Dr.mt

Conversion of Microfilms to Digital Records at SLC

Published by Visitor (not verified) –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

For your information, if you haven't read the latest on this project, I'm forwarding a message posted yesterday at the genealogia.org.mx group:

On 3/16/06, Administrador - Genealogia.org.mx wrote:

Unlocking the Vault: Conversion to Digital Records is Progressing
By Brittany Karford, Church Magazines
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,40-1-3384-9,00.html

Members may not have to wonder what lies behind the 14-ton vault door
at the Church's Granite Mountain Vault Records (GMVR) facility for much
longer. In as little as 10 years, much of its genealogical collection
may be at their fingertips.

Comments

Published by wixaritori (not verified) – Fri, 2006-03-17 01:30 | Permalink

Comment

For your information, if you haven't read the latest on this project, I'm forwarding a message posted yesterday at the genealogia.org.mx group:

On 3/16/06, Administrador - Genealogia.org.mx wrote:

Unlocking the Vault: Conversion to Digital Records is Progressing
By Brittany Karford, Church Magazines
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,40-1-3384-9,00.html

Members may not have to wonder what lies behind the 14-ton vault door
at the Church's Granite Mountain Vault Records (GMVR) facility for much
longer. In as little as 10 years, much of its genealogical collection
may be at their fingertips.

The billions of names preserved on microfilmed records at the vault are
being converted to digital images that can eventually be viewed online
at FamilySearch.org and ultimately searched in and linked to an online
index. The process of digitizing the microfilm is now faster than ever
through a "bleeding edge" technology system called FamilySearch™
Scanning.

"I call it unlocking the vault," says Heath Nielson, the
program's lead software engineer. "I cannot wait for the day when
accessibility to these records becomes available to all."

When that day comes, the records will be available to everyone, both
Latter-day Saints and the public-"God's children
everywhere"-according to the project team. And for those
researching family history under either title, it will mean no more
microfilm, and no more eyes strained from looking at film under dim
light.

The vision, says Brent Thompson, director of records preservation, is
that in the future members in Lima, Peru, who now wait up to six or
eight weeks for microfilm, will be able to go to a family history
center or anywhere with Internet access and look at records with the
click of a button.

It is a giant first step toward putting most of the family history
collection of the GMRV online. Online images and indexes of birth,
marriage, and death records from all over the world may altogether
change how family history work is done. Currently, only a minority of
members pursue family history work, but the accessibility enabled
through FamilySearch Scanning will make it simple for anyone with
Internet access to get involved.

Brother Thompson believes they will, though at first he didn't dream
digitizing the collection would be possible.

"I couldn't imagine it possible in my lifetime," he says. "I
couldn't imagine it possible in my children's lifetime."

At the rate they were going prior to the FamilySearch Scanning
technology, it was estimated that it would take 120 years to convert
applicable films to digital. That same projection is now less than 30
years, perhaps sooner with planned expansions of additional scanners.
The team that couldn't fathom living to see the end result will now be
the team that will someday complete the digitizing process.

So how does it work? One vault worker loads rolls of film into a pod of
scanners and presses "Go". The scanner then takes one comprehensive
video picture and transfers that continuous file to another computer,
where an application analyzes the contrast of the ribbon for quality
and splits each frame into individual JPEGs (a digital file of an
image). To finish, a good pair of eyes reviews the job and processes
the newly created JPEGs. The digital images are then readied for use by
the Church's online indexing program, where volunteers over time will
help extract the birth, marriage, and death information from the images
to create free searchable indexes online (like the 1880 U.S., 1880
Canada, and 1881 British Censuses currently found at FamilySearch.org).

This is a great improvement over the process used just a little more
than a year ago, where one person had to be present throughout the
entire process, manually scrutinizing each frame. Through three to four
feet of film, one technician would adjust the light and contrast with
the film density changes, watching every image come across the screen
and cutting it out. "We thought, 'How can we apply computer
technology to save these poor people's eyes?' " explains Derek
Dobson, product manager. "And how can we more quickly convert these
microfilms to digital images so people can access them more readily on
the Internet?"

Enter Heath Nielson and a team of engineers. Not only does the computer
system they developed speed the process up, but by taking the frames on
a continuous file, it retains the contextual information of each slide
as a piece of a whole.

"In the computer, it's not piecemeal. You can look at a single
frame next to its neighbors, and it tells you something about it,"
Brother Nielson says. Also, with the manual process there was no way of
knowing if they had missed an image, something that is not a factor
with the continuous file.

Though the technology is not entirely novel, their ability to act and
the Church's ability to execute and implement the technology for its
intended purposes makes them pioneers in the field. Yet setting the
program into motion has not been without its glitches.

"It's something I still feel fervently about," Brother Nielson
says. "I knew that if this was something we needed to do, there would
be a way provided." And there was. In the hard and frustrating times,
he said they would find just what mechanism they needed and receive
help from specific individuals just when they needed it-one step at a
time.

On just four scanners, they have tripled output-yet they've still
only completed four percent of the targeted films at the vault, and
more films are coming in. This year alone, they expect to acquire an
additional 28,000, says Wayne Crosby, general manager of GMVR. They
have a lot of work to do.

The good news is they are two to three years away from completing the
transition from microfilm cameras to digital cameras. When this
transition is complete, only the existing microfilm collection will
need to be converted to digital.

