Hola Everybody, I told that Diego Padilla Davila 's (son of Lorenzo Padilla Davila y Machicao and Mariana Temino de Velasco) WIFE -Ana de La Mota y Vera Parents were Jewish converts .I thought it stated in the book of Mariano Gonzalez Leal 's book Retonos de Nueva Espana. Any body have knowledge of this info.
MUCHISIMAS GRACIAS
POR TU TIEMPO Y TU VALIOSA INFORMACION, ES MUY INTERESANTE, TODO LO QUE HAS ENVIADO.
POR CIERTO TE LLAMAS COMO MI PAPA......GUILLERMO.
ESTAMOS EN CONTACTO Y ESTOY A TUS ORDENES, ATTE. LUPITA GONZALEZ
Gracias por tus comentarios. Encantado de poder ayudarte. Te mando copia de un mensaje que te mandé cuando entraste al grupo. Creo que no lo recibiste porque le dejé el mismo título "PRESENTACION" que tu le habías puesto. En fin, te lo mando de nuevo por si te sirve de algo. Saludos, Bill
"Hola Lupita. Bienvenida al grupo. Me alegra saber que ya tienes un año de estudiar tu genealogía y que has logrado avanzar bastante. Comparto contigo algunos de los apellidos que mencionaste, y creo que en algún momento dado podremos compartir alguna información genealógica. Aunque yo soy originario de Guatemala y mis raices en su mayoría están en Centroamérica, Estados Unidos, Alemania y otros países, tengo también raices muy profundas en México. Empezé a estudiar mi genealogía hace algunos años y he logrado saber quienes fueron mis ancestros desde la independencia y a través del virreinato, hasta llegar a España y los tiempos anteriores al descubrimiento de América. Si tienes unos minutos, te contaré como encontré a mi ancestros de Aguascalientes, Zacatecas y los Altos de Jalisco, porque creo que esto podría servirte como orientación.
Empezé con mi abuelo, Guillermo Strecker Frías, hijo menor de Wilhelm L. Strecker y de Josefa Frías Esparza. Mi bisabuela era mexicana. María Josefa, a quien cariñosamente llamaban Pepa, nació en Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes, el 19 Mar 1848 y falleció en la ciudad de Guatemala el 11 Mar 1921. Josefa era hija de Antonio Frías Jaso y Refugio Ruiz de Esparza. Poco a poco he ido hilando la historia de mis antepasados. Al principio fue fácil, ya que mi madre me había contado mucho acerca de sus abuelos. Tengo muchas fotografías de ellos y de sus hijas Florencia, Beatriz y Berta Strecker Frías, hermanas de Guillermo. Las tres nacieron en Tepic (Nayarit) en 1871, 1872 y 1876 respectivamente. Mi bisabuelo trasladó a su familia a Guatemala por el año de 1879, cuando fue llamado por el gobierno del general Justo Rufino Barrios para participar en la contrucción del ferrocarril interoceánico. Eran los tiempos del porfiriato en Mexico y de la reforma liberal en Guatemala. Mi bisabuelo, de origen alemán pero educado en los Estados Unidos, era ingeniero civil. La familia Strecker Frías nunca regresó a México. Mi bisabuelo murió pocos años después de llegar a Guatemala de fiebre amarilla, cuando participaba en la contrucción del Canal de Panamá.
Con esa información y algunas cartas que había recibido mi bisabuela de su hermana Virginia a finales del siglo XIX y principios del siglo XX, fui a visitar a mis familiares en México en el año 2002. Luego hize un viaje a Tepic donde busqué información en el Archivo Histórico del Estado de Nayarit y en los Archivos Parroquiales del Sagrario. Lo primero que encontré en esos registros fue el matrimonio de mis bisabuelos, quienes casaron en 1870 en la catedral de Tepic. Aunque mi bisabuelo era Luterano, no tuvo inconveniente en convertirse al catolicismo con tal de casarse con Josefa. En ese tiempo la Iglesia Católica exigía que los extranjeros solicitaran una dispensa llamada de ultramarinos antes de casarse, la cual le fue otorgada en 1870 por la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. En ese tiempo Nayarit era Territorio Militar pero anteriormente había sido Séptimo Cantón de Jalisco. La parroquia dependía de Guadalajara. Ya con esa información visité al Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra, donde logré localizar toda la documentación del proceso matrimonial y de su conversión al catolicismo. Los datos me fueron muy útiles, ya que las entrevistas que sostuvo el párroco con mis bisabuelos son una fuente muy importante para mi genealogía.
De ahí en adelante fui buscando datos en los registros de Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes y otras ciudades donde fui encontrando datos de mis ancestros y de muchísimas familias con las que se entrelazaron a través de los siglos. Por el Ruiz de Esparza me he remontado muchas generaciones hasta llegar al genearca de ese apellido, Lope Ruiz de Esparza. Durante el proceso he ido acumulando una infinidad de datos de los fundadores y primeros pobladores de Aguascalientes, y en general de toda la región de los Altos de Jalisco. He hecho varios viajes a México y pronto estaré visitando la importante y bella ciudad de Aguascalientes. Mi último viaje fué en 2006.
Entre los apellidos que más me interesan están Ruiz de Esparza, Frias Jaso, Romo de Vivar, López de Elizalde, Gabai de Moctezuma, Trillo, Delgado, Escobedo, Guevara, Iñiguez, Ulloa, Martínez de Sotomayor, Alvarado, Escalera, Lozano, etc. etc. Sin embargo, tengo ya mas de 8,200 personas en mi base de datos, casi todos de Aguascalientes, Nochistlán, Mexticacán, Teocaltiche y en general de muchos pueblos y ciudades de los Altos de Jalisco. Mis líneas de Centroamérica, Estados Unidos, Alemania y otros países las llevo separadamente y suman otros tantos miles. Ni para que contarte.
Es todo por hoy, Lupita. Avísame si puedo ayudarte en algo.
Un saludo desde Dallas, Texas U.S.A.
Bill Figueroa"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lupita Gonzalez"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:30 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] PARA BILL FIGUEROA
MUCHISIMAS GRACIAS
POR TU TIEMPO Y TU VALIOSA INFORMACION, ES MUY INTERESANTE, TODO LO QUE HAS ENVIADO.
POR CIERTO TE LLAMAS COMO MI PAPA......GUILLERMO.
ESTAMOS EN CONTACTO Y ESTOY A TUS ORDENES, ATTE. LUPITA GONZALEZ
HOLA PRIMO
QUE ALEGRIA SABER DE TI, ME SERIA MAS FACIL DECIRTE PORQUE LADO NO EMPARENTAMOS, QUE MENCIONAR TODOS LOS QUE, SI, CLARO QUE SI ACEPTO TU APOYO, Y DE IGUAL MANERA DE MI, PARTE EN LO QUE TE PUEDA APOYAR, NO VISITO LA SAGRADA MITRA CON LA INTENSIDAD QUE QUIERO, PERO CUANDO SOLICITES QUE TE INVESTIGUE ALGO, CON GUSTO HAZMELO SABER, RESPECTO DE MI, TE DIGO QUE ME LLAMO LA ATENCION SOBRE EL APELLIDO MARENTES , EN ESA LINEA NO HE PODIDO AVANZAR, TENGO HASTA ROQUE MARENTES CASADO CON ROSA DE HUERTA, ES ALGO MAS, O LA FECHA DE MATRIMONIO.......SI TIENES FECHAS DE MATRIMONIO QUE INVESTIGAR DE LA REGION DE LOS ALTOS ME AVISAS, PARA BUSCAR INFORMACION, ME ALEGRA TENER OTRO PRIMO, POR VARIAS LINEAS......MUCHAS GRACIAS......TU PRIMA LUPITAour Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of General digest..."> > > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> DAILY DIGEST> ****************************************> > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Reynoso y Mas (Ronald Reynoso)> 2. de
Hola Lupita, gracias por tu disposición a ayudar. En cuanto a la familia Marentes, me dices que tienes hasta Roque Marentes y Rosa de Huerta; pues aprovecho para decirte que los datos que te voy a proporcionar me los pasó un amigo llamado Juan Pablo Álvarez Guedea, y es lo siguiente:
Roque Marentes de Otaduy se cree que nació en Lagos de Moreno, hijo de Pedro Marentes y de Luisa de Otaduy y Avendaño. Rosa María de Huerta y Escalante fue bautizada en Aguascalientes el día 16 de septiembre de 1685, hija de Jerónimo de Huerta y Escalante y de Juana Rentería y Mojica.
El padre de Luisa de Otaduy y Avendaño fue el Capitán Felipe de Otaduy y Avendaño, quien fuera Alcalde Ordinario de Santa María de los Lagos así como también fue Corregidor de la ciudad de Nuestra Señora de los Zacatecas.
Y pues ahora no tengo algo en específico que pedirte de la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, pero si por ahí encuentras algo de la familia Ramírez de Hermosillo que es la que mas me interesa, te pido me informes de ello. También tengo una familia que no he podido seguirle la línea y me gustaría poder hacerlo, se trata de la familia de la Paz y Castro; tengo a un ancestro llamado Nicolás de la Paz y Castro que tuvo un hijo con Juana Teresa de Vargas, llamado Juan José de la Paz y Castro el cual casó en Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco el día 15 de febrero de 1790 con María Josefa Alvina Ramírez de Mendoza.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¡Actúa tu película favorita y gana fabulosos premios!
http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje
Encontré lo siguiente entre apuntes del Sr. Jaime Holcombe:
On the Marentes Otaduy y Avendaño clan: A marriage information record in
Aguascalientes on 26 Nov 1708 informs they were from Cuta, de los Reinos de
Castilla. The bride to be, Isabel de Otaduy y Avendaño, was the daughter of
General Felipe de Otaduy y Avendaño and Catalina Manuela del Baño y de la
Cueva. The last couple was the maternal grandparents of Captain Roque
Marentes Otaduí y Avendaño.
