Nuestros Ranchos Site

Attached is the latest information on the upcoming Hispanic Conference in
Salt Lake City. I went to the www.lds.org website but did NOT find anything
relating
to "Tesoros de Las Americas" as stated in the message. I will check on
Monday with Ms. Jepson about this. I have also checked with the Best
Western Plaza Inn (1-801-521-0130) and they have 4 rooms left at $82.00 each
for 1 to 4 persons per room. Howard Johnson has rooms available for $39.32
($35.00 plus $4.92 tax). Mention "Ranchos Genealogy Group" or ask for
"Mira" when making reservations at Howard Johnson. Their telephone is
1-800-541-7639.

The attachments are in Spanish but I know you can read them! :-) Please
feel free to contact me if you have questions. If you are interested in
attending please send me an e-mail so I may keep up with who is going. I
hope to hear from a lot of you!

Josie in San Antonio
_____

From: Karen Jepson [mailto:JepsonKA@ldschurch.org]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 3:26 PM
To: Josie T. Trevino
Cc: Ruth Schirmacher
Subject: Re: Hispanic Conference in October 2006

Josie,

Ruth Schirmacher forwarded your email to me. I have attached our schedule
for the October 13-14 Hispanic Conference. We believe there will not be
any significant changes. As you may be aware, the Church is sponsoring a
"Tesoros de Las Americas" festival the following weekend and you may find
information on that event at www.lds.org under Calendar or Temple Square
Events. If you are planning a trip, you may want to arrange to stay for
that special evening.

We are very excited to have you participate in our conference. As you are
aware, it is free. We look forward to your group joining us.

Karen Jepson
Community Relations Manager
Family & Church History Department

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disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
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Read more about SLC Hispanic Conference in October 2006

Schedule for Oct 13 Classes on B1 v072706.doc

Forums

This is the schedule for FRIDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2006. This seminar will be by Mr. George R. Ryskamp, Professor of History and Director of Family History and Genealogy at Brigham Young University, and is centering on advanced methodology in genealogical investigations in Spain and Latin America. It will be presented in two parts, from 9:00 am to 12:00 noon and from 2:00 pm to 5:00 pm in the Classroom B-1 at the FHC Library. The course is FREE.

This should be a very interesting presentation!

Josie in San Antonio

_____

Un curso de jornada completa sobre metodologías avanzadas de la investigación genealógica en España y Latinoamérica – 13 de octubre de 2006

El viernes 13 de octubre de 2006, el día antes de la conferencia anual de historia familiar hispaňa, George R. Ryskamp, profesor de historia y director del Centro de Historia Familiar y Genealogía en Brigham Young University, ofrecerá un curso de jornada completa sobre metodologías avanzadas de la investigación genealógica en España y Latinoamérica. Se tratarán registros y técnicas más allá de los comunes. Se enfocarán las presentaciones en cuatro temas:

1. Conceptos de pruebas, desde las directas a las circunstanciales, y su aplicación en el mundo de la genealogía hispánica

2. Los protocolos notariales como fuente principal de parentescos así como fuente para conocer mejor a los antepasados, sus vidas y experiencias.

3. El uso de padrones (censos) y registros similares cuando hay falta de registros parroquiales

4. El encuentro y uso de registros menos conocidos.

El curso se hará en dos partes, de 9:00 a 12:00 horas y de 14:00 a 17:00 horas, en el aula de clases en el piso B‑1 de la Biblioteca de Historia Familiar en Salt Lake City. El curso se ofrece gratuitamente.

Read more about Schedule for Oct 13 Classes on B1 v072706.doc

Hispanic FH 2006 Conf Schedule072706.doc

Forums

I totally forgot that I could not send an attachment!~!!! Must be old age
creeping into my life!!! :-) Here is the schedule for Saturday, October
14, 2006 ..........Sorry for the inconvenience.....Josie

_____

Novena Conferencia Anual de Historia Familiar Hispaña

Sábado 14 de octubre de 2006

Horario de clases

Primer Piso

Sala de computadoras

(Manos en obra)

Primer Piso
Sala de clases

(Genealogía por paises)

2º Piso
Sala de clases
(Capacitación para especialistas de historia familiar)

Piso Subterráneo 1
Salón de clases

(Investigación básica)