Film and microfiche will continue to be stored in the vault, even after
their digital conversion. "The polyester film lasts 300 to 500 years
and will continue to be used for long-term preservation," Brother
Crosby explains, noting that the digitizing of the records is to make
them more accessible to family history researchers, not to make
preservation easier.

And so it's back into the long, chilly corridors deep within Granite
Mountain for not only the polyester films, but the new digital records
as well. There they will reside in one of six 190-foot long rooms.
About 1 million rolls of film are held in each vault, maintained at a
constant 55 degrees and 30 percent humidity, ideal for preservation.

>From the doorway, the row after row of monstrous file cabinets creates
the impression of having fallen into Alice and Wonderland and stepped
into a strange office where filing cabinets stretch from floor to
ceiling.

But the vault where the digital images are stored is for the most part
empty (One DVD can hold up to 4 digitized microfilms). A few short
cabinets hold what's been converted so far, and the expansiveness of
the room whispers of a future when it will be filled. When that day
comes, most members will be able to access the digital images of the
films anywhere they have Internet access-from their homes or local
Family History Center-through the Church's genealogical Web site,
http://www.familysearch.org; and the staff at GMVR won't be bundling in
their coats as often to retrieve fiche and film.

"Think how easy that will be," says Paul Nauta, public relations
manager for the Family and Church History Department. "In the future
individuals anywhere in the world through the Internet will be able to
search the majority of the GMRV's film collection and the billions of
names currently hidden in them-all from the convenience of their
homes or family history center."

"Won't it be nice if in between naps and playing with my children, I
can jump on the Internet and do family history research," says
Brother Nielson.

"This technology is the answer to our hopes, our dreams, and our
prayers," Brother Thompson adds. He smiles, looking out one of the
main office windows-or rather, a giant half-dome portal that opens
the granite slab to the north-facing alpine slope across the canyon.
About to step out of the paper-and-film world that has shaped his
profession, he reflects on the mountainside.

"What a view," he says, "and what a great resource this is for
the Church. What an inspiration it was to build this facility in a
solid wall of granite."
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,40-1-3384-9,00.html

T-Time (Transition)

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion



Over 50% of the members have retrieved their
passwords. Great. At the end
of March we will be setting everyone's Yahoo
subscription to "No
Mail." This means that if you want to communicate with the group you'll
need to send your email to one of the email lists on the new site,
REMEMBER you need to subscribe to the email lists by logging in and
clicking on "mailing lists" from the right-hand menu. I would
strongly suggest that the other 50% of you go in and get your http://nuestrosranchos.org
password and
subscribe to the 3 email lists by clicking “mailing lists” on the right-hand
menu. [Note: You cannot
send messages to the new lists unless you have subscribed to them.  You
must
also remember that when
you subscribe to the lists the site will generate a confirmation email
for each
list. When you receive the confirmation email just reply to it to
complete the
confirmation process].

As
a reminder, the directions for the new lists are as follows:

Read full topic ➜

Something that affects All us genealogists

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Elvira and Josie sent me this email. I thought I'd pass it onto the
group. We touched this subject awhile back and I wish there was someway
we could see how much progress they are making. I'd also love to know
when they will have Jalisco and Zacatecas and Aguascalientes done!

Nuestra Vida

Published by nc_coleman –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion of a "Nuestra Vida
Project". What is the current status of this project? Is this
something that is only found on the Nuestros Ranchos site?

I am curious because I am actually looking for information on the

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Wed, 2006-03-15 15:20 | Permalink

Comment

Natalie:

Here is a birria recipe from MexGrocer.com... By the way since you are out here on the East Coast with me, with limited access to Mexican ingredients, the website is great... they even sell tortilla presses.

http://www.mexgrocer.com/511-birria.html

Also, adding to Marge's Mexican proverbs, my mother is a walking encyclopedia of them. We used to joke as kids that she could carry on an entire conversation (or scolding) speaking only in proverbs:

El diablo es mas sabio por viejo que por diablo.
The devil is wise moreso due to his age than to his post.

Para cada pie cojo hay un calcetin roto.
For every broken foot there is a rotten stocking.

El que compra barato compra a cada rato.
He who buys cheaply buys often.

Published by xxxevilla33 (not verified) – Wed, 2006-03-15 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

NATALIE: CHILES RELLENOS always sounds good....Specially if you prepare them POBLABO style..chiles rellenos enogados huummmmmmricos...

Natalie wrote:

A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion of a "Nuestra Vida
Project". What is the current status of this project? Is this
something that is only found on the Nuestros Ranchos site?

I am curious because I am actually looking for information on the
preparation of Birria (a kind of goat stew, although I think I would
prefer to use lamb). I had it a few times in my youth, but that was
DECADES ago. I am also wondering about preparing lamb on the barbecue
or in a smoker. Does anyone have any experience with this. Birria was
one of my father's favorites, and I noticed on one of the Zacatecas
links to municipalities/districts,
that Birria is a specialty of the
Valparaiso area (my father was born in the rural area part of
Valparaiso district). That is the GENEALOGICAL link. Anyway, I was
thinking of fixing it for Easter - so if you have any hints, I would
very much appreciate them. Thanks, or as they say on Latino USA
(NPR) - "gracias por su atencion" (pardon my spelling).
Have a good day - take care.

Natalie in VA
PS - If you have any other suggestions for a Mexican-themed Easter
menu, please share.   -ncc




Brings words and photos together (easily) with

PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Read full comment ➜

Published by campezina – Thu, 2006-03-16 16:15 | Permalink

Comment

BIRRIA

Serves 6 to 8. You can substitute lamb.

