic men who have been as dramatically successful in spreading their genes? Possibly, but not necessarily. In order to achieve this kind of spread, not only does the originator of the lineage need to have a lot of male progeny, but they must be widespread geographically, and they must continue the trend for a number of generations. In Europe, there is no tradition of harems to allow for the astounding numbers of children, while in Africa, the tribal organization of a thousand years ago would make the required geographical spreading difficult. The most likely area to find another widespread lineage would be among the early Muslims. There the tradition of multiple wives had been long established, and remains today in many Middle Eastern countries, while the many trade routes, and the expansion of empires would allow for the geographical spreading.

Regardless of the results, it is interesting to see such an enormous genetic footprint still visible, the invisible legacy of a man who may just be the most successful patriarch in history.

food and music

Oh, boy, Joseph, I should have thought of format. These
were originally on reel to reel, now on cassette. I
believe I have someone, however, who can get it to MP3
format for me. I'll email you offlist when I've got it and
can tell you the size.

These are songs sung a capella by the two ladies. I'll
have to listen again, but I believe they were songs they
sang with the family on the rancho. Not a band at all.

The interview was at some point copyright someone, but I'm
not certain if it was the woman who made it or the Carmel
Valley Historical Society. It was the ex-president of the
Society who gave me a copy. Given that this is
essentially for educational purposes, I would think
broadcasting a portion of it to this limited group would
not be a problem as long as you credit both. I would not
hesitate to use it in my classroom.
Kim

if it is okay to use them on the Nuestra Familia Unida
podcast let me know otherwise send me the mp3's and I'll
host them so the group can listen to them. how many bites
are they each? if not too big put them individually into
an email as an attachment in mp3 and send them to me.
thanks,
joseph
ps: are they music they made or from some band back then?

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Who's who on Nuestros Ranchos

Will there be a Who's who component on Nuestros Ranchos like there is
on Yahoo Ranchos Group? Or another way to search who elso is
reaearching same/similar surnames?
Just wondering. Thanks for all of your work in setting up the new
website - still trying to learn how to get around.

Natalie Coleman in VA

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NARA Hispanic Genealogy Conference

I called the NARA Public Affairs office this morning to inquire about
whether there would be a Hispanic Genealogy Conference this year, as I
did not see one on the calendar. There is NOT one scheduled - SO FAR
for this year, but there is a remote possiblity of one being added. As
for 2007, they haven't begun to plan that far in advance. I will try to
keep my eyes open for announcements on the NARA site. Maybe SOMOS
PRIMOS will have something in the future (that is where I first saw the
announcement for last year's conference).

Natalie Coleman in VA

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Could use some menudo 'bout now.

Hi, all,

I just drove home from the FHC in a flurry of snowflakes. The neighborhood looks like a Christmas card what with snow all over the evergreens and lawns, and it is 30 degrees out. Wish I had some menudo to warm me up (really some pork pozole---I don't like tripa). Salmon's on the menu tonight. Maybe I should make some salmon pozole---no that wouldn't do. How's the weather out your way?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA---
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Atolinga, Zacatecas

Yolanda, I was trying to add my files when I noticed
yours......particularly your Bugarin relatives.  So I decided to do a
search on Atolinga, as some of my relatives were born there as well.
 
Here's what I found - before the Spanish officially settled the area, it
appears that there was initially a group of "celtas" who settled there (Irish?)
and later "semitas (Jewish?).  Had you read this before??? I thought it was
fascinating!!!
 
Dice al ingeniero Montañés:
“ Después de la conquista, los españoles
vieron a Tlaltenango como tierra de promisión, colonizándola, dejando en el
monte de Atolinga, como muestra la colonización, extensa zona habitada hasta
nuestros días por moradores de la raza celta pura. Cabe explicar que hasta aquí,
inexplicablemente vinieron semitas, perpetuándose en familias que llevan
apellidos Leyva, Isais, Covarrubias, Castañeda, Bugarín”
 
 source:  http://www.e-mexico.gob.mx/wb2/eMex/eMex_Atolinga_Zacatecas
 
Esperanza

Forms and Tools

Thanks to Kitty Cortez, we now have a collection of forms that you can
use for record extraction.

To view or download these, go to the files section on the new site and
choose reference materials. If you have any forms to add that you think
may be useful, please do so.

Salt Lake City Conference update

My friend, Ruth
Gomez Schirmacher from the FHC in Salt Lake City sent me the following
e-mail:
 
"Right now, we are looking at having some
advanced classes on Oct 13th and our regular conference for the local people and
anyone else on Sat. Oct. 14th.  George would be giving the classes Friday.
So I would imagine that your group would want to be here for the advanced
classes that will not be given on SAt. It will be nice to have this extra day of
classes. If your group has a topic which they want George to teach you can
suggest it. Also remember that as we get closer to the conference we will need
to know what films you need so we will have them at the library. Just inform
your group of the dates and have them block them out and we will have more
information as time goes by. It will be good to see you guys again."
 