Piso Subterráneo 2
Salón de clases
(Investigación intermedia y avanzada)

9:30

Regístrese en el vestíbulo de la Biblioteca de Historia Familiar

10:00

Introducción del

FamilySearch.org

José Sanchez

Genealogía en Centro América

Lynn Turner

Cómo ayudar al principiante a empezar

Leandro Soria

Diccionarios geográficos en Latinoamérica

Ruth Schirmacher

Archivos diocesanos

George Ryskamp

11:00

PAF principiantes

José Sanchez

Genealogía Mexicana en el Internet

Lynn Turner

Cómo usar el Centro de Historia Familiar

Mike Provard

Registros parroquiales

Peggy Ryskamp

Investigación en archivos nacionales de España y Latinoamérica desde los
Estados Unidos

George Ryskamp

12:00

Almuerzo (por su propia cuenta)

1:00

Cómo preparar nombres para TempleReady

José Sanchez

Genealogía en La Argentina

Leandro Soria

Cómo usar el catálogo de la Biblioteca de Historia Familiar (FHLC)

Irene Jiménez

Cómo usar el registro civil

Candela Romero

Archivos municipales

George Ryskamp

2:00

Proyectos para la creación de índices

FCH/Leandro Soria

Genealogía en España

Peggy and George Ryskamp

Cómo superar obstáculos en la búsqueda

Jennifer Kerns

Censos y similares

Liz Miller

Cómo leer la escritura antigua

Ruth Schirmacher

3:00

Consultas de investigación genealógica - B1

Read more about Hispanic FH 2006 Conf Schedule072706.doc

[Genealogia.org.mx] 5844 Hola tomas

Forums

Hola Eddy:

En Verdad no se cual sea la relacion y yo tambien quisiera saber
si existe alguna relacion entre ese Diego y cualquiera de los 3 Juanes
pero no lo se, ojala y alguna otra persona nos pueda ayudar.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

Read more about [Genealogia.org.mx] 5844 Hola tomas

[Genealogia.org.mx] 5815 Diego Delgadillo - Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero

Forums

Hola Eddy:

Si estas en lo cierto, Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza Olivares es hermana
de
Francisca, Catalina se caso con Manuel Gomez aprox. en 1619 en Jalos y de
esta pareja nacio el apellido compuesto de los GOMEZ HURTADO DE MENDOZA
o simplemente GOMEZ DE MENDOZA, y Francisca se caso con el Capitan
Francisco Gutierrez Rubio aproximadamente en 1620, y de esta pareja viene el
GUTIERREZ DE MENDOZA, a los cuales pertenecemos tu y yo, en lo referente
a lo gutierrez, no se si en tu genealogia tambien tengas el Gómez Hurtado de

Mendoza, ademas de Catallina y Francisca, tengo registradas otras 2
hermanas,
las 2 llamadas Isabel, al parecer la primera fallecio y mas tarde se le
puso el
misnmo nombre a otra hija, y un hermano Bernabe de Olivares registrado el
18 de Junio de 1604 en el Sagrario Metropolitano de esta mi ciudad de
GUadalajara,
y que al parecer murio infante sin descendencia, no se si alguien tiene mas
datos al
respecto.
La Otra Hermana Isabel se caso con Gonzalo Ramirez de Arellano y de
esa
pareja nacio el apellido Ramirez de Mendoza.
Ya estube investigando en el IGI sobre tu genealogia, a ver si te la
pongo a continuacion a ver si ya tienes estos datos, mejor te lo exporto en
Gedcom y lo revisas
a ver si ya tenias lo que saque del IGI, con respecto al hermosillo que me
pedias los
datos son:
Si te refieres a Juan de Alba, casado con Antonia Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza
Gutierrez de Hermosillo, los padres de Antonia son: Manuel Gomez Hurtado de
Mendoza y Torres Valdivia y Francisca Gutierrez Hermosillo y Lomelin, los
padres de Francisca son Francisco Gutierrez Hermosillo y Juana Lomelin
Benavides, los padres de Francisco son: Miguel Gutierrez Rubio y Leonor de
Hermosillo, los padres
de Leonor son: Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Maria Muñoz y hasta alli
tengo, alguien tendra mas que me pudiera ayudar?.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