1 baby goat, about 15 pounds dressed weight, cut into large pieces

2 lbs (1,800 grams) of corn masa

16 pepper corns

8 oz. (225 grs.) of chile mora

6 cloves of garlic

5 cloves of allspice

Salt

1 stick of cinnamon

1/2 teaspoon of cumin

Vinegar as necessary

1 pan, large (any large roasting pan works well)

The following are as needed to use as the sauce. While the meat is cooking
prepare the sauce and garnishing, consisting of

Tomatoes

Chiles

Onions, minced

Oregano to taste

Salt

Preheat oven to 375 degrees F. The meat needs to be cooked slowly.

Cut the meat in large pieces, stab with a knife and then put it in a pan
(charola). Put it in the oven. Toast the chiles lightly, then submerge them into
hot water for a few minutes to loosen the skins, peel. In a mortar or a
molcajete* mash the garlic and all the spices, add vinegar to form a sauce that
is neither too watery nor too dry, add salt and cover. Allow it to rest for 24
hours. After it has rested, cover the pan with a layer of paper towels. Add
another layer using the masa until the meat is completely covered. The purpose
is to make sure it can hold the steam (el vapor) that will cook the meat. Cook
in the oven for 3 hours. Break the seal in the pan and check the meat; it should
be very tender. If not, reseal it and cook longer. When you are going to serve
it, uncover and pour  the leftover juice in a pan to cool. Skim the fat and
add  to the sauce. This makes the birria. Serve hot.

I like it in tacos with tortillas de maíz or pan blanco, served as a torta
filling. French bread works great. Because it is greasy, make sure you have
plenty of napkins.

SAUCE:

Cook tomatoes and chiles in enough water just to cover them, then mash and
make the salsa. Add the meat juice left by the cooking of the meat (skim first
if you like), salt, oregano, and minced (picada) onion. Serve with the meat.

*A blender is not recommended because it destroys vitamins by introducing too
much air into the mix and too much frothiness in the marinating sauce. Vitamins
are light and air sensitive.

This is an old recipe I have had for about 30-35 years which I translated
from an old cookbook by Bertha Zelarayan. She skips some of the instructions
that a regular Mexican cook would automatically know, so I had to put them back
in.

Here’s another one, slightly different.

BIRRIA

Serves 6 to 8

1 baby goat, about 15 pounds dressed weight, cut into serving pieces

3 whole cloves

3 whole allspice

2 bay leaves, center spines removed

2 tablespoons dried oregano leaves

1 teaspoon cumin seeds

1 tablespoon salt

2 teaspoons black pepper corns

flour and water for making a paste

2 tablespoons lard or olive oil

8 guajillo chilies

1 tablespoon cumin seeds

salt

Preheat oven to 375 degrees F

In a mortar with a pestle or in a spice grinder, grind together the cloves,
allspice, bay leaves, oregano, cumin, salt, and pepperand rub the mixture into
the meat. Put the meat on a rack over hot water. You can use any sort of pan or
pot you want. The idea is to use a vessel that has a rack for holding the meat
above the water, and has a lid. Make a paste of flour and water to the
consistency of that gooey white glue that used to get all over your clothes in
kindergarten. Arrange the meat on the rack, cover and use the paste to seal the
lid. Place over medium-low heat and cook for 3 hours. Unseal the pan and test
the meat; it should be very tender. If not, reseal it and cook longer.

When the meat is ready, remove to a roasting pan or any pan large enough to
hold it. Pour out the cooking juices into a bowl and let

rest until the fat comes to the top. Skim off the fat and discard. Reserve l
cup of the liquid. Prepare the chilies for the sauce while the meat is cooking.
Heat the lard in a skillet until hot but not smoking. Dip in the chilies, one at
a time, for a few seconds only. Remove the chilies from the fat and let cool.
Wearing rubber gloves, stem and seed the chilies and put into a pot. Add the
reserved 1 cup cooking liquid and simmer over medium-low heat about 10 minutes.
Meanwhile, in a small, dry skillet over medium heat, toast the cumin seeds until
they "dance." In a mortar with a pestle, grind them to a thick paste with a
little water. Toward the end of the cooking time for the chilies, stir in the
cumin paste, and add salt to taste. Pour the chili mixture into a blender. Puree
until smooth. Pour the puree the sauce and pour over the meat. Put it in the
oven and bake for about 30 minutes. Serve hot.

From the Recipe cottage at http://www.recipecottage.com/mexican/birria04.html

 

----- Original Message -----
From:
francisco
sevilla
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:21
PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Nuestra Vida


NATALIE:
CHILES RELLENOS always sounds good....Specially if you prepare them
POBLABO style..chiles rellenos enogados huummmmmmricos...

Natalie
<nc_coleman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

A
couple of weeks ago there was a discussion of a "Nuestra Vida
Project".
What is the current status of this project? Is this
something that is
only found on the Nuestros Ranchos site?