The latters spouse, Rosa María de Huerta y Flores was christened in
Aguascalientes 16 Sep 1685, española, age 18 days, a legitimate daughter of
Captain Jerónimo de Huerta y Escalante and Juana Valdés Flores (She appears
as Juana de Rentería y Flores in another daughters christening in 1688).
Jerónimo was the son of Captain Juan de Huerta and María de Quijas y
Escalante. Juan was buried in Aguascalientes 1 Feb 1666. He had made his
will in Mexico City, before the escribano real, Joseph de Haro.
Saludos,
Héctor Félix Aizcorbe
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jorge Luis
Ramírez Gómez
Enviado el: Jueves, 21 de Febrero de 2008 01:45 p.m.
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] A JORGE LUIS RAMIREZ GOMEZ
Hola Lupita, gracias por tu disposición a ayudar. En cuanto a la familia
Marentes, me dices que tienes hasta Roque Marentes y Rosa de Huerta; pues
aprovecho para decirte que los datos que te voy a proporcionar me los pasó
un amigo llamado Juan Pablo Álvarez Guedea, y es lo siguiente:
Roque Marentes de Otaduy se cree que nació en Lagos de Moreno, hijo de Pedro
Marentes y de Luisa de Otaduy y Avendaño. Rosa María de Huerta y Escalante
fue bautizada en Aguascalientes el día 16 de septiembre de 1685, hija de
Jerónimo de Huerta y Escalante y de Juana Rentería y Mojica.
El padre de Luisa de Otaduy y Avendaño fue el Capitán Felipe de Otaduy y
Avendaño, quien fuera Alcalde Ordinario de Santa María de los Lagos así como
también fue Corregidor de la ciudad de Nuestra Señora de los Zacatecas.
Y pues ahora no tengo algo en específico que pedirte de la Sagrada Mitra de
Guadalajara, pero si por ahí encuentras algo de la familia Ramírez de
Hermosillo que es la que mas me interesa, te pido me informes de ello.
También tengo una familia que no he podido seguirle la línea y me gustaría
poder hacerlo, se trata de la familia de la Paz y Castro; tengo a un
ancestro llamado Nicolás de la Paz y Castro que tuvo un hijo con Juana
Teresa de Vargas, llamado Juan José de la Paz y Castro el cual casó en
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco el día 15 de febrero de 1790 con María Josefa
Alvina Ramírez de Mendoza.Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¡Actúa tu película favorita y gana fabulosos premios!
http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje
Muchas Gracias Héctor por tu gran aportación, sobre todo por que no tengo muchas fechas en esta familia, lo cual me da datos muy importantes.
Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Participa en nanometrajes y gana grandes premios
http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje
Con mucho gusto.
Saludos.
Héctor
-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jorge Luis
Ramírez Gómez
Enviado el: Jueves, 21 de Febrero de 2008 06:09 p.m.
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] A JORGE LUIS RAMIREZ GOMEZ
Muchas Gracias Héctor por tu gran aportación, sobre todo por que no tengo
muchas fechas en esta familia, lo cual me da datos muy importantes.
Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Participa en nanometrajes y gana grandes premios
http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje
Hola a todos,
Quería ver si alguien del grupo tiene información acerca del matrimonio
entre Juan Nepomuceno Rodríguez y Marsela de los Dolores Alvarez Tostado y
Maciel. Supongo que ellos se casaron en Jalostotitlán aproximadamente entre
In the last few weeks, I accumulated a lot of new ancestors for my parents ELIAS DE LEON and MARIA CARLOS.
Thanks to you, my Family Tree has reached 12 generations in many of my ancestral branches! There are over 1,200 individuals and almost 400 surnames!
Joseph:
I would love to take a look at what you have discovered over the last few months particularly because the areas and surnames that you are researching overlap to a great extent with mine. Unfortunately I cannot find your files...
I see you have a file folder at: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16492
However, it is empty...
Sorry, I was re-updating them
Jose Carlos de Leon
Daniel,
I'll be glad to share! After all, sharing and consulting with each other
are central reasons for our participating in this forum.
At this time, I'am in the middle of restructuring/re-entering the data that
Ronnie,
My research notes confirm the 6 marriage entries in your message, today.
Also, as you stated, the convoluted relationships that resulted from the
marriages of siblings in one family marrying siblings in another family and
Efraín, Do you mind sharing the records about Isabel Velasco? I really want to get lineage down, so far no luck. I found a Isabel Velasco but this couldnt be her. Maybe a different one. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_01…
Hola Efrain ,I use familytree maker. I am basically a computer illiterate. I really just wing it,for example the PAF from Family Search org ,I don't know what it is or how to use it. I always have to ask someone in my family or friends how to work or the understandings of the computer. Here is a good example of my frustration,I tried myself and also the help of wife to put in the Adobe program so I could read some my e-mail.I couldn't nor could my wife, so now I have to find some one who could help me. I keep on saying I'm going to take a computer class and havenot done it yet. As for Sebastian Ramirez de Mendoza ,he is also my ancestor.
well Primo I await hearing feom you
Tu Primo 1000 veces
Ronnie pariente acasi todos de Los Altos> From: conrique1@earthlink.net> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:02:38 -0800> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reynoso/Conrique mutual linkages with Hurtado de Mendoza lines, and others ...> > Ronnie,> > My research notes confirm the 6 marriage entries in your message, today.> > Also, as you stated, the convoluted relationships that resulted from the> marriages of siblings in one family marrying siblings in another family and> then, descendants of those marriages (third-, second- and sometimes> first-cousins) inter-marrying again (which commonly happened among the> founding Spanish families in Los Altos) can be sometimes difficult to> define. I can keep them starlight using a couple of comprehensive> genealogy software programs that do it for me. I use Legacy Family Tree> from Millennia, in conjunction with PAF from Family Search.org> > What software program(s) do you use?> > As to my linkages to Toribio Herna
ndez the Arellano (and the Hurtado de> Mendoza line): > They derive primarily (with some multiplicities here and elsewhere as noted> above) from Sebastian Ramirez de Mendoza (born about 1608) marrying Maria> Hermosillo about 1633, in Jalostotitlan.> > Sebastian was the son of Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza and Gonzalo Ramirez de> Arellano, who married about 1607 in Jalostotitlan.> > Isabel was the daughter of Rodrigo de Olivares and Maria Hurtado de> Mendoza. They married about 1588 in Lagos de Moreno.> > Maria was the daughter of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano and Isabel Hurtado> de Mendoza (shown repeatedly on the records as Isabel Velasco).> > Isabel and Toribio also had 2 other daughters: > Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza, who married Alvaro Ornelas in Lagos de Moreno on> October 29, 1586; - - - and Marta de Mendoza, who married Juan Sanchez de> Lara on January 6, 1587.> > Sebastian (above) was the Great Grandfather of Dona Maria Juana Inez> Maldonado Lozano (born 2 March 1727 in Sa
n Juan de los Lagos) who married> Don Francisco Conrique, my 6G Grandfather.> > So, as you say, somos primos, ....and I look forward to hearing from you> again !> > Efrain Conrique> San Diego, California> > > > > > [Original Message]> > From: Ronald Reynoso > > To: > > Date: 2/17/2008 1:26:08 PM> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Somos Primos> >> >> > Hola Efrain,Its kind of hard to tell how I tie in with Isabel Hurtado de> Mendoza and Toribio Hernandez de Arellano. I can give you a round about> number, its a mess .> > Isabel and Toribio 2 daughters---> > 1)Maria hurtado de Mendoza Married to Rodrigo Olivares > > 4 daughters -> > a)Isabel Olivares la Menor married to Juan Jimenez> > 2 of this couple children are my ancestors > > > > b) Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza married to Luis Padilla Davila> > 1 child of this couple are my ancestor> > > > c) Catalina de Mendoza married to Manuel Gomez> > 2 of this couple are my ancestors> > >
> d) Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza married to Francisco Gutierrez Rubio> > 2 of this couple are my ancestors plus through their children> > > > 2) Isabel Sanchez de Mendoza married to Alvaro Ornelas> > 1 child of this couple os my ancestor > > > > Efrain ,I'm not counting because I get confused ,I also have more> ancestor hook up via through the children of the people have> mentioned.This is just fraction of the confusion or mess I have in my> backround .There is so much intermarriage in my backround its mind> boggling,so when I sign off saying ---Ronnie Reynoso pariente acasi todos> de Los Altos de Jalisco ---I pretty close .> > I probably related to almost every major Founder of all of the towns in> Los Altos . I would venture to say I'm probably related to almost every> body in Nuestros Ranchos that have ancestors in the Los Altos area. To me> this is kind of freaky/wierd but if it didn't happen this way I would not> have been born ,so I guess I really can't complain for t
he actions of my> ancestors. > > I await your reply > > Ronnie Reynoso pariente acsi todos de Los Altos> > SOMOS PRIMOS> > > > > From: conrique1@earthlink.net> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date:> Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:27:40 -0800> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Somos> Primos> > Ronald,> > I am familiar with Inclan's research and it is well> respected.> > Also, and independent of Inclan's research, I can confirm> through my own> research in my family tree, that Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza> (aka Isabel> Velasco de Mendoza and wife of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano)> was the> daughter of Ana Maria de Cardenas Francisco Hurtado de Mendoza,> Marquez de> Almazan... ... and on and on for many generations.> > Where do> you tie in with this line?> > Efrain Conrique> San Diego, California> > > >> [Original Message]> > From: Ronald Reynoso > > To:> research@nuestrosranchos.org > > Date:> 2/16/2008 12:08:48 PM> > Subject: [Nuestros Rancho
s] Somos Primos> >> >> >> Hola a todos de Nuestros Ranchos. I was browsing at www.somosprimos.com>> went to the search block and put- padilla> > davila. I then scrolled to > Descendents of Lord Pedro Gonzalez de> Mendoza,compiled by John D Inclan. I> appears according to what I read that> I and many if not all of us are> related to all of the people of Mexico> ,Texas,and New Mexico. John Inclans> research touches much of Jalisco> ,Zacatecas ,Aguascalientes ,All the north> eastern states of Mexico> ,Texas,and New Mexico. I was was tripping. If any> one has an e-mail to> John D Inclan I would like to ask him if any of the> Hurtado de Mendoza are> tha same as an in example of Isabel Hurtado de> Mendoza wife of Toribio> Hernandez de Arellano. I was wondering also what> you members opinion of> John Inclan research .> > Ronnie Reynoso > > pariente acasi todos de Los> Altos de Jalisco> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > > Nuestros> Ranchos Research Mailing List> >> > To pos
t, send email to:> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> >> > To change your subscription, log on> to:> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org> > > -- -- -- -- -- --> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To> post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your> subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> >> > To post, send email to:> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
I don't think this ISabel and Isabel Velasco de Mendoza are the same person. Because The velasco one was married to Luis Carillo. Isabel Velasco would have been born ca. 1565, our Isabel should have been born ca.