The classes she refers
to for Friday, October 13th will be given by George Ryskamp.  This
is a wonderful opportunity to learn from the best! 
 
Please
let me know if there are any specific topics you would like addressed so I can
let them know.  You can also be deciding on which film you will be using
there so it can be ordered prior to your
arrival. 
 
Thanks!
 
Josie in
San Antonio

Anchondo from Chih - Genealogical Societies - lower case L

Yolanda
I am also researching Anchondo from Chih and settled in Texas. Contact me off line since this isn't Ranchos area.
kcortez@starstream.net

Natalie:
I also belong to the Roseville Genealogical Society and like you most of the other members are researching TN, KY, New England, etc. etc. Only 2 other people in our group of 160 members are researching Mexico. Keep you eyes open for the handouts that your speakers have. Some of them are very helpful if tweaked a bit for Mexico. I already tried to set up a folder called Tools and Forms. See you in April.

Kim
I also had a hard time with my password sent to me by e-mail. Finally I realized that it was a lower case L instead of the umber 1 that I was entering. Very hard to tell them apart. Good luck.

Anchondo from Chih - Genealogical Societies - lower case L

Yolanda
I am also researching Anchondo from Chih and settled in Texas. Contact me off line since this isn't Ranchos area.
kcortez@starstream.net

Natalie:
I also belong to the Roseville Genealogical Society and like you most of the other members are researching TN, KY, New England, etc. etc. Only 2 other people in our group of 160 members are researching Mexico. Keep you eyes open for the handouts that your speakers have. Some of them are very helpful if tweaked a bit for Mexico. I already tried to set up a folder called Tools and Forms. See you in April.

Kim
I also had a hard time with my password sent to me by e-mail. Finally I realized that it was a lower case L instead of the umber 1 that I was entering. Very hard to tell them apart. Good luck.

food & music

Hola,
I'm a bit slow here and just catching up on the
celebrations, food, etc conversation. It reminded me that
I have a recording made in the 1950's of my two
great-great aunts. They discuss life on the rancho in
Carmel Valley, California and it includes a song or two.
These ladies would be second generation California-born
BORONDAs, granddaughters of Jose Manuel BORONDA,
supposedly born in Jerez, Zacatecas (or Guadalajara,
depending on which family genealogist you ask). I think
the food is Spanish-California-ish by that time -- beans
cooked until they pop (but not like refried); bull's head
(the cheeks?); a menudo sort of thing, squid, etc. I am
particularly interested in the songs, which are, of course
in Spanish (though the ladies spoke English). I wonder if
they would suggest the family's origins in Mexico. Is
this something I could upload to the site, or would sound
files be too big? The songs are fairly brief if I recall
correctly.
Kim Raine

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Genalogical Societies

First of all - WOW!! 134 messages, and it is only the 8th of March!
So much to read - and all of it very interesting. Thanks.

Now - subject question: What genealogical or historical societies do
you belong to?
Since I live in Fairfax County, Virginia, I belong to the Fairfax
Genealogical Society - a very active group. (However, I think I am
the only member who researches in Mexico - ay, tan solita). Their
website is: http://www.fxgs.org
There were a lot of interesting items in the most recent newsletter -
and I thought I would share a few - especially if you should happen
to be in the area for any of these meetings/gatherings.
March 25, 2006: Fairfax Gen. Soc. Annual Conference (see website for
details).
April 27, 2006: (Monthly meeting) DNA Testing for Genealogists
(speaker: Linda Jonas) - check the website (above)for details.

Next year, 2007, the state of Virginia will celebrate in 500th
anniversary of settlement (Jamestown, 1607). NGS (National
Genealogical Society) will hold its Conference in the States, May 16-
19, 2007, in Richmond, VA. (www.ngsgenealogy.org)

That's all for now - y'all take care.

Natalie in VA

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Letters from Jaime Holcombe

Hi, Arturo,
 
I hope you get this post.  This is the first time for me posting
directly to the new website.
 
I found a post by a Jaime A. Holcombe in Mexico City who says he is the son
of a Jaime Jose Holcombe who spent his life in serach of their ancestors in
Mexico and Europe.  I sent him an e-mail, although the e-mail address is
from 1999. It is still an active address since it has not kicked back to
me.
 
I am very interested in the Escobedos and the Talamantes, since I am a
descendant of some Escobedos in Zacatecas, and my husband is a descendant of
some Talamanteses in Aguascalientes/Jalisco.
 
I think this Jaime is the repository of all his father's works because he
mentions going through his father's things and finding information such as that
they are descended from a Sir John Holcomb who was knighted by Richard
Lionheart.  Wow!
 
Emilie Garcia'
Port Orchard, WA ---

NEXT!: Email me PRIVATELY



Wow what a very very very fortunate person I am to have such wonderful
and talented Moderators, Rosalinda and Arturo, to help me sort this
situation we find ourselves in out. Rosalinda and Arturo have taken the
bull by the horns and leave me little to do. I want to say thanks in
public for their excellent help. Thank you Rosalinda Thank you  Arturo.