I am curious because I am
actually looking for information on the
preparation of Birria (a kind of
goat stew, although I think I would
prefer to use lamb). I had it a few
times in my youth, but that was
DECADES ago. I am also wondering about
preparing lamb on the barbecue
or in a smoker. Does anyone have any
experience with this. Birria was
one of my father's favorites, and I
noticed on one of the Zacatecas
links to municipalities/districts, that
Birria is a specialty of the
Valparaiso area (my father was born in the
rural area part of
Valparaiso district). That is the GENEALOGICAL link.
Anyway, I was
thinking of fixing it for Easter - so if you have any
hints, I would
very much appreciate them. Thanks, or as they say on
Latino USA
(NPR) - "gracias por su atencion" (pardon my
spelling).
Have a good day - take care.

Natalie in VA
PS - If
you have any other suggestions for a Mexican-themed Easter
menu, please
share.   -ncc




Read full comment ➜

Published by oldcar53 – Wed, 2006-03-15 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

A few weeks ago when the Northern California Nueva Galicia group met in Sacramento, I presented a challenge to the group when I introduced a few books. One of those books was folk wisdoms of Mexico or in Español, Proverbios y dichos Mexicanos. I challenged all members to go out and find a book or books on folk wisdoms, customs or traditions of Mexico. Here in California it is probably easier to do than in other states. You can find them in art museums, gift shops, book stores and even at Target and Walmart.   I will share some of those dichos with you from this book by Jeff M Sellers with a foreward by Gary Soto. This is a small pocket size 78 page book.   1) Para tonto no se estudia. One needn't study to become a fool   2) El que nunca va a tu casa
en la suya no te quiere. He who never goes to your house does not want you in his.   3) El que parte y comparte se queda con la mejor parte. He who divides and shares is left with the best share.   4) Hay que aprender a perder antes de saber jugar. One must learn how to lose before learning how to play.   Now let's see who can come up with some more dichos or sayings. Who can find a small book to share either on-line or at the next meeting.   Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo San Jose, Ca

 

Read full comment ➜

Comment

My grandma used to say "El que comè y canta, loco se levanta" Marge:)
On Mar 15, 2006, at 3:19 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

> A few weeks ago when the Northern California Nueva Galicia group met
> in Sacramento, I presented a challenge to the group when I introduced
> a few books. One of those books was folk wisdoms of Mexico or in
> Español, Proverbios y dichos Mexicanos. I challenged all members to go
> out and find a book or books on folk wisdoms, customs or traditions of
> Mexico. Here in California it is probably easier to do than in other
> states. You can find them in art museums, gift shops, book stores and
> even at Target and Walmart.
>  
> I will share some of those dichos with you from this book by Jeff M
> Sellers with a foreward by Gary Soto. This is a small pocket size 78
> page book.
>  
> 1) Para tonto no se estudia.
> One needn't study to become a fool
>  
> 2) El que nunca va a tu casa en la suya no te quiere.
> He who never goes to your house does not want you in his.
>  
> 3) El que parte y comparte se queda con la mejor parte.
> He who divides and shares is left with the best share.
>  
> 4) Hay que aprender a perder antes de saber jugar.
> One must learn how to lose before learning how to play.
>  
> Now let's see who can come up with some more dichos or sayings. Who
> can find a small book to share either on-line or at the next meeting.
>  
> Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>  
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Aguascalientes
> Zacatecas
> Zacatecas mexico
> Zacatecas hotel
> Fiesta americana aguascalientes
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> ▪  Visit your group "ranchos" on the web.
>  
> ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

Comment

Natalie:

Here is a birria recipe from MexGrocer.com... By the way since you are out here on the East Coast with me, with limited access to Mexican ingredients, the website is great... they even sell tortilla presses.

http://www.mexgrocer.com/511-birria.html

Also, adding to Marge's Mexican proverbs, my mother is a walking encyclopedia of them. We used to joke as kids that she could carry on an entire conversation (or scolding) speaking only in proverbs:

El diablo es mas sabio por viejo que por diablo.
The devil is wise moreso due to his age than to his post.

Para cada pie cojo hay un calcetin roto.
For every broken foot there is a rotten stocking.

El que compra barato compra a cada rato.
He who buys cheaply buys often.

Comment

Alicia,
The book of sayings that I have is:
"Mexican Sayings: The Treasure of a People"
by Octavio A. Ballesteros and Maria del Carmen Ballesteros

Publ. by Eakin Press, 1992
ISBN 0-89015-810-X

It is 78 pages, and has 427 dichos, with English translation, plus an
interpretation of the saying.
I have had this book for over 10 yrs (but only get around to looking
at it once in a while; moreso now with the interest in Ranchos).

ncc

Format of New Website

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
Announcements and Events

I just signed up for my new password so I can navigate this new website, and I find that I can barely read even this as I type it. Could the fonts be larger and bolder? When the messages come through the Yahoo Groups website I can read everything well, but I am really having trouble reading on this website. I am also having trouble understanding the menu of forum topics. Will there be a long list of forum topics to navigate through to find something we want to re-read? I had to submit a forum topic for this message and I couldn't find a forum that seemed appropriate for it.

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Wed, 2006-03-15 14:46 | Permalink

Comment

Having heard your suggestions, I have made a couple of changes to the new Nuestros Ranchos website. There is no longer "Active topics" and "New Topics" blocks on the right-hand menu. Instead there are three blocks, each showing the most recently active topics for one of the three forums/mailing lists.

Also, as some of you have figured out, there is an alternative (easier to read if a bit less aesthetically pleasing) layout theme for the site. That means that you can change the way the site looks on your computer once you log in. The alternative theme is very simple with bold brown and black fonts.