Thank you for welcoming me to this wonderful group of genealogists, and want to thank personally David Mitchell and his wife Irma Romo Mitchell for recommending me. This is my 11th year of research into the state of Jalisco specifically into Encarcion De Diaz, Aguascalientes and Caqistle from which my Romo (De Vivar) lineage comes from, so my goal is to link my roots from Mexico to Spain.
Well, this is definitely good to know. I didn't know all of this before,
the origins of these two names, San Juan de los Lagos and Lagos de Moreno.
So, that means, my ancestors are definitely from Lagos de Moreno, before
Hey who wants to work with me to contact the folks that are organizing this conference? I'd love to contact them and ask that they record the audio of the presentations so that those in other parts of the world that have interest in the content can also appreciate the good information. If you want to help me translate a request I'd be willing to do the rest.
Joseph,
I've already send you an e-mail last week. Just tell me what to do and I´ll be glad to. Unfortunatelly is not possible for me to go to the conference.
Best Rgds,
Juan José Ramírez Ibarra
San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco
Joseph,
Here is Miguel Angel's contact info:
Miguel Ángel Muñoz Borrego.
Tel.: (844) 4903016
e-mail.:munozborrego@lycos.com
He is a great person to work with and he does speak English. You can
send your request in either English or Spanish and he will understand.
Josie Trevino-Trevino
On Feb 10, 2008, at 8:24 AM, makas_nc wrote:
>
> Hey who wants to work with me to contact the folks that are
> organizing this conference? I'd love to contact them and ask that
> they record the audio of the presentations so that those in other
> parts of the world that have interest in the content can also
> appreciate the good information. If you want to help me translate a
> request I'd be willing to do the rest.
>
> thanks,
>
> joseph
>
Sometimes, in my research, when it says where a person is from, it will just
say "Lagos." Do they mean San Juan de los Lagos, or Lagos de Moreno? I am
trying to figure out which direction to head for my ancestral research and
Lagos de Moreno, definetely.
When it comes to San Juande los Lagos, its always shown as San Juan (without de los Lagos most of times) even when belonged to the villa of jalostotitlán.
San Juan Bautista Mezquititlán was the first name of the village and it was changed to "de los Lagos" because it belonged to the Canton de Lagos.
Definitivamente se refiere a Lagos de Moreno.
Toda la informacion de San Juan de los Lagos siempre es mostrada como San Juan (casi siempre sin "de los lagos") aún cuando pertenecía a Jalostotitlán.
Recordemos que en sus inicios se llamaba Juan Bautista Mezquititlán y se cambió a de los Lagos, por pertenecer al cantón de Lagos.
Juan José Ramírez Ibarra
San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco
Im pretty sure the priest meant Lagos de Moreno. In my reasearch they ususally put S. Juan or Sn. Juan de los Lagos. "Lagos" by itself is a nickname for Lagos de Moreno. Just like people from San Juan de los Lagos will call it San Juan to shorten it.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
Definitivamente "Lagos" se refiere a Lagos de Moreno , inicialmente se le conoció como Villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos, cuando la gente se refería a ese lugar , generalmente decía "Lagos", no confundir con San Juan de los Lagos, cuyo lugar inicialmente se llamaba "Región de San Juan Bautista", que después, cambio su nombre alrededor de 1633, por el de " San juan de los Lagos" por ser también poblada en gran cantidad por gente de la Villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos.
A si que definitivamente al decir " originario de Lagos" se refiere a "Villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos" hoy conocida por Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco.
Saludos.
Maybe history and folklore/jokes get mixed up...here is a joke I heard long
time ago about priests and traveling.
Once, when priests traveled from small towns to small towns, he stopped at
this woman's house who always hosted him upon his arrival. She was poor, but
Sorry I'm not sure my messages are going through.
joseph
====================
Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
Sunday, Feb 10, 2008
Dear Joseph--
Yes, I did receive this message. Thanks for all the
work you do.
Sincerely,
PDG
--- Joseph Puentes wrote:
> Sorry I'm not sure my messages are going through.
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace
> Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American
> History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and
> Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>
>
si, recibi su mensaje
> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:59:40 -0500
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] TEST
>
> Sorry I'm not sure my messages are going through.
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>
>
Joseph,
Another confirmation of transmission/receipt of your message
Efrain
> [Original Message]
> From: Joseph Puentes
> To:
> Date: 2/10/2008 5:59:37 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] TEST
>
> Sorry I'm not sure my messages are going through.
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>
>
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: larry kirkpatrick
Subject: Conference in Ramos Arizpe
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:40:03 +0000
Wow Esther, this sounds very enticing, are you going? or is anyone else in Ranchos interested in attending this conference? If someone from Ranchos would be attending I might consider it?
Alicia Avelar, Olmos, Aguayo, Ruiz, Esparza, Garcia, Muñoz, Jauregui, Olazaba, Duran,Ortega, Gomez, Macias, Ruiz de Esparza, Valades, Rubalcava, aka (Mrs. Alicia Carrillo)
----- Original Message ----
From: "eaherold@att.net"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2008 6:59:48 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Conference in Ramos Arizpe
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: larry kirkpatrick
Subject: Conference in Ramos Arizpe
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:40:03 +0000
GOBIERNO DEL ESTADO DE COAHUILA
SECRETARIA DE GOBIERNO
ARCHIVO GENERAL DEL ESTADO
TERCERA CONFERENCIA BINACIONAL DE HISTORIA FAMILIAR
THIRD BINATIONAL FAMILY HISTORY CONFERENCE
Viernes 7 de marzo de 2008
8:00 A.M. a 18:30 P.M.
El Archivo General del Estado estará atendiendo a los investigadores de historia familiar
18:30 hrs. Inscripciones. Sede: American Hotel-Express. Ramos Arizpe
19:30 hrs. Ceremonia de Inauguración a cargo del
Prof. Humberto Moreira Valdés
Gobernador Constitucional del Estado de Coahuila
Conferencia Magistral
Familias de Zacatecas, pobladoras del noreste
Dr. José Enciso Contreras
Catedrático de la Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Cronista de la ciudad de Zacatecas
Miembro de número del Colegio Coahuilense de Investigaciones Históricas
Concierto
Guitarras de Cámara
Universidad Autónoma de Coahuila
Vino de Honor
Sábado 8 de Marzo de 2008
9:00 Familias endogámicas en Saltillo y los Altos de Jalisco
Mtra. Martha Durón de Narro
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Aguascalientes, México
10:00 La familia CUELLAR en el noreste mexicano
Arturo Cuellar.
Hispanic Organization Genealogical and Research de Dallas
11:00 Los BAEZ de BENAVIDES en Nuevo León y Coahuila
Lic. Luis Benavides Caicedo.
Chihuahua, Chih. México
.
12:00 Los descendientes de la familia MOCTEZUMA en Nueva España y Europa
Luis López Elizondo.
Múzquiz, Coahuila, México.
13:00 Tiempo Libre
15:00 La familia FLORES en Saltillo, siglos XIX y XX.
Lic. Víctor Antero Flores Zertuche
Radio Gente. Gobierno del Estado de Coahuila.
Saltillo, Coah.
Primeros pobladores de la Villa de San Agustín de Laredo
16:00 Panel.
Villa San Agustín de Laredo Genealogical Society
Laredo, Tx.
La familia ZAMBRANO en el Nuevo Reyno de León.
Mtro. Daniel Zambrano Villarreal.
Sociedad Genealógica de Nuevo León.
Monterrey, N.L.