El día 17/08/06, gutiherre escribió:
>
>
> hola tomas revisando tu genealogia me encontre con una persona que
> aparese en ocaciones repetidas en tu arbol "Catalina
> Hurtado de Mendoza Olivares. " de la cual tengo una duda y
> quisiera hacertela saver ¿es hermana de "Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza
> Olivares" ? ella nacio al rededor del año 1599 en Jalostotitlán,
> Jalisco, México y que tiene como padres a:
> Rodrigo Cristóbal Olivares y María Hurtado de Mendoza (padres de
> María Hurtado de Mendoza: Toribio Hernández de Arellano e Isabel
> Hurtado de Mendoza)
>
> Bueno espero tu respuesta
>
> ATTE: Eddy Gutiérrez Hermosillo
>
>
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> * Recibes este mensaje porque estás suscrito al Grupo de Google:
> "Genealogía de México".
> * Nuestra pagina web oficial la encuentras en http://www.genealogia.org.mx
> * Si quieres publicar en este grupo escribe a:
> Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
> (Se prefiere que no incluyas todo el email al que respondes).
> * Para anular tu suscripción a este grupo envía un email a:
> Genealogia-Mexico-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> * Modifica tus preferencias en
> http://groups.google.com.mx/group/Genealogia-Mexico
>
> Los miembros de la Sociedad Genealógica del Norte de México se comunican
> gratuitamente entre si usando equipos de Voz sobre IP de
> http://www.tusip.com
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>
>

--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez

Read more about [Genealogia.org.mx] 5815 Diego Delgadillo - Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero

Films/ Villanueva, Zacatecas

Forums

I found an ancestor on the IGI with a reference to Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico. In checking the "films," on ranchos I found the Batch Number and Film listed in the Villanueva, Zacatecas section, with the following....

Baptism (Malpaso) 1861-1869 1094628 C605391
Baptisms (Malpaso) 1764-1846 1092946 C601071
Baptisms (Malpaso) 1796-1813 1092949 C601073
Baptisms (Malpaso) 1846-1872 1092947 C601072

Will someone please explain what (Malpaso) means, it's not listed in my Spanish Dictionary. Are these four films in poor condition and difficult to read?

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

Read more about Films/ Villanueva, Zacatecas

The latest info I have on General Trinidad Rodriguez

Forums

Mr. Alderete,

I came across your fascinating genealogy website while doing some research on your ancestor, Trinidad Rodriguez. I am very interested in sources for additional information about him and especially for any photographs which might exist, for use in a museum exhibit.

I work for the state of South Carolina's military museum, the South Carolina Confederate Relic Room (www.crr.sc.gov) and we are currently preparing an exhibit which will focus on our soldiers' service in WWI. Before going to Europe, South Carolina soldiers travelled to Texas and served in the "Punitive Expedition" under General Pershing, and in the course of that expedition a South Carolina officer encountered a Texas Ranger (J.M. Fox) who claimed to have shot and killed Trinidad Rodriguez, on or about September 8, 1916. I'd like to find our more about that incident and have contacted the Texas Rangers archives hoping to learn more.

I will be happy to share what I learn if you are interested, and again, I'm eager to find a quality photo of Rodriguez for use in our upcoming exhibit, as well as any stories the family may have about the circumstances of his death.

Sincerely,
Joe Long
Curator of History
SC Confederate Relic Room and Museum
Columbia, South Carolina

(803) 737-8098

Read more about The latest info I have on General Trinidad Rodriguez

Research Reminder

Forums

Just a reminder that when conducting genealogy research once the resource Familysearch.org has been exhausted it's time to order films in the area where one believes the families are from.

Rose Hardy
Fresno, CA

Read more about Research Reminder

MAP OF RANCHOS EN JALISCO

Forums

I am desperately searching a RANCHO en JALISCO on a map that would actually show on the map. But I have unsuccessfully looking for on the internet. The rancho is called "EL PAPELOTE" I heard it is just north of San Julian. Does anyone have any suggestions on where I can obtain this information. This would be very much appreciated.