To change your theme, once you are logged on, click on "My Account", then click the "Edit" tab and scroll all the way to the bottom. There are two themes: Blix (default green/turquoise) and Chameleon (alternative bold brown). If you have any problems, let me know privately and I can change the theme for you.

Please let me know of any other changes that would make the site easier to use. I can't promise anything, but these were simple changes that will hopefully make the user experience better for people.

Published by arturoramos – Mon, 2006-02-27 07:45 | Permalink

Comment

Emilie:

Thanks for the feedback on the new site. I will see if I can make some changes to the current layout of the site. Others have also pointed out to some deficiencies in the style and layout. If I cannot sufficiently address these issues, we may have to go with a more simple, perhaps less aesthetic, but more practical layout. It is in fact quite easy to switch between different templates for the site.

Perhaps I will put up one of these basic (and most likely easier to read) templates up for a day or two and see what people think.

As far as the forum topics, we are kind of between a rock and a hard place. On YahooGroups, there is only a single mailing list so people interested in the cultural historical aspects are forced to receive all of the messages related to specific research questions such as how to look up a border crossing record (and vice versa)... What we wanted to do was let people select the topics in which they had the most interest and wanted to get in their mailboxes and which ones they could attend to on the website or in digest emails.

We decided that the three divisions would be sufficient to cover most of what is currently posted on YahooGroups. I know that website questions does not really fit into any of them, but hopefully we will not be sending out website related emails for much longer. If you have suggestions for another forum/mailing list, let us know. It is in fact rather easy to set up.

Comment

Joseph? Rosalinda?
I tried to get a password assigned,using my Yahoo
username, and managed to get sent 3 of them -- it was not
confirming that it had sent me email so I hit it 3 times
before giving up :-( I have tried logging in with all 3
passwords, making sure I have enabled cookies, and no
luck. Keeps telling me username or password incorrect.
I've tried numerous times and typed very, veeeery
carefully.
Kim Raine

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Published by arturoramos – Wed, 2006-03-15 15:00 | Permalink

Comment

Having heard your suggestions, I have made a couple of changes to the new Nuestros Ranchos website. There is no longer "Active topics" and "New Topics" blocks on the right-hand menu. Instead there are three blocks, each showing the most recently active topics for one of the three forums/mailing lists.

Also, as some of you have figured out, there is an alternative (easier to read if a bit less aesthetically pleasing) layout theme for the site. That means that you can change the way the site looks on your computer once you log in. The alternative theme is very simple with bold brown and black fonts.

To change your theme, once you are logged on, click on "My Account", then click the "Edit" tab and scroll all the way to the bottom. There are two themes: Blix (default green/turquoise) and Chameleon (alternative bold brown). If you have any problems, let me know privately and I can change the theme for you.

Please let me know of any other changes that would make the site easier to use. I can't promise anything, but these were simple changes that will hopefully make the user experience better for people.

Published by arturoramos – Mon, 2006-02-27 07:35 | Permalink

Comment

Emilie:

Thanks for the feedback on the new site. I will see if I can make some changes to the current layout of the site. Others have also pointed out to some deficiencies in the style and layout. If I cannot sufficiently address these issues, we may have to go with a more simple, perhaps less aesthetic, but more practical layout. It is in fact quite easy to switch between different templates for the site.

Perhaps I will put up one of these basic (and most likely easier to read) templates up for a day or two and see what people think.

As far as the forum topics, we are kind of between a rock and a hard place. On YahooGroups, there is only a single mailing list so people interested in the cultural historical aspects are forced to receive all of the messages related to specific research questions such as how to look up a border crossing record (and vice versa)... What we wanted to do was let people select the topics in which they had the most interest and wanted to get in their mailboxes and which ones they could attend to on the website or in digest emails.

We decided that the three divisions would be sufficient to cover most of what is currently posted on YahooGroups. I know that website questions does not really fit into any of them, but hopefully we will not be sending out website related emails for much longer. If you have suggestions for another forum/mailing list, let us know. It is in fact rather easy to set up.

Comment

Well, I appreciated receiving ALL the topics in the past. If there was
something I didn't want to read, I just used my delete button. Now I
don't know who's responding to me or not...mostly not, as witnessed by
my questions on border crossing records, which no one has responded to
but everyone else's are getting answered. :( Marge:)
On Feb 27, 2006, at 8:35 AM, arturoramos2 wrote:

>
> Emilie:
>
> Thanks for the feedback on the new site.  I will see if I can make
> some changes to the current layout of the site.  Others have also
> pointed out to some deficiencies in the style and layout.  If I cannot
> sufficiently address these issues, we may have to go with a more
> simple, perhaps less aesthetic, but more practical layout.  It is in
> fact quite easy to switch between different templates for the site.
>
> Perhaps I will put up one of these basic (and most likely easier to
> read) templates up for a day or two and see what people think.
>
> As far as the forum topics, we are kind of between a rock and a hard
> place.  On YahooGroups, there is only a single mailing list so people
> interested in the cultural historical aspects are forced to receive
> all of the messages related to specific research questions such as how
> to look up a border crossing record (and vice versa)... What we wanted
> to do was let people select the topics in which they had the most
> interest and wanted to get in their mailboxes and which ones they
> could attend to on the website or in digest emails.
>
> We decided that the three divisions would be sufficient to cover most
> of what is currently posted on YahooGroups.  I know that website
> questions does not really fit into any of them, but hopefully we will
> not be sending out website related emails for much longer.  If you
> have suggestions for another forum/mailing list, let us know.  It is
> in fact rather easy to set up.