17:00 La Familia MEDINA VIDAURRI en tres puntos del noreste mexicano: Villaldama, NL, Múzquiz, Coah.y San Antonio, Tx. USA
Ed Mata Medina
Bexareños Genealogical Society.
San Antonio, Tx. USA.
18:00
20:00 Concierto del Grupo Armónico
Cena-convivencia
Entrega de Diplomas
Fotografía general
Domingo 9 de Marzo de 2008
9:00 hrs. TOUR con programa especial, visitando sitios históricos de interés de la región.
Este paseo se terminará a las 13:00 hrs.
Es necesario registrarse con 2 semanas de anticipación,
con Miguel Ángel Muñoz Borrego.
DATOS PRÁCTICOS
Registro e inscripciones:
No hay cuota de inscripción para la Conferencia, es libre.
The register is free.
El costo de la cena-convivencia, el sábado por la noche, se pagará en el momento oportuno según su consumo.
Saturday night you have to pay your own meals.
La sede de la conferencia será American Hotel Express en Ramos Arizpe, Coah. México.
The conference is hosted by American Hotel Express.
Carretera Monterrey Saltillo No.9000. Ramos Arizpe, Coahuila, México.
Tel.: From USA 52-844- 4 38 88 00 Ext 317
Desde la Rep. Mex. 01-844-438 88 00 Ext 317
Solicite el descuento para sus habitaciones como participante de la Conferencia con la Srita. Grace.
Make yor reservations with Miss Grace.
Ask for special rate.
Informes en general:
Miguel Ángel Muñoz Borrego.
Tel.: (844) 4903016
e-mail.:munozborrego@lycos.com
Hi Alicia!
Mickey Garcia and I are going.......we went last year and it was very
rewarding! Marta Duron is an expert on Aguascalientes and the
cronista from Zacacatecas will be a speaker also.........and, of
course Monterrey is only a few miles away.......more research can be
done there! A lot of Nuestros Ranchos members are from the
area.......we would love to meet up with you and anyone else
considering attending......just like we did when we planned the Salt
Lake City conference, remember? -) Give it some thought, ok?
Josie Trevino-Trevin o
On Feb 9, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Wow Esther, this sounds very enticing, are you going? or is anyone
> else in Ranchos interested in attending this conference? If someone
> from Ranchos would be attending I might consider it?
>
> Alicia Avelar, Olmos, Aguayo, Ruiz, Esparza, Garcia, Muñoz,
> Jauregui, Olazaba, Duran,Ortega, Gomez, Macias, Ruiz de Esparza,
> Valades, Rubalcava, aka (Mrs. Alicia Carrillo)
>
>
Josie,
My husband has in his ancestry several Duron from Aguascalientes. Could you ask Marta Duron for her e-mail and address and if she can do look-ups or has family trees, etc? My husband's paternal grandmother was also born in the city of Zacatecas and it would be great to get the cronista's contact information also. I envy your trip. Wish I could go. (Hubby refuses to set foot in MX after our experiences in DF in 1968.)
Thanks,
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Josie T. Trevino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Conference in Ramos Arizpe
Hi Alicia!
Mickey Garcia and I are going.......we went last year and it was very
rewarding! Marta Duron is an expert on Aguascalientes and the
cronista from Zacacatecas will be a speaker also.........and, of
course Monterrey is only a few miles away.......more research can be
done there! A lot of Nuestros Ranchos members are from the
area.......we would love to meet up with you and anyone else
considering attending......just like we did when we planned the Salt
Lake City conference, remember? -) Give it some thought, ok?
>
Hi Emilie!
Marta Duron does not do e-mail or computers..........she is an
amazing woman.......can recall info on families from the top of her
head! Perhaps you can put something down in writing and send it to
me......I will be glad to give it to her. We still have about three
or four weeks before the conference so you could send it to me
privately (josiett3@juno.com) and I will give it to her personally.
I plan to get the cronista's contact info as well since I have my
very elusive Liendo ancestors in Zacateca......they have been hiding
from me for years.......maybe he can help me find them! :-)
Let me assure you that Ramos Arispe, Saltillo and Monterrey are
NOTHING like the DF.......although these cities have grown
tremendously they are still wonderful places to visit and there is so
much history there! I do not hesitate to go there whenever I can and
this conference is a great opportunity to do so.
I do not go to the DF myself.......it is just too big ........ I
enjoy the smaller places where you can enjoy the people, visit the
archivos, the churches and everything we enjoy doing. Mickey and I
always wind up in some cronista's archivos....sometimes even without
trying!! :-) Last year we ended up in a dusty attic full of dusty
documents and I saw one that was about one of my direct ancestors!
It had his signature among other things......I snapped picture after
picture with my digital camera and felt like I had gone to
heaven!! :-) You just never know what you are going to find on
these trips!
Hopefully something will develop and you may end up sitting next to
me at the conference! :-)
Josie
On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
> Josie,
>
> My husband has in his ancestry several Duron from Aguascalientes.
> Could you ask Marta Duron for her e-mail and address and if she can
> do look-ups or has family trees, etc? My husband's paternal
> grandmother was also born in the city of Zacatecas and it would be
> great to get the cronista's contact information also. I envy your
> trip. Wish I could go. (Hubby refuses to set foot in MX after our
> experiences in DF in 1968.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Emilie
I forgot to add that I believe Continental Airlines flies into Ramos
Arispe, Coah.......at least they used to. Ramos Arispe is just
outside Saltillo.....and about an hour's bus ride from Monterrey, N.L.
Josie
On Feb 9, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Wow Esther, this sounds very enticing, are you going? or is anyone
> else in Ranchos interested in attending this conference? If someone
> from Ranchos would be attending I might consider it?
>
> Alicia Avelar, Olmos, Aguayo, Ruiz, Esparza, Garcia, Muñoz,
> Jauregui, Olazaba, Duran,Ortega, Gomez, Macias, Ruiz de Esparza,
> Valades, Rubalcava, aka (Mrs. Alicia Carrillo)
>
>
Is there an airport in Saltillo? or is the cheapest and easiest if there isn't an airport in Ramos Arizpe Monterey?
Alicia
----- Original Message ----
From: Josie T. Trevino
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:37:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Conference in Ramos Arizpe
I forgot to add that I believe Continental Airlines flies into Ramos
Arispe, Coah.......at least they used to. Ramos Arispe is just
outside Saltillo.....and about an hour's bus ride from Monterrey, N.L.
Josie
On Feb 9, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Wow Esther, this sounds very enticing, are you going? or is anyone
> else in Ranchos interested in attending this conference? If someone
> from Ranchos would be attending I might consider it?
>
> Alicia Avelar, Olmos, Aguayo, Ruiz, Esparza, Garcia, Muñoz,
> Jauregui, Olazaba, Duran,Ortega, Gomez, Macias, Ruiz de Esparza,
> Valades, Rubalcava, aka (Mrs. Alicia Carrillo)
>
>
Hello
Saltillo has a small airport. I do not know who has flights maybe
Continental? Of course Monterrey has a large airport. Ramos is an hour or less away
form Monterrey.
Josie and I have been to the other conferences and they are great.
Mickey
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003…
48)
Hi Mickey!
I am not in Houston and did not know you were online!! :-)
Perhaps you can enlighten them more than I can......I think also it
might be cheaper for someone out of state (TX) to fly to SA or
Houston (for example) and then take a Mexican airline directly to
Ramos, Saltillo or Monterrey.....what do you think?
Josie
On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:23 PM, MMG8938@aol.com wrote:
> Hello
>
> Saltillo has a small airport. I do not know who has flights maybe
> Continental? Of course Monterrey has a large airport. Ramos is
> an hour or less away
> form Monterrey.
>
> Josie and I have been to the other conferences and they are great.
>
> Mickey
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?
> NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> 48)
It's official, I'm going to the conference now that I know two Ranchos members, Micky and Josie will be there, I can't wait to meet the two of you, I've heard so much from you and about you (all good) The conference and it's topics appear to be so appropriate for Nuestros Ranchos members.
Josie and Mickey, thanks for the info and the encouragement, hopefully more Ranchos members can attend!!
Regards,
Alicia Carrillo
San Jose, Calif
Hi there Mickey and Joseie ,
I'll be there too . ;-) It'll be great to see you guys again !
Welester
> From: josiett3@satx.rr.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:27:18 -0600> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Conference in Ramos Arizpe> > Hi Mickey!> > I am not in Houston and did not know you were online!! :-) > Perhaps you can enlighten them more than I can......I think also it > might be cheaper for someone out of state (TX) to fly to SA or > Houston (for example) and then take a Mexican airline directly to > Ramos, Saltillo or Monterrey.....what do you think?> > Josie> On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:23 PM, MMG8938@aol.com wrote:> > > Hello> >> > Saltillo has a small airport. I do not know who has flights maybe> > Continental? Of course Monterrey has a large airport. Ramos is > > an hour or less away> > form Monterrey.> >> > Josie and I have been to the other conferences and they are great.> >> > Mickey> >> >> >> >> >> >> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.> > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-gram
my? > > NCID=aolcmp003000000025> > 48)> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> >> > To post, send email to:> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_01…
Hi Welester!
We are looking forward to seeing you also! Can't believe it has
been almost a year already! I appreciate the info you gave us last
year,........anything new this year?
Take care and keep in touch,
Josie
On Feb 10, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Lester Alvarado wrote:
> Hi there Mickey and Joseie ,
>
> I'll be there too . ;-) It'll be great to see you guys again !