It is something new and anytime you have something new it seems
confusing.



Here is what I need and don't worry we have plenty of time. There is no
rush I just want to get moved over because things will be much better
when we are fully transitioned over to the new site.



I want you to all send me a PRIVATE
email  (makas@nc.rr.com) and tell me If you want one of us to help you
move you over to the new site.



If you have a little bit of confidence why not give it a try yourself,
but if you are sure you can't do it then just send me that private
email (makas@nc.rr.com) and I'll make up a list of folks we need to
move over and we'll take them one at a time. It will take awhile but
there is no rush.



When we get close to having everyone over we'll make the final push and
close the Yahoo group down.



Remember email me privately
(makas@nc.rr.com) as I don't want to clog the list up with folks saying:



Move me



Move me



Move me


Attachments

Hi Emilie--
 
A signature file is a small file attached to the bottom of your emails.  It can be personalized with a message, an email address, or other info.  You may have one that automatically is included in your emails; however, the website removes them from the posted messages.
 
I hope this helps.
 
Rosalinda


-----Original Message-----
From: Emilie Garcia
Sent: Mar 7, 2006 8:01 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] [Nuestros Ranchos] Attachments

Oh, Rosalinda,
 
You have such patience.  Now I have another stupid question. What is a signature file?
 
Emilie

----- Original Message -----
From: arturoramos2
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:04 AM
Subject: [ranchos] [Nuestros Ranchos] Attachments


Emilie:

RE:
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/private.cgi/general-nuestrosranchos.org/attachments/20060307/bb8447e0/attachment.html

All that message means is that the attachment that was sent with your message was removed from the message before it was distributed.  The lists do not allow attachments so when there is an attachment (often just a signature file) it is removed.  Your messages seem to be going through fine.  I am getting all of them.
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Are you a good ancestor?

Found this on-line - thought you might enjoy it.

ARE YOU A GOOD ANCESTOR?

A good ancestor keeps certificates including birth and death
certificates;
records including health, military, naturalization, and school;
passports;
newspaper and church notices; awards; photos; art and craft work;
journals;
Bibles; diaries; baby, school and wedding books; heirlooms.

He or she dates correspondence, cares for tombstones, keeps research
organized, writes or tapes the family stories, and supports family
organizations.

A good ancestor dates everything, is sure that full names are
included,
records where material may be found and always sees that at least one
other
copy of important data is somewhere else.

A hundred years from now, will they think you were a good ancestor?

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~families/halsey/humor.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Have a good day, Natalie

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Fw: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

Jose (Macias)

I tried to respond to the automated request to have your Earthlink service send you a request to approve my e-mails to you. I did not address it to the nobody@earthlink.com, it just did that automatically. I am wondering if you got my response to the e-mail you sent me today, March 7 at 6:23 pm.

Emilie

I think I did it

Joseph and Arturo,

I believe I was able to load my intro into the nuestros ranchos which I wasn't able to do last night. I guess I also needed to go mimi like Emilie. Emilie that was cute, I didn't know that anyone else used that term "mimi" that we use to say, "It is time to go to bed".

I do have a question though. I first opened my file that was uploaded I belive from yahooranchos to nuestros ranchos. This appears to be the info from who's who and It says this file can be viewed only by you. Why would you need to have that information there to be viewed only by me when I already know what it is, rather than have it posted to be viewed by everyone in nuestrosranchos? Just thinking out loud here.

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

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Forms - Tools   for Nuestros Ranchos

That is a great idea. You want to take a stab at it and simply create a file folder in the Reference Category called Forms? If you have the files in Word of PDF format, you should be able to easily upload them.

I will check your YahooGroups files to see what would be the simplest way to upload them all.

As far as how far I am from Loudon County, I live right in downtown DC and Loudon County is about 30 miles outside of the city so it is not TOO far. It would be great to meet you.

=====================
From: kitty_cortez
Date: Tue Mar 07 12:08:16 CST 2006
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Forms - Tools for Nuestros Ranchos

Hi Arturo
Can we make a folder where we can set up useful forms for all to use?
Examples:
Timeline Form
Extraction Form for Bapt Document
Extraction Form for Marriage Document
Extraction Form for Death Document
Census Form
Confirmation Form

These are forms that I either get at my local Genealogical Society or I have tweaked them a bit to pertain to Mexican Genealogy.

Also, Rich and I have quite a few files on Ranchos Yahoo site. Is there an easy way to transfer them all over or is there a different format to use where we wouldn't need so many files.

Rich and I will be traveling thru Loudoun County, VA and then 2-3 days in Richmond, VA the middle of April. Are you close by? We would love to meet you. After VA we will be stopping by Joseph Puentes in NC, on our way to Gainesville, GA. We will stay in GA for 2-3 days and then start our long trip back home to Rocklin, CA

Thanks for all you hard work on this new Nuestros Ranchos site. It looks great.

Rich and Kitty Cortez
Rocklin, CA