Bibliography for 16th Century New Galicia

Published by arturoramos –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I have uploaded, in the books and articles files section of the new site, the bibliography of "Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo XVI" being published by the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas. The series is authored by José Enciso Contreras and Thomas Hillerkuss.

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Tue, 2006-03-14 06:15 | Permalink

Comment

I have uploaded, in the books and articles files section of the new site, the bibliography of "Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo XVI" being published by the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas. The series is authored by José Enciso Contreras and Thomas Hillerkuss.

The attached file is the bibliography of published works that they have used as sources to compile their diccionary. It is a rather exhaustive list of authoritative published works on the early history of Nueva Galicia and the people who lived in the region in the 16th Century.

The first two volumes (with names beginning in A-C and D-G) have already been published and the third volume is shortly forthcoming.

Comment

Wow Arturo thanks, There appears to be a wealth of bibliographical
references in this document. Enough to keep someone busy for awhile.

are the first two volumes at the Library of Congress?

joseph

arturoramos wrote:

>I have uploaded, in the books and articles files section of the new site, the bibliography of "Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo XVI" being published by the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas. The series is authored by José Enciso Contreras and Thomas Hillerkuss.
>
>The attached file is the bibliography of published works that they have used as sources to compile their diccionary. It is a rather exhaustive list of authoritative published works on the early history of Nueva Galicia and the people who lived in the region in the 16th Century.
>
>The first two volumes (with names beginning in A-C and D-G) have already been published and the third volume is shortly forthcoming.
>
>

Comment

Joseph et al:

Yes, the first two documents are at the Library of Congress. I have had a chance to look at them and have been able to build some pretty complex genealogies from the information in those volumes for a groups of families (Escobedos and Covarrubias) going back to the 1400s. They actually have a great deal of indigenous names in them as well...

=====================
From: Joseph Puentes
Date: Tue Mar 14 14:14:39 CST 2006
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bibliography for 16th Century New Galicia

Wow Arturo thanks, There appears to be a wealth of bibliographical
references in this document. Enough to keep someone busy for awhile.

are the first two volumes at the Library of Congress?

joseph

Bibliography for 16th Century New Galicia

Published by arturoramos –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have uploaded, in the books and articles files section of the new site, the bibliography of "Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo XVI" being published by the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas. The series is authored by José Enciso Contreras and Thomas Hillerkuss.

hmmmm. . .Cortes and Moctezuma

Published by lunalatina1955 –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Comments

Published by MariaCortez – Sat, 2006-03-11 11:00 | Permalink

Comment

Thanks for pointing this out. I did find an entry for the marriage
of Isabel Tolosa to Juan Onate on the IGI in 1569 Panuco, Zacatecas.
However, no film number is given and the source appears to be a
member of the LDS Church. This conflicts with the date of 1588 below.

Maria

Comment

I think I just settled the question in my mind about the credibility of the data.  I found this bit of info on Donald Chipman on the University of North Texas website: 

 "Donald Chipman, UNT Professor Emeritus of history and noted historian, was inducted into Spain's Orden de Isabel la Católica, an exclusive society created in 1815 by Ferdinand VII. The decoration ceremony is Spain's equivalent of a knighting ceremony. Chipman was honored for his research and books on the role of Spain in Texas history. Dallas' honorary consul of Spain decorated him with a heavy pendant of pure gold in June 2003. 

In 1992, Chipman won the Presidio La Bahía Award (First Prize) from the Sons of the Republic of Texas for his book, Spanish Texas, 1519-1821, and in 1994, he became a Lifetime Fellow of the Texas State Historical Association. These are just three of Chipman's professional honors.

Chipman taught at UNT from 1964 until his retirement in 1998."

Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, latina1955@... wrote:
>
> Maria:
>
> Here is another lineage documentation for Moctezuma's descendents:
> _http://hometown.aol.com/rdavidh218/azteckings.html_
> (http://hometown.aol.com/rdavidh218/azteckings.html)
>

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Maria,   This book by Donald Chipman is available through Amazon.com, there is one used book left. I checked my local library and it is only available as a reference book for viewing at the library only.   Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo San Jose, Ca

readysetgo95814 wrote:

I think I just settled the question in my mind about the credibility of the data.  I found this bit of info on Donald Chipman on the University of North Texas website:   "Donald Chipman, UNT Professor Emeritus of history and noted historian, was inducted into Spain's Orden de Isabel la Católica, an exclusive society created in 1815 by Ferdinand VII. The decoration ceremony is Spain's equivalent of a knighting ceremony. Chipman was honored for his
research and books on the role of Spain in Texas history. Dallas' honorary consul of Spain decorated him with a heavy pendant of pure gold in June 2003.  In 1992, Chipman won the Presidio La Bahía Award (First Prize) from the Sons of the Republic of Texas for his book, Spanish Texas, 1519-1821, and in 1994, he became a Lifetime Fellow of the Texas State Historical Association. These are just three of Chipman's professional honors. Chipman taught at UNT from 1964 until his retirement in 1998." Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, latina1955@... wrote:
>
> Maria:
>
> Here is another lineage documentation for Moctezuma's descendents:
> _http://hometown.aol.com/rdavidh218/azteckings.html_
> (http://hometown.aol.com/rdavidh218/azteckings.html)
>


Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Maria,
    I do have the book by Chipman, and the Inclan
data.  I just have to sit down and compare... 
Irma

From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
readysetgo95814
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 7:35
AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Re: hmmmm.
. .Cortes and Moctezuma


I came across this message on the Ancestry message forum: 

http://genforum.genealogy.com/mexico/messages/8185.html

The
message lists the descendancy of Moctezuma and cites the source
as John
Inclan, who in turn lists Donald Chipman's book "Moctezuma's
Children, Aztec
Royalty Under Spanish Rule" as his source.  Does
anyone have this
book?  My ancestress Petrona Siordia m. Juan Padilla
in 1616 in
Aguascalientes, would be a descendant of one of those
lines and I would like
to know if the data is credible or why it
isn't.