>
> Welester
>
>
Hi Josie,
As a matter of fact , Yes , I'll have some new stuff to pass on to you and Mickey . Make sure to bring your memory sticks .
Welester
> From: josiett3@satx.rr.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:06:01 -0600> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Conference in Ramos Arizpe> > Hi Welester!> > We are looking forward to seeing you also! Can't believe it has > been almost a year already! I appreciate the info you gave us last > year,........anything new this year?> > Take care and keep in touch,> > Josie> > On Feb 10, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Lester Alvarado wrote:> > > Hi there Mickey and Joseie ,> >> > I'll be there too . ;-) It'll be great to see you guys again !> >> > Welester> >> >> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_01…
Thanks Welester! Will bring them with us!!! Looking forward to
seeing you guys again! Josie
On Feb 11, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Lester Alvarado wrote:
> Hi Josie,
> As a matter of fact , Yes , I'll have some new stuff to pass on to
> you and Mickey . Make sure to bring your memory sticks .
>
> Welester
>
>
How I envie all you guys that are going, wish I could go.
Mary
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Josie T. Trevino"
>Sent: Feb 11, 2008 11:47 AM
>To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Conference in Ramos Arizpe
>
>Thanks Welester! Will bring them with us!!! Looking forward to
>seeing you guys again! Josie
>
>On Feb 11, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Lester Alvarado wrote:
>
>> Hi Josie,
>> As a matter of fact , Yes , I'll have some new stuff to pass on to
>> you and Mickey . Make sure to bring your memory sticks .
>>
>> Welester
>>
>>
>
Hi,
I am thinking of going if my husband can get the time off. Is it better by air to Ramos Arispe or travel by car from Monterrey airport?
Thanks,
Esther
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from "Josie T. Trevino" : --------------
Hi Esther!
I have not flown into Ramos but I would imagine it would be best to
fly directly there. As far as travel by car from Monterrey airport I
usually take the bus from Monterrey to Saltillo and leave the driving
to them....:-) Sorry I am not much help but perhaps someone from
the area might have a better answer......glad to hear you are
considering going!!!
Josie
On Feb 12, 2008, at 12:51 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking of going if my husband can get the time off. Is it
> better by air to Ramos Arispe or travel by car from Monterrey airport?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Esther
Alicia, I have flown into Monterrey but it has been quite a
while.....a few years......I usually take the bus from San Antonio
and it goes straight to Monterrey or Saltillo.........or sometimes we
drive. Give me a couple of days and I can find out for you. Right
now I am not at home and do not have access to the info I use when I
travel to Mexico. I don't remember where you live......how much time
do you have to travel.....you can e-mail me personally and we can
toss this around if you like! :-)
Josie
On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Is there an airport in Saltillo? or is the cheapest and easiest if
> there isn't an airport in Ramos Arizpe Monterey?
>
> Alicia
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Josie T. Trevino
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:37:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Conference in Ramos Arizpe
>
> I forgot to add that I believe Continental Airlines flies into Ramos
> Arispe, Coah.......at least they used to. Ramos Arispe is just
> outside Saltillo.....and about an hour's bus ride from Monterrey, N.L.
>
> Josie
>
>
>>
>
From: sceleste_m@hotmail.comTo: research@nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: RE: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Family Search Website UpdateDate: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:58:52 -0500
I am very excited! I live in Ottawa, Canada so sometimes I wait 3 months to recieve a film. I CAN'T WAIT!!! Sofia
Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Dear Sophia--
I find it very interesting to hear that you live in
Ottawa. I was born in British Columbia but left there
at the age of two and a half. All my paternal family
history, from the 1830's, is in Ontario, Canada. It
is my husband's side of the family that comes from
Jalisco, Michoacan, and Zacatecas. Do you have any
lines in Ontario? If you do, I can give you some good
websites that will assist in your research.
I am planning a trip to Santa Rita, Jalisco, at Easter
time. That small village is in the Ayotlan cabacera
which used to be called Ayo el Chico. We will be
seeing some of the relatives and will probably make
stops in the neighboring towns and villages of
Atotonilco el Alto and La Barca.
Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez
AKA Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
--- sophia wrote:
>
>
>
>
> From: sceleste_m@hotmail.comTo:
> research@nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: RE: [Nuestros
> Ranchos] New Family Search Website UpdateDate: Sat,
> 12 Jan 2008 16:58:52 -0500
>
>
> I am very excited! I live in Ottawa, Canada so
> sometimes I wait 3 months to recieve a film. I CAN'T
> WAIT!!! Sofia
>
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN
> Messenger
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger!
> Download today it's FREE!
>
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
The reason why I was asking, is that I have been asked, to go to the
conference to man one of the vendor booths. And I am hoping to possibly see
some the ranchos members, while I'm there.
Jonathan
Ramos Arizpe Conference attendees:
Please try to find as much information as you can about the descendents of Moctezuma, specially Petronila de Moctezuma and Martin Navarro, her husband. There are quite a few of us in the group who are interested in her ancestry.
Thank you.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
Hi John!
I am working on something for you on this......just give me a couple
of days and I might have something for you......
Thanks!
Josie
On Feb 11, 2008, at 12:03 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
> To:
> Ramos Arizpe Conference attendees:
>
> Please try to find as much information as you can about the
> descendents of Moctezuma, specially Petronila de Moctezuma and
> Martin Navarro, her husband. There are quite a few of us in the
> group who are interested in her ancestry.
>
> Thank you.
>
> John Gonzalez
> Wildomar, CA.
>
FYI
There were peope living in General Cepeda, Coahuila with that surname at one time.
--
Esther A. Herold
Not sure if this collection will touch the Mexican Indians but here is
some information:
14. After Columbus: Four-Hundred Years of Native American Portraiture
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/explore/?collection=AfterCol…
Hola Joseph,its not your fault,but misinformation.North American is considered Canada , United States and Mexico.Indios de Mexico traveled in and out of present day United States . The media gives 100 % representatuion to the Indians of Canada but not to the Indians of Mexico. I find it wierd and prejuiced.
Ronnie Reynoso ,parientes acasi todos de Los Altos de Jalisco> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:46:32 -0500> From: makas@nc.rr.com> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Ciudad_Juarez@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] North American Indians> > > Not sure if this collection will touch the Mexican Indians but here is > some information:> > 14. After Columbus: Four-Hundred Years of Native American Portraiture> http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/explore/?collection=AfterCol…; > The New York Public Library's early efforts to collect Native American> portraiture were greatly aided by gifts and purchases made by Dr.> Wilberforce Eames and J.P. Morgan. Morgan was a sponsor of Edward S.> Curtis's massive survey of North American Native Americans and Eames was the> Library's bibliographer. This particular digital collection from the Library> brings together some of these early acquisitions, including George Caitlin's> "North American Indian Portfolio" from
1845 and Frederic Allen Williams'> "Photographs of American Indians". In total, this digital collection> includes 369 prints and drawings. Visitors can browse through each portfolio> at their leisure, or they can also elect to search through the entire> collection by title or keyword. [KMG]> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Thank you Joseph,
When I had my mtdna done it came back Native American, in Mexico it was Nahua but they included the other tribes in all the Americas who share my gene pool. Since I'm group A that includes Eleut, Haida, Salish, Zuni, Navajo, Lakota and some others. I enjoy seeing photo's and drawings documenting the people and appreciate you taking the time to share these.
Linda in Everett
Joseph Puentes wrote:
Not sure if this collection will touch the Mexican Indians but here is
some information:
14. After Columbus: Four-Hundred Years of Native American Portraiture
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/explore/?collection=AfterCol…
The New York Public Library's early efforts to collect Native American
portraiture were greatly aided by gifts and purchases made by Dr.
Wilberforce Eames and J.P. Morgan. Morgan was a sponsor of Edward S.
Curtis's massive survey of North American Native Americans and Eames was the
Library's bibliographer. This particular digital collection from the Library
brings together some of these early acquisitions, including George Caitlin's
"North American Indian Portfolio" from 1845 and Frederic Allen Williams'
"Photographs of American Indians". In total, this digital collection
includes 369 prints and drawings. Visitors can browse through each portfolio
at their leisure, or they can also elect to search through the entire
collection by title or keyword. [KMG]
Thanks for the link, Joseph. There weren't any Mexican Indians, but I did find my Tewa from New Mexico.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] North American Indians
Thank you Joseph,
When I had my mtdna done it came back Native American, in Mexico it was Nahua but they included the other tribes in all the Americas who share my gene pool. Since I'm group A that includes Eleut, Haida, Salish, Zuni, Navajo, Lakota and some others. I enjoy seeing photo's and drawings documenting the people and appreciate you taking the time to share these.
Linda in Everett
Joseph Puentes > wrote:
Not sure if this collection will touch the Mexican Indians but here is
some information:
14. After Columbus: Four-Hundred Years of Native American Portraiture
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/explore/?collection=AfterCol…
The New York Public Library's early efforts to collect Native American
portraiture were greatly aided by gifts and purchases made by Dr.
Wilberforce Eames and J.P. Morgan. Morgan was a sponsor of Edward S.
Curtis's massive survey of North American Native Americans and Eames was the
Library's bibliographer. This particular digital collection from the Library
brings together some of these early acquisitions, including George Caitlin's
"North American Indian Portfolio" from 1845 and Frederic Allen Williams'
"Photographs of American Indians". In total, this digital collection
includes 369 prints and drawings. Visitors can browse through each portfolio
at their leisure, or they can also elect to search through the entire
collection by title or keyword. [KMG]
Erlinda,
Was you mtdna tested in Mexico ?