Gracias,
Nelida Vazquez Estrada

Read more about MAP OF RANCHOS EN JALISCO

Ayuda

Forums

Anteriormente pedi ayuda con lo siguiente pero solo lo hice en ingles, disculpas.
ya e recivido algunas respuestas mas sigo un poco confusa.

en unas actas de nacimiento y bautizo se ve los terminos
Hijo ligitimo - hijo natural

yo tenia entendido que un hijo natural fue un hijo nacido a una madre soltera? mas en algunas actas se ve el nombre del nacido con el termino hijo natural de y los nombres de los padres, al igual se ve hijo ligitimo y nombre de los padres.

cual sera la diferencia.

Letty

Read more about Ayuda

research Digest, Vol 7, Issue 14

Forums

Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.

Nina

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:37:47 -0500
From: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction from Nina Jayme Fantl
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID: <44E0DF1B.6000507@nc.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

where in Aguascalientes?

joseph

Nina Fantl wrote:

>Saludos,
> Busco informacion sobre mis antepasados de Aguascalientes, principalmente los miembros de la familia Jayme/Xaime.
> Ya he utilizado con buen exito la biblioteca de los Mormonas pero me falta mucha informacion.
> Tengo un poco de informacion sobre mi bisabuelo BUENAVENTURA JAYME (tambien se conoce come VENTURA XAIME), nacido en el siglo XVII, casado con Micaela Munoz. Me gusta enterarme de sus parientes y origen.
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> I am trying to find information about my ancestors from Aguascalientes, mainly the Jayme/Xaime family.
> I have already exhaustively searched the Family History data base on the Mormon database.
>
> My earliest ancestor that I have been able to find is Buenaventura Jayme (aka Ventura Xaime). His wife was Micaela Munoz. They were born in the 1700's.
>
> I am thinking that my Jayme ancestors came from Uxue, Navarro, Spain.
>
> I am also trying to find out information about the following places in Aguascalientes:
> Rancho San Guillermo
> Hacienda Nueva
> Rancho de las Trofas en El Llano
> San Antonio
> San Jose, El Calvillo
>
> Other surnames in my tree in Aguascalientes are:
> DELGADO, MACIAS, ESPARZA, LOPEZ, ESCOBAR, De LOERA
>
> My great grandfather was Emiliano Jayme born in Rancho San Guillermo on August 8, 1857.
>
> Thanks,
> Nina Jayme Fantl
>
>
>
>Nina J. Fantl, Esq.
>Town Lake Building
>512 East Riverside Drive, Suite 206A
>Austin, Texas 78704
>(512)476-9950
>
>Licensed in Texas and D.C.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Read more about research Digest, Vol 7, Issue 14

Introduction from Nina Jayme Fantl

Forums

Saludos,
Busco informacion sobre mis antepasados de Aguascalientes, principalmente los miembros de la familia Jayme/Xaime.
Ya he utilizado con buen exito la biblioteca de los Mormonas pero me falta mucha informacion.
Tengo un poco de informacion sobre mi bisabuelo BUENAVENTURA JAYME (tambien se conoce come VENTURA XAIME), nacido en el siglo XVII, casado con Micaela Munoz. Me gusta enterarme de sus parientes y origen.
____________________________________________________________________

I am trying to find information about my ancestors from Aguascalientes, mainly the Jayme/Xaime family.
I have already exhaustively searched the Family History data base on the Mormon database.

My earliest ancestor that I have been able to find is Buenaventura Jayme (aka Ventura Xaime). His wife was Micaela Munoz. They were born in the 1700's.

I am thinking that my Jayme ancestors came from Uxue, Navarro, Spain.

I am also trying to find out information about the following places in Aguascalientes:
Rancho San Guillermo
Hacienda Nueva
Rancho de las Trofas en El Llano
San Antonio
San Jose, El Calvillo

Other surnames in my tree in Aguascalientes are:
DELGADO, MACIAS, ESPARZA, LOPEZ, ESCOBAR, De LOERA

My great grandfather was Emiliano Jayme born in Rancho San Guillermo on August 8, 1857.

Thanks,
Nina Jayme Fantl

Nina J. Fantl, Esq.
Town Lake Building
512 East Riverside Drive, Suite 206A
Austin, Texas 78704
(512)476-9950

Licensed in Texas and D.C.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Read more about Introduction from Nina Jayme Fantl

Sanchez Navarro

Forums

Jose Aguayo,

Don't forget to bring the the Sanchez Navarro book to the next meeting.