Maria

--- In
ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
>

> Now I was just talking to Arturo yesterday about how tightly knit

we are
> and how since the inception of the group there had never
been a
flame
> war. I don't want this to errupt into the first one.
We have some
strong
> view points being expressed here and there is
nothing wrong with
that.
> I'm just running interference and asking
those of you that reply to
this
> thread to choose your words
carefully and lets remember how much we
love
> each other. . .es
verdad, que no?
>
>  From my brief time knowing John I don't
believe he would claim
> decendancy from just sharing a name. I myself
claim decendancy from
the
> Robledo family that was in New Mexico I
believe in 1598, but I
haven't
> actually done or confirmed the
research myself. I'm leaning on the
> integrity of a cousin/author in
California that is much better
versed in
> the genealogy of that
area. I'm sure that John has a stronger
reason to
> believe
decendancy from Moctezuma based on a genealogical
investigation
> and
not generalizations. Having said that I know for myself that I
have
>
the strong need to eventually confirm those records relating me to
the

> Robledo family so I can have complete confidence and without even

asking
> him I believe John shares these same thoughts. If there was
only
time
> for all we want to do.
>
> How about we look
into this matter over the next few months as time
> allows and examine
the reasons why certain ones claim decendancy
and
> others like
myself can't claim it to any tribe and much less to any
> individual.
Let's take a controversial subject and use it toward
the
>
advancement of our research and understanding of our heritage.
>
>
joseph
>
>
>
> Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
>
> John, you don't need lessons in anything.  I was being facetious

when
> > I said "I am sure we are all descended from -----", and I
did not
say
> > Cortes and his men married only Aztec
royalty.  Also no one
really
> > knows the real total of the
pre-columbian population, and by the
era
> > of our ancestors in
our target area most had mixed blood. We now
know
> > they married
anybody and created, what was it--32 different
racial
> >
classifications?    It's just that I am bemused when people from

our
> > target area claim ancestry from the grand-children or

> > great-grand-children of one of the many Moctezumas, who were

Aztecs
> > and not Zacatecan, Guachachile, Cazcane, Chichimeca,
Huichoil,
etc.
> > and who lived far from there and were killed so
long before the
> > settlement of that area.  Just which
Moctezumas and Corteses
ended up
> > there? 
>
> 
> > I don't have to tell you how surnames evolved in
Mexico;
sometimes we
> > can't find someone because they used
their maternal surname or an
> > adopted one for whatever
reason.  My husband laughs at those so
ready
> > to claim
ancestry from the great Moctezuma or Cortes because in
many
> >
cases the Spaniards would just hang any name on someone as a joke
> >
rather than let them keep their own native names, or people would
name

> > themselves after someone of "import".  So many people are to

ready
> > to think they are descended from an Indian Princess or

Conquistador. 
> > I just cringe.  My husband has the
names in his family tree of
people
> > who were prominent in
Spain.  Does he care if he is really
descended
> > from the
great Cervantes or the Duke of Alba? No. My husband
says, "el
> >
que no tiene nombre, Garcia se le pone".  That goes for any name
>
> in Spain or Mexico.
> > 
> > I know Moctezuma was
not the father of all Mexico, so why should
> > someone boast about a
name in their ancestry that has taken on
> > mythical proportions? He
was a cruel pagan who got his just
desserts
> > with the help of
other natives who suffered under him.  He and
Cortez
> > were
cruel and ruthless.  The great ones are the nameless ones
who
>
> persevered under such harsh conditions.  My surnames are just a

tool
> > to lead me to where I came from, the migrations, culture,
etc.  I
am
> > glad they had any surnames at all since so
many did not. As for
being
> > a descendant of an Indian Princess
or Conquistador, I am not so
ready
> > to believe it just because
of a name.
> > 
> > Emilie Garcia
> > Port
Orchard, WA ---
> >
> >     ----- Original
Message -----
> >     From: John Gonzalez

> >     To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:18 PM
>
>     Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SoCal
Meeting
> >
> >     I guess I need a
history lesson.  Emilie you say: " I am sure
we
>
>     ALL descend from Cortes and his men, their
wives,mistresses
and
> >     Aztec
royalty"  I believe at the time of the conquest the
>
>     population of Mexico was estimated at about 10
million.  I bet
> >     some of them never got
any Spanish blood.  Are you saying that
>
>     Cortes' men only married Aztec royalty?  I
don't think all of
the
> >     Aztecs descended
fron just one man, Moctezuma. Moctezuma was
not
>
>     the "Adam" of Mexico.
>
>     
> >    
1gnzlz@...
>
>
>




Read full comment ➜

Comment

Irma,
 
The direct descendants of Cortes and Moctezuma are listed in the IGI, down
to the most recent ones born around 1951. Because of their
proven bloodlines they were given royal titles, etc.   If
your recent ancestors aren't listed there, then you have to back-track and see
if you have the right Joses and Marias and make sure surnames were not adopted
or changed.  It might turn out that your lines will back-track to a related
or collateral line or an illegitimate line of the official direct
descendants, but you have to do the actual tedious back-tracking and not just
join what you have to what has been published elsewhere, which may or may not be
documented but only presumed when compared to other data that led them to
believe that there is most likely a valid connection.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

----- Original Message -----
From: Irma
GomezLucero
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:57
PM
Subject: RE: [ranchos] Re: hmmmm. .
.Cortes and Moctezuma


Hi Maria,
   
I do have the book by Chipman, and the
Inclan data.  I just have to sit down and compare... 