My husband had his yDNA tested by the FamilyTreeDNA Labs in the USA. The results of his 67 marker test placed him the haplogroup of Q3 Native American, and the SNP M3+ ... We have no idea which tribe his deep ancestral roots came from, any suggestion on how to proceed ?
His mtDNA has not been tested.
Pat Silva Corbera
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
> Thank you Joseph,
>
> When I had my mtdna done it came back Native American, in Mexico it was Nahua
> but they included the other tribes in all the Americas who share my gene pool.
> Since I'm group A that includes Eleut, Haida, Salish, Zuni, Navajo, Lakota and
> some others. I enjoy seeing photo's and drawings documenting the people and
> appreciate you taking the time to share these.
>
> Linda in Everett
>
> Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
> Not sure if this collection will touch the Mexican Indians but here is
> some information:
>
> 14. After Columbus: Four-Hundred Years of Native American Portraiture
> http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/explore/?collection=AfterCol…
> hun&col_id=182
>
> The New York Public Library's early efforts to collect Native American
> portraiture were greatly aided by gifts and purchases made by Dr.
> Wilberforce Eames and J.P. Morgan. Morgan was a sponsor of Edward S.
> Curtis's massive survey of North American Native Americans and Eames was the
> Library's bibliographer. This particular digital collection from the Library
> brings together some of these early acquisitions, including George Caitlin's
> "North American Indian Portfolio" from 1845 and Frederic Allen Williams'
> "Photographs of American Indians". In total, this digital collection
> includes 369 prints and drawings. Visitors can browse through each portfolio
> at their leisure, or they can also elect to search through the entire
> collection by title or keyword. [KMG]
>
>
>
I have a question for the members with ties to Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco and Guadalajara. Do any of you have any other information on this record??
JOSE YGNACIO BENITES NAVARRO
12 NOV 1808 Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Sunday, February 10, 2008
Dear Sandra--
Hope the following information will be helpful to you.
Jose Ygnacio (mestizo)
de este Pueblo (Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco)
Baptized 12 Nov 1808
Born 17 days ago to
Father--Juan de Dios BENITES son of
Juana Maria BENITES and Maria Antonia ORTEGA
Mother--Maria Antonia NAVARRO daughter of
Santiago NAVARRO and Ygnacia de LOSA
Padrino--Br. D. Ygnacio Gudino
The above from Microfilm 222,116, pg 193
This Microfilm has an index.
(There were no other BENITES children. There were
other NAVARRO children but I did not check these.
..........................
Some additional information which you might already
have:
The maternal grandparents,
Santiago NAVARRO
son of Juan Manuel NAVARRO and Maria VASQUEZ
&
Ma. Ygnacia de LOZA
daughter of vicente de LOZA and Maria RODRIQUEZ
were married on 4 Nov 1789 in Tepatitlan de Morelos,
Jalisco--see Microfilm #0218,519
Two of their other daughters seem to have been:
Maria Gregoria NAVARRO Loza bap 10 Jul 1791 in
Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jalisco see Microfilm #218,445
Ma. Justa Rufina NAVARRO Loza
bap 6 Aug 1793 in Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jalisco
see Microfilm #218,445.
........................
Marriage Record #1351, pg 43, on Microfilm #218,519
Santiageo NAVARRO, espanol, origin and vecino de
Juntas de Abajo, Jalisco, was the son of
Juan Manuel NAVARRO, dead and Maria VASQUEZ, living
Married 4 Nov 1789 in Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jal. to
Ygnacia de LOZA, espanol of Juchipila, Zacatecas,
then 9 years in el Puchote (Jalisco?), daughter of
Vicente de LOZA living and Maria RODRIGUEZ living.
Padrinos were Rafael MORALES y Maria BECERRA
Testigos were Don Jose Antonio Pena, Don Juan ROMANCO,
y Santiago RODRIGUES.
........................
Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez
--- sandragomezmendoza
wrote:
>
> I have a question for the members with ties to
> Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco and Guadalajara. Do any
> of you have any other information on this record??
>
> JOSE YGNACIO BENITES NAVARRO
> 12 NOV 1808 Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Parents: Juan de Dios Benites and Maria Antonia
> Navarro
>
> He is my 2nd Great Grand Uncle.
>
> Also, Juan de Dios Benites and Maria Antonia Navarro
> seem to have been married in Guadalajara but cannot
> find anything about them. They also had children
> that married in Juchipila, Zac.
>
> THANKS!
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Tengo una pregunta para los miembros con lazos en
> Atotonilco el Alto y Guadalajara. Alguno de ustedes
> tiene informacion adicional de este record??
>
> JOSE YGNACIO BENITES NAVARRO
> 12 NOV 1808 Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Parents: Juan de Dios Benites and Maria Antonia
> Navarro
>
> El es mi segundo tio bisabuelo.
>
> Tambien creo que sus papas, Juan de Dios Benites and
> Maria Antonia Navarro se casaron o eran de
> Guadalajara pero no puedo encontrar informacion de
> ellos. Ellos tambien tuvieron hijos que se casaron
> en Juchipila, Zac.
>
> GRACIAS!
Sunday, January 27, 2008
Dear Sandra--
The majority of my Mexican research has been done in
the Atotonilco el Alto area. I checked my records and
did not have the names you mentioned. I do have many
of the Microfilms of Atotonilco el Alto on Indefinite
Loan at the Bonita Family History Center. I will see
what I can find out for you when I go next Wednesday.
Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez
AKA Patricia Burton
San Diego
--- sandragomezmendoza
wrote:
>
> I have a question for the members with ties to
> Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco and Guadalajara. Do any
> of you have any other information on this record??
>
> JOSE YGNACIO BENITES NAVARRO
> 12 NOV 1808 Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Parents: Juan de Dios Benites and Maria Antonia
> Navarro
>
> He is my 2nd Great Grand Uncle.
>
> Also, Juan de Dios Benites and Maria Antonia Navarro
> seem to have been married in Guadalajara but cannot
> find anything about them. They also had children
> that married in Juchipila, Zac.
>
> THANKS!
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Tengo una pregunta para los miembros con lazos en
> Atotonilco el Alto y Guadalajara. Alguno de ustedes
> tiene informacion adicional de este record??
>
> JOSE YGNACIO BENITES NAVARRO
> 12 NOV 1808 Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Parents: Juan de Dios Benites and Maria Antonia
> Navarro
>
> El es mi segundo tio bisabuelo.
>
> Tambien creo que sus papas, Juan de Dios Benites and
> Maria Antonia Navarro se casaron o eran de
> Guadalajara pero no puedo encontrar informacion de
> ellos. Ellos tambien tuvieron hijos que se casaron
> en Juchipila, Zac.
>
> GRACIAS!
Hi,
I would like to unsubscribe. I have tried but have not been successful. Any tips would be much-appreciated. I don't remember my password.
Thanks,
Nina
done,
joseph
====================
Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
Nina Fantl wrote:
> Hi,
> I would like to unsubscribe. I have tried but have not been successful. Any tips would be much-appreciated. I don't remember my password.
> Thanks,
> Nina
>
> general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
> Send General mailing list submissions to
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/general-nuestrosranchos.o…
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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> general-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of General digest..."
>
>
> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Downloading images from the Albums (arturoramos)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:40:26 -0800 (PST)
> From: arturoramos
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Downloading images from the Albums
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
>
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> 1. Find and open the album you want to dowload the images from
> 2. Click on a picture once to open the larger size (still within the Nuestros Ranchos site).
> 3. Click on the picture again to have it open up full screen (well full size at least... some do not fill up the entire screen)
> 4. Right click (Windows) or CTRL-clik (Mac) and select "Save Image As..."
> 5. Click "back" on your browser to return to Nuestros Ranchos site
> 6. Click on the next number above the image to go to next image and repeat from step 3.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
HOLA ALFONSO
POR EL MOMENTO NO TENGO ESA INFORMACIO, PERO EN CUANTO VUELVA AL ARCHIVO, BUSCARE SOBRE ELLOS, ESTAMOS EN CONTACTO, ESTAMOS EN CONTACTO, UN CORDIAL SALUDO, ATTE. LUPITA> From: general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: General Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:46:32 -0800> > Send General mailing list submissions to> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/general-nuestrosranchos.o…; > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> > You can reach the person managing the list at> general-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of General digest..."> > > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> DAILY DIGEST> ****************************************> > Today's Topics:> > 1
haven't checked this out but the description sounded interesting:
1. Exploring the Early Americas [Macromedia Flash Player]
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/earlyamericas/
The Jay I. Kislak Collection at the Library of Congress contains over 3000
Hi Joseph ,
Is there any way possible to download the pics of the Castas . I've tried to download them to my memory stick but , no luck . Are we permitted to do so ? This coming Tuesday I will be attending the monthly meeting of the Sociedad de Genealogia de Monterrey and I opened my mouth and told Daniel Zambrano the current president that I was going to share them with the group . Please let me know if I can do this , and if I can how can I go about it .
Thanks a bunch ,
Welester
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_01…
1. Find and open the album you want to dowload the images from
2. Click on a picture once to open the larger size (still within the Nuestros Ranchos site).
3. Click on the picture again to have it open up full screen (well full size at least... some do not fill up the entire screen)
4. Right click (Windows) or CTRL-clik (Mac) and select "Save Image As..."
5. Click "back" on your browser to return to Nuestros Ranchos site
6. Click on the next number above the image to go to next image and repeat from step 3.
Thank you Arturo ,
My problem was my memory stick was full . I bought a new one and was able to download the images .