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from "Jose Aguayo" : --------------

> Esther:
> I believe that I told you about the following book available from
> Borderlands Books. It has a great deal of information about the Sanchez
> Navarro family. At the back of the book is a family tree spanning about 13
> generations. I would be glad to share it with you at our next meeting --
> September -- since I will be in California and Mexico in August.
>
> A Mexican Family Empire: The Latifundio of the Sanchez Navarros, 1765-1867
> by Charles H. Harris III.
>
> Jose Aguayo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ayalarobles"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 2:15 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
>
>
> >
> > My name is Esther A. Herold. I have been doing genealogin research since
> > 1993. I am researching in many states in Mexico for the following
> > surnames:
> >
> > Coahuila:
> > Ayala, Arredondo, Robles, Trevino, Gutierrez, Zavala, Zamora, Yrigollen,
> > La Mancha, Ybarra, Elizondo, Gonzalez, Barrera, Rodriguez, Flores de
> > Valdez, Ssanchez Navarro, Navarro, Arriola, de la Cerda, Rivas, Perales,
> > Pinto, Munguia, Urdinola, Garza, Farias, Hernandez, Montemayor, Del Canto,
> > Flores Abrego, La Mancha, Lobo GUerrero
> >
> > Zecatecas: Zavala, Sepulveda, Trevino, Robles, Elizondo, Ybarra, La
> > Mancha, Munguia, Ayala, Velasco, Banuelos, Urdinola, Garza, Farias
> > Del Canto, Zaldivar, Onate, La Mancha,
> >
> > Nuevo Leon:
> > Ayala, Arredondo, Sepulveda, Garza, Villarreal, Arriola, Elizondo, ANcira,
> > Yslas Palacios, Farias, Garcia, Zaldivar, Trevino, Flores, Ramos Arriola,
> > Yslas Palacios, Barrera, Munguia, Cantu, Fernandez,
> > Pinto, Rivas, Los Santos, Casas, Rodriguez Montemayor, Montemayor,
> >
> > San Luis Potosi:
> > Lobo Guerrero, Pinto, Galvez, Acosta, Los Santos, Ramos Arriola, Zaldivar,
> > Melendez
> >
> > Guanajuato:
> > Lobo Guerrero, Acosta,
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>
>

Read more about Sanchez Navarro

Archives of teh Indies

Forums

Joseph,

Would you have theurl for the Archives of the Indies and know how to best utilize it?

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Joseph Puentes : --------------

>
> Who knows what parts of Spain some of you might eventually be researching.
>
> joseph
>
> ========================================
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:31:59 +0200
> From: "ALEJANDRO.DELGADO@telefonica.net"
> Subject: Municipal Archives of Cartagena launches new website
>
> ------=_Part_637_13832593.1154511119043
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> Please, excuse cross-postings
>
> Municipal Archives of Cartagena (Spain) has just launched its new website:
> http://archivo.cartagena.es
>
> Despite in Spanish, comments, critics, suggestions, thoughts, are welcomed, in
> order to improve.
>
>
> TERRA
>
> -->
>
>
> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society
> of American Archivists, www.archivists.org.
> For the terms of participation, please refer to
> http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to listserv@listserv.muohio.edu
> In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
> *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES
> To post a message, send e-mail to archives@listserv.muohio.edu
>
> Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html
>
>
>
>

Read more about Archives of teh Indies

Genealogía de Nochistlán-Book Location: was-Diego Delgadillo (long)

Forums

Now if there only was an index available:(
I already have the one capitulo, but my family might be covered in others.

The San Antonio Library kindly photocopied capitulo 58 for me. I'm sure they would do so again.

Got my copy of Cartas de Indias on an inter library loan today.

Many thanks for bringing this interesitng book to my attention.

---- Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
>
> For those of you that don't have the book but are fortunate enough to be
> close to one of these libraries:
>
>
> Location Library Code
> IN ALLEN CNTY PUB LIBR IMF
> TX EL PASO PUB LIBR TXP
> TX LAREDO PUB LIBR DB$
> TX SAN ANTONIO PUB LIBR SAP
> TX UNIV OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN IXA
> TX UNIV OF TEXAS AT EL PASO TXU
> CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY CUY
> DC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS DLC
> TX DALLAS PUB LIBR IGA
> TX UNIV OF N TEXAS INT
>
> Title: Genealogía de Nochistlán antiguo reino de la Nueva Galicia en
> el siglo XVII según sus archivos parroquiales /
> Author(s): Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías, José Luis.
> Publication: Ciudad Juárez, Mexico : Vázquez,
> Edition: 1. ed.
> Year: 2001
> Description: xx, 475 p. : ill. ; 29 cm.
> Language: Spanish
>
> SUBJECT(S)
> Named Person: Vázquez family.
> Rodríguez family.
> Note(s): Includes index./ Ejemplar no. 171 de 300.
> Class Descriptors: LC: CS110; Dewey: 929.2
> Responsibility: José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías.
> Document Type: Book
> Entry: 20020220
> Update: 20021008
> Accession No: OCLC: 49050417
> Database: WorldCat
>
>
>
> papagaia2 wrote:
>
> >Re: Juana Delgadillo:
> >
> >I do not have the Vazquez y Frias publication, but I do have the "capitulo,"
> >listing. There's a reference to Capitulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de
> >Benavides y Juana Delgadillo. It may help to establish if this Juana
> >Delgadillo was the daughter of Diego and Petronilla. Reference to
> >individuals with the Delgadillo surname can be found in the following
> >"capitulos."
> >Capitulo: 6, 13, 16, 34, 50, 51, 54, 57, 84 and 86.
> >Pat
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Read more about Genealogía de Nochistlán-Book Location: was-Diego Delgadillo (long)

Telling it Like it Is

Forums

Since I still cannot sort out the relationship of my husband's gg-grandfather to the widowed man his mother married long after his and his brothers' births (no father mentioned in the records), I was surprised when looking for my father's ancestors that sometimes the fathers of "hijos naturales" were mentioned (exposed?) in the records even when the father was married to someone else. I kind of suspect that in some cases a woman who had children out of wedlock had been impregnated by a married man and could not marry him until he was "free" ("viudo" after his previous wife died) to be made an honest woman of.

Here are some examples of the "exposed" fathers (from the records of the Tepetongo Church in Zacatecas, circa 1842-1850):

---"hijo natural de Viviana Soriano y por dicho de la pareda es hijo de Juan Roman, casado"---

---"hija natural de Maria Carrillo y de notoriedad publica de Leonardo Garcia"--

---"hijo natural de Maria del Refugio Carrillo y por declaracion de madre de Ramon Soriano, de estado soltero"--

---""hijo natural de Josefa de la Torre y de notoriedad publica de Luis Soriano"---

I had never seen such examples in the thousands of records I have viewed. I really don't understand the term "notoriedad publica"---public notoriety? gossip? rumor? Most records in this film simply stated the child was "hijo natural de" and made no mention of the fathers. In some other films I have seen the term "escrito en el libro secreto" when referring to the fathers' or parents' names. I am left to wonder what caused this lapse in confidentiality in the written record, this "telling it like it is".

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

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map of district of Jerez Zacatecas

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I just posted a picture of a map of the district of Jerez Zacatecas which I got in 2003. Some of the old names have been changed but the information seems good. I posted it in the map section. This map was actually on the back of a T-shirt but it was clear and large enough for my old eyes to read.

Linda in B.C.

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Help on "hijo natural"

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I have learned over the years doing family research is that certain words are used differently in different centuries and locales. For example, people who lived in remote areas without a resident priest didn't wait for one to show in order to "marry". The church did not see any reason to blame people for uniting and having children before seeing a priest for the church ritual. Hence the term "hijo natural" came into use. Once the locale has a resident priest the use of "hijo natural" disappears. I have seen the priests use "hijo ilegitimo" or "hijo bastardo" to identify the child whose parents failed to observe the "rules". I believe it is presumptuous to call a child a bastard if the "hijo natural" label is the result of a priest not being nearby. Some communities went longer than a year without the services of a priest.

The term "hijo legitimo" is usually reserved for those chidren whose parents were married in a church ceremony prior to the childs' birth. One of my ancestors is labeled as "hijo ilicito" and "hijo legitimo" in the same baptism record. The parents were married after the birth in an outlying area. One of my uncles was labeled illegitimate in 1912 New Mexico because his parents married civilly before marrying in a church ceremony.