Thanks again for your response ,
Welester
P.S. I'll let you know what the members of the Sociedad de Genealogia de Monterrey think of them
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:40:26 -0800> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Downloading images from the Albums> > > 1. Find and open the album you want to dowload the images from> 2. Click on a picture once to open the larger size (still within the Nuestros Ranchos site).> 3. Click on the picture again to have it open up full screen (well full size at least... some do not fill up the entire screen)> 4. Right click (Windows) or CTRL-clik (Mac) and select "Save Image As..."> 5. Click "back" on your browser to return to Nuestros Ranchos site> 6. Click on the next number above the image to go to next image and repeat from step 3.> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_…
FamilySearch (Genealogical Society of Utah) microfilmed the 1930 Mexico Natl. Census in the Mexico Natl. Archives back in the 1960s. They filmed everything that the archives had, which unfortunately wasn't everything. As for Aguascalientes the municipios: Aguascalientes, Calvillo, and Jesus Maria were 'lost' at the time of the microfilming. FamilySearch has not gone back to the Natl. archives to determine if the 'lost' municipios were ever found. You may want to inquire with them to see.
AliceBB,
The reason why you do not see the 1930 Census for Aguas is because the census has not been scanned yet. If I remember correctly, I think that is presumed to be lost.
_____________________________________________________________
Dear Campezina, Thank you so much for this information. It's what I was beginning to suspect, but couldn't confirm without the help of other members. I must also be the only one researching Aguas, Aguas that has ever tried accessing the Aguas, Aguas 1930 census, since no one had noticed the capital city missing from the listing! Thanks again, Alice BB
--- campezina@juno.com wrote:
From: "campezina@juno.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Aguas, Aguas
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 05:53:45 GMT
AliceBB,
The reason why you do not see the 1930 Census for Aguas is because the census has not been scanned yet. If I remember correctly, I think that is presumed to be lost.
_____________________________________________________________
Increase your income. Be a leader. Click here for great programs and learn valuable skills.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iieXMNoNyWV4VUO7cROM69…
To all the intrepid researchers at Nuestros Ranchos:
In searching through microfilm records, as I copy down the entries I find on
my ancestors and "might be related" persons, I strive to make these records
Hi Corrine/Corinne
Good question with as many answers as there are people keeping records. As for myself I had to standardize a surname but always include the original resource record so others can see there was a different spelling. Like you I use Rootsweb.com because you can get a pedrigree chart there with easy access and an index so others can check for other spellings. I know there must be errors since I have many surnames like Luera/Loera, Morillo/Murillo, Viramontes/Miramontes, Zuniga/Sungia, Zepeda/Sepeda, and as for S and Z being interchangeable I went with whatever that family seemed to be using in the later 1800's since things were very different in the 1500, 1600 and 1700's since few could read and write and scribes did what they thought was best. Also, the matter of people using surnames of their grandparents or mothers making them even harder to find.
We can never satisfy everyone else so we need to do what works best for us to make the records readable, traceable and easy to share. People can always contact us directly if they have questions or can make a correction.
Just my two cents worth, Linda in Everett
Corrine Ardoin wrote:
To all the intrepid researchers at Nuestros Ranchos:
In searching through microfilm records, as I copy down the entries I find on
my ancestors and "might be related" persons, I strive to make these records
as accurate as possible. However, as has been discussed in this forum in
the past, spelling of names, illegible penmanship, phonetic spelling, etc.
can make accuracy sometimes a hit and miss guessing game. Which could
result in inaccurate documentation. It is so tempting to just figure, based
on other entries, that one person in one entry is the same as another person
in another entry. For example, sometimes they spell a surname "Vanda,"
sometimes "Banda." Should I record it the way they spell it in each of the
entries, or should I "correct" them by standardizing the name myself, by
documenting what I think they meant everytime?
I realize I could get myself into a sticky situation. One reason is, that
"Vanda" could be a name different from "Banda" and the persons in each
entry, therefore, different people, no matter how similar everyone else in
these entries appear. My mistake would be to assume Jose Vanda married to
Maria Sanchez and Jose Banda married to Maria Sanches are the same people.
Some people, even today, spell their surnames ending in "s" or "z", as in
Gonzalez and Chavez. In one entry a Gregorio Peres, married to a Maria
Chavez, then becomes Gregorio Perez and Maria Chaves in another entry!
Changing it in my documentation, to all end in "z" or "s", could mean
recording it incorrectly for how they might have spelled their own names!
As you can see, and I'm sure many of you have discovered, this is one of the
challenges of reading handwritten records.
Some names are so illegible, I write down the name the best I can and place
a question mark after it. For example, "Peisnlar?" In other entries, all
the names are the same as in this one, but the person's last name is very
clearly "Pinuelas." Should I change "Peisnlar" to "Pinuelas," because I
think that's probably what was written, however illegible? Or, should I not
take any chances by guessing what it probably says in the record? I look
over how the recordkeeper wrote their letters, to aid in my reading their
penmanship, but sometimes there is just one name that stumps me and I put a
question mark after it, to let myself know that I gave up.
What do you do to make your records as accurate as possible? How do you
pass this information on to others, even download databases of your records
onto forums, make your records available to family, etc., when there are
these questionable areas? I know how frustrating it is to try and find an
ancestor in a database, such as Ancestry.com, only to discover after long
searching hours and days, and weeks, and years, that the name was completely
massacred and nowhere resembles the true name of that person. When I look
for "Frias," I also look for "Freas," and "Frillas," etc. But, what if it
is entered as "Frian," or "Fias," or something like that? Will I ever find
it?
I guess we can only do what is humanly possible. No one is perfect and we
can not expect that. We can only be thankful and quite grateful that we
have information being shared in the first place and at such a huge volume,
all around the world. Which brings me to the reason for my dismay. I have
decided to download all my records onto rootsweb and find many of my
carefully kept records are dotted with question marks and notes in
parenthesis. I want to share this information, but I want to provide it as
accurately as I can.
Thank-you, all, for your help and words of wisdom!
Questions and thoughts from Santa Maria, California
>From Corrine Ardoin (I spell my first name inaccurately, because that was
how I was taught to spell it as a child, but I have since found from baptism
and birth records, my given name is "Corinne," which my father always
pointed out to me. But I never listened to him! So, to this day, I spell
even my own name incorrectly!)
For what it is worth: I use 20th century standard Spanish spelling in the part of the data base which generates an alpha list. I use the documents' actual spelling in the part of my records which contains the details. This second section also contains my own code, as you have, of symbols to show uncertainty, lack of verification, etc.
David in Albany, CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Corrine Ardoin
>Sent: Feb 1, 2008 1:22 PM
>To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Accurate Documentation
>
>To all the intrepid researchers at Nuestros Ranchos:
>
>In searching through microfilm records, as I copy down the entries I find on
>my ancestors and "might be related" persons, I strive to make these records
>as accurate as possible... Should I record it the way they spell it in each of the
>entries, or should I "correct" them by standardizing the name myself, by
>documenting what I think they meant everytime?
>
David P. Delgado
Corinne,
(think I got that right! :-) )
I have struggled with this myself and don't really know a good answer, so I just keep doing what I'm doing...just hoping it's the right thing.
After extracting hundreds of names from the parish records of Aguas., I can say two things. First, even when names are spelled identically and consistently, I've barked up the wrong tree..and second, I'm just hoping to make it a little easier for whoever comes after me. :-)
I will say that I have kept true to the records and copied the record exactly - including the misspellings, omissions, additions, etc. that are in the actual record. When I have enough energy I make notes in margins, etc. to show what I believe was intended. I think it's very important to copy these 'mistakes' because it leaves a sort of paper trail, if you will, of how some branches of a surname came about. If we 'fix' everything to the most commonly acceptable spelling today, we can lose sight of what branch we come from. Also, all these newly discovered variants help other genealogists when they come across similar misspellings.
I, too, sometimes get stumped by that ONE word that I can't decipher even after making a pretty thorough study of the scribe's handwriting. I list my suppositions on a sticky note and move on. I've actually gone back to some of them and 'discovered' what a particular word was later, after seeing it written legibly (or more appropriately spelled) in another entry.
My real frustration is that the software cannot keep those variant spellings or changes in order of surnames. If I type in the name of a child, it automatically gives me a surname. However, that child may or may not have taken the exact surname as the parent. If you try to change the name/spelling, it will conclude that the new name is a different person, since it can only show one name for a person. Of course, I write these variations in each individual's notes, but it takes a while, and those don't usually show in a list/tree.
Even more importantly, these don't transfer into a database! When possible I've sent out trees, outline trees, etc. with my complete notes. Just in case someone really needs that. It makes for a longer document, but for true researchers those notes can be invaluable.
Well, I don't believe I've added anything of real value, but this note may serve at least to let you know that I believe most of us are in the same boat. Perhaps one day we, as researchers, can work toward unifying a tree/data sheet format which might include a place for a variant spelling (for example, a blank where we could list the original spelling if different from the common/modern one). Or it may be possible to push software developers to create an option where we might be able to 'flag' a name in our database with a variant original spelling, with odd circumstances, etc.
Just a few thoughts from way out west in TX...
Connie Dominguez
El Paso, TX
---- Corrine Ardoin wrote:
=============
To all the intrepid researchers at Nuestros Ranchos:
In searching through microfilm records, as I copy down the entries I find on
my ancestors and "might be related" persons, I strive to make these records
as accurate as possible. However, as has been discussed in this forum in
the past, spelling of names, illegible penmanship, phonetic spelling, etc.
can make accuracy sometimes a hit and miss guessing game. Which could
result in inaccurate documentation. It is so tempting to just figure, based
on other entries, that one person in one entry is the same as another person
in another entry. For example, sometimes they spell a surname "Vanda,"
sometimes "Banda." Should I record it the way they spell it in each of the
entries, or should I "correct" them by standardizing the name myself, by
documenting what I think they meant everytime?
I realize I could get myself into a sticky situation. One reason is, that
"Vanda" could be a name different from "Banda" and the persons in each
entry, therefore, different people, no matter how similar everyone else in
these entries appear. My mistake would be to assume Jose Vanda married to
Maria Sanchez and Jose Banda married to Maria Sanches are the same people.
Some people, even today, spell their surnames ending in "s" or "z", as in
Gonzalez and Chavez. In one entry a Gregorio Peres, married to a Maria
Chavez, then becomes Gregorio Perez and Maria Chaves in another entry!
Changing it in my documentation, to all end in "z" or "s", could mean
recording it incorrectly for how they might have spelled their own names!
As you can see, and I'm sure many of you have discovered, this is one of the
challenges of reading handwritten records.
Some names are so illegible, I write down the name the best I can and place
a question mark after it. For example, "Peisnlar?" In other entries, all
the names are the same as in this one, but the person's last name is very
clearly "Pinuelas." Should I change "Peisnlar" to "Pinuelas," because I
think that's probably what was written, however illegible? Or, should I not
take any chances by guessing what it probably says in the record? I look
over how the recordkeeper wrote their letters, to aid in my reading their
penmanship, but sometimes there is just one name that stumps me and I put a
question mark after it, to let myself know that I gave up.
What do you do to make your records as accurate as possible? How do you
pass this information on to others, even download databases of your records
onto forums, make your records available to family, etc., when there are
these questionable areas? I know how frustrating it is to try and find an
ancestor in a database, such as Ancestry.com, only to discover after long
searching hours and days, and weeks, and years, that the name was completely
massacred and nowhere resembles the true name of that person. When I look
for "Frias," I also look for "Freas," and "Frillas," etc. But, what if it
is entered as "Frian," or "Fias," or something like that? Will I ever find
it?
I guess we can only do what is humanly possible. No one is perfect and we
can not expect that. We can only be thankful and quite grateful that we
have information being shared in the first place and at such a huge volume,
all around the world. Which brings me to the reason for my dismay. I have
decided to download all my records onto rootsweb and find many of my
carefully kept records are dotted with question marks and notes in
parenthesis. I want to share this information, but I want to provide it as
accurately as I can.
Thank-you, all, for your help and words of wisdom!
Questions and thoughts from Santa Maria, California
>From Corrine Ardoin (I spell my first name inaccurately, because that was
how I was taught to spell it as a child, but I have since found from baptism
and birth records, my given name is "Corinne," which my father always
pointed out to me. But I never listened to him! So, to this day, I spell
even my own name incorrectly!)
Many of you probably know this, but it is worth repeating. Ancestry.com has
tackled this problem by allowing you to record "alternate" information for
things such as name, dates of birth, death, and locations. In searches,
alternate names appear along with the "preferred" name, so that variants and
misspellings are not lost to future genealogists. It also allows you to
spell the ancestor's name differently from that of the parent or child, if
there has truly been such a name change, without breaking the continuity of
the family tree. On both sides of my family, variants occur regularly:
Romo/Romo de Vivar/Romo de Bivar, and Wolfe/Wolf. If I think the spelling
is an error, I try to use the name as spelled most often in records of the
historical period, and I enter the variant as an "alternate."
I have not used any other genealogy software, but I imagine ancestry.com is
not the only one that has figured this out.
Karr Wolfe Romo (de Vivar)
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
cdominguez10@elp.rr.com
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 10:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: Corrine Ardoin
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Accurate Documentation
Corinne,
(think I got that right! :-) )
I have struggled with this myself and don't really know a good answer, so I
just keep doing what I'm doing...just hoping it's the right thing.
After extracting hundreds of names from the parish records of Aguas., I can
say two things. First, even when names are spelled identically and
consistently, I've barked up the wrong tree..and second, I'm just hoping to
make it a little easier for whoever comes after me. :-)
Karr:
Thank-you for telling me about that. I added a category for "Notes," but I hesitated adding one for variations of spellings for names, because I don't know how the information shows up, from the database to the search engine. I don't know how all that works, but your comments certainly help in showing me that this issue can be accomodated.
Corrine
Every single document I've ever seen of my Morillo ancestors has been
spelled Morillo, isn't that something? Marge:)
On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
> Hi Corrine/Corinne
> Good question with as many answers as there are people keeping
> records. As for myself I had to standardize a surname but always
> include the original resource record so others can see there was a
> different spelling. Like you I use Rootsweb.com because you can get a
> pedrigree chart there with easy access and an index so others can
> check for other spellings. I know there must be errors since I have
> many surnames like Luera/Loera, Morillo/Murillo,
> Viramontes/Miramontes, Zuniga/Sungia, Zepeda/Sepeda, and as for S and
> Z being interchangeable I went with whatever that family seemed to be
> using in the later 1800's since things were very different in the
> 1500, 1600 and 1700's since few could read and write and scribes did
> what they thought was best. Also, the matter of people using surnames
> of their grandparents or mothers making them even harder to find.
> We can never satisfy everyone else so we need to do what works best
> for us to make the records readable, traceable and easy to share.
> People can always contact us directly if they have questions or can
> make a correction.
>
> Just my two cents worth, Linda in Everett
>
> Corrine Ardoin wrote:
> To all the intrepid researchers at Nuestros Ranchos:
>
> In searching through microfilm records, as I copy down the entries I
> find on
> my ancestors and "might be related" persons, I strive to make these
> records
> as accurate as possible. However, as has been discussed in this forum
> in
> the past, spelling of names, illegible penmanship, phonetic spelling,
> etc.
> can make accuracy sometimes a hit and miss guessing game. Which could
> result in inaccurate documentation. It is so tempting to just figure,
> based
> on other entries, that one person in one entry is the same as another
> person
> in another entry. For example, sometimes they spell a surname "Vanda,"
> sometimes "Banda." Should I record it the way they spell it in each of
> the
> entries, or should I "correct" them by standardizing the name myself,
> by
> documenting what I think they meant everytime?
>
> I realize I could get myself into a sticky situation. One reason is,
> that
> "Vanda" could be a name different from "Banda" and the persons in each
> entry, therefore, different people, no matter how similar everyone
> else in
> these entries appear. My mistake would be to assume Jose Vanda married
> to
> Maria Sanchez and Jose Banda married to Maria Sanches are the same
> people.
> Some people, even today, spell their surnames ending in "s" or "z", as
> in
> Gonzalez and Chavez. In one entry a Gregorio Peres, married to a Maria
> Chavez, then becomes Gregorio Perez and Maria Chaves in another entry!
> Changing it in my documentation, to all end in "z" or "s", could mean
> recording it incorrectly for how they might have spelled their own
> names!
> As you can see, and I'm sure many of you have discovered, this is one
> of the
> challenges of reading handwritten records.
>
> Some names are so illegible, I write down the name the best I can and
> place
> a question mark after it. For example, "Peisnlar?" In other entries,
> all
> the names are the same as in this one, but the person's last name is
> very
> clearly "Pinuelas." Should I change "Peisnlar" to "Pinuelas," because I
> think that's probably what was written, however illegible? Or, should
> I not
> take any chances by guessing what it probably says in the record? I
> look
> over how the recordkeeper wrote their letters, to aid in my reading
> their
> penmanship, but sometimes there is just one name that stumps me and I
> put a
> question mark after it, to let myself know that I gave up.
>
> What do you do to make your records as accurate as possible? How do you
> pass this information on to others, even download databases of your
> records
> onto forums, make your records available to family, etc., when there
> are
> these questionable areas? I know how frustrating it is to try and find
> an
> ancestor in a database, such as Ancestry.com, only to discover after
> long
> searching hours and days, and weeks, and years, that the name was
> completely
> massacred and nowhere resembles the true name of that person. When I
> look
> for "Frias," I also look for "Freas," and "Frillas," etc. But, what if
> it
> is entered as "Frian," or "Fias," or something like that? Will I ever
> find
> it?
>
> I guess we can only do what is humanly possible. No one is perfect and
> we
> can not expect that. We can only be thankful and quite grateful that we
> have information being shared in the first place and at such a huge
> volume,
> all around the world. Which brings me to the reason for my dismay. I
> have
> decided to download all my records onto rootsweb and find many of my
> carefully kept records are dotted with question marks and notes in
> parenthesis. I want to share this information, but I want to provide
> it as
> accurately as I can.
>
> Thank-you, all, for your help and words of wisdom!
>
> Questions and thoughts from Santa Maria, California
>> From Corrine Ardoin (I spell my first name inaccurately, because that
>> was
> how I was taught to spell it as a child, but I have since found from
> baptism
> and birth records, my given name is "Corinne," which my father always
> pointed out to me. But I never listened to him! So, to this day, I
> spell
> even my own name incorrectly!)
Linda:
I like that, "what works best for us to make the records readable, traceable, and easy to share." That is a good standard to follow. Thank-you!
Corrine in Santa Maria, California
PARA LUPITA GONZALEZ