As for the term "expuesto" (exposed in English), I have seen it used to cover many situations. One ancestor "found" a child "expuesto" in his home. His only daughter got married two years later and the child was raised by her parents. Another ancestor (El Passo del Norte) found a child "expuesto" alongside an irrigation canal. Priests found children on their doorsteps and window sills. In 1870's Aguas Calientes, Ags. I found a record of a priest who answered a knock on his door late one night. A woman thrust a child in his arms and ran away. When he looked at the bundle in his arms he saw the baby covered in blood. The umbilical cord had been cut too short. The child died in his arms that night.

Words are only sounds but they can hurt. It is best, I believe, to observe and record. Using judgemental language to "translate" from Spanish to English is not very helpful. I think we all have a lot to learn about the past.

My apologies if I rambled.

David in Albany, CA

David P. Delgado

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I just tried to add an article about Isabel de Moctezuma's Will

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I still don't see your article in the file section. Que pasa?

---- alfonsogonzalezg wrote:
>
I've just tried to upload an article about Isabel de Moctezuma's Will. I guess it's very interesting, but it doesn't appear now in the Files Section. Did I do something wrong?

In the article mentions that Juan de Altamirano took care of Leonor Cortez Moctezuma and some other interesting facts.

Alfonso González

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Marionicia tries to activate in the group

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Hola a todos, gracias por darme la bienvenida al grupo de nuevo.

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!? La mejor conexión a Internet y 2GB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx

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Hijo Legitimo/Hijo Natural

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I too have a case that has me wondering just what is Hijo Legitimo vs Hijo Natural:

My husband's great-great grandfather Ysac Cervantes gave as his father's name Encarnacion Cervantes in the baptism records of all his children and in his marriage record. This made it extremely difficult for me to find Ysac and Encarnacion. After backtracking and some help from Arturo, I discovered that the Cervantes name came from Ysac's mother Dorotea Cervantes who did not marry Encarnacion Talamantes until after Ysac's birth and that of his two brothers. Encarnacion and Dorotea were not married until July 10, 1839, three years after the birth of Ysac and six years after the birth of Ysac's brother Sotero. The Talamantes I believe were part Indian from Tlaltenango, and the Cerbantes' were espanoles from Encarnacion de Diaz.

I found Ysac's birth record for June 4, 1836 in "Hijos Legitimos" for La Encarnacion Church, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. In the margin the record reads: "h. lego.", yet in the body of the record it reads "bautise solamente---Jose Ysac de dos dias nacido en esta Villa h. n. de Dorotea Cerbantes. A. M. Anto. Cerbantes y Juliana Rovalcaba----. The record for Sotero reads the same, "h. lego." in the margin, and "h. n." in the body of the record for April 24, 1833. No father or paternal grandparents are listed in either record.

How could a child be listed as both "h. lego." and "h. n." in the same record in a book that is for "hijos legitimos"? Why would Ysac change his father's/stepfather's name from Talamantes to Cervantes for the records?

Can anyone shed light on this?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

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Thank you

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Thanks to everyone for all of the great definitions given when I asked for "Help-Ayuda"
this is what I learned.

Hijo espurio: hijo ilegítimo de padre desconocido (Bastardo) unknown father
Hijo ilegítimo: hijo de padres no casados entre sí, (i.e an affair)
Hijo natural: hijo de padres no casados que podían casarse al momento de
tenerlo.(born out of wedlock)
Hijos de la Iglesia: Fathered by Clergy
"Calzon Flojo" "loose knickers" = women who gave it up without any ties (lol)

to be continued.................Letty

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Mexican Marriage Traditions

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_http://www.infobayarea.com/articles/mexicanwedding.htm_
(http://www.infobayarea.com/articles/mexicanwedding.htm)

This is an interesting article about the meaning and survival of some of our
Mexican wedding traditions. The only thing that I disagree with is the
"lasso" - I heard that the indigenous had used flowers to encircle the couple,
and this was substituted with the "lasso - rosario" with the Spanish influence.
Who knows - but it is interesting nevertheless!

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[Fwd: 2006-08-11 14:30 (Mw 5.9) MICHOACAN, MEXICO 18.6 -100.9]

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