Irma

From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
readysetgo95814
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 7:35
AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[ranchos] Re: hmmmm. . .Cortes and Moctezuma


I came across this message on the Ancestry message forum: 

http://genforum.genealogy.com/mexico/messages/8185.html

The
message lists the descendancy of Moctezuma and cites the source
as John
Inclan, who in turn lists Donald Chipman's book "Moctezuma's
Children,
Aztec Royalty Under Spanish Rule" as his source.  Does
anyone have
this book?  My ancestress Petrona Siordia m. Juan Padilla
in 1616 in
Aguascalientes, would be a descendant of one of those
lines and I would
like to know if the data is credible or why it

isn't.

Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes
wrote:
>
>
> Now I was just talking to
Arturo yesterday about how tightly knit
we are
> and how since the
inception of the group there had never been a
flame
> war. I don't
want this to errupt into the first one. We have some
strong
> view
points being expressed here and there is nothing wrong with
that.
>
I'm just running interference and asking those of you that reply to
this

> thread to choose your words carefully and lets remember how much we

love
> each other. . .es verdad, que no?
>
> 
From my brief time knowing John I don't believe he would claim
>
decendancy from just sharing a name. I myself claim decendancy from
the

> Robledo family that was in New Mexico I believe in 1598, but I

haven't
> actually done or confirmed the research myself. I'm
leaning on the
> integrity of a cousin/author in California that is
much better
versed in
> the genealogy of that area. I'm sure that
John has a stronger
reason to
> believe decendancy from Moctezuma
based on a genealogical
investigation
> and not generalizations.
Having said that I know for myself that I
have
> the strong need to
eventually confirm those records relating me to
the
> Robledo
family so I can have complete confidence and without even
asking
>
him I believe John shares these same thoughts. If there was only
time

> for all we want to do.
>
> How about we look into this
matter over the next few months as time
> allows and examine the
reasons why certain ones claim decendancy
and
> others like myself
can't claim it to any tribe and much less to any
> individual. Let's
take a controversial subject and use it toward
the
> advancement of
our research and understanding of our heritage.
>
>
joseph
>
>
>
> Emilie Garcia wrote:
>

> > John, you don't need lessons in anything.  I was being
facetious
when
> > I said "I am sure we are all descended from
-----", and I did not
say
> > Cortes and his men married only
Aztec royalty.  Also no one
really
> > knows the real total
of the pre-columbian population, and by the
era
> > of our
ancestors in our target area most had mixed blood. We now
know
>
> they married anybody and created, what was it--32 different
racial

> > classifications?    It's just that I am bemused
when people from
our
> > target area claim ancestry from the
grand-children or
> > great-grand-children of one of the many
Moctezumas, who were
Aztecs
> > and not Zacatecan, Guachachile,
Cazcane, Chichimeca, Huichoil,
etc.
> > and who lived far from
there and were killed so long before the
> > settlement of that
area.  Just which Moctezumas and Corteses
ended up
> >
there? 
> > 
> > I don't have to tell you how
surnames evolved in Mexico;
sometimes we
> > can't find someone
because they used their maternal surname or an
> > adopted one for
whatever reason.  My husband laughs at those so
ready
> >
to claim ancestry from the great Moctezuma or Cortes because in
many

> > cases the Spaniards would just hang any name on someone as a
joke
> > rather than let them keep their own native names, or people
would
name
> > themselves after someone of "import".  So
many people are to
ready
> > to think they are descended from an
Indian Princess or
Conquistador. 
> > I just cringe. 
My husband has the names in his family tree of
people
> > who
were prominent in Spain.  Does he care if he is really
descended

> > from the great Cervantes or the Duke of Alba? No. My husband

says, "el
> > que no tiene nombre, Garcia se le pone". 
That goes for any name
> > in Spain or Mexico.
> > 

> > I know Moctezuma was not the father of all Mexico, so why should

> > someone boast about a name in their ancestry that has taken on

> > mythical proportions? He was a cruel pagan who got his just

desserts
> > with the help of other natives who suffered under
him.  He and
Cortez
> > were cruel and ruthless.  The
great ones are the nameless ones
who
> > persevered under such
harsh conditions.  My surnames are just a
tool
> > to lead
me to where I came from, the migrations, culture, etc.  I
am
>
> glad they had any surnames at all since so many did not. As for
being

> > a descendant of an Indian Princess or Conquistador, I am not so

ready
> > to believe it just because of a name.
>
> 
> > Emilie Garcia
> > Port Orchard, WA
---
> >
> >     ----- Original Message
-----
> >     From: John Gonzalez

> >     To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:18 PM
>
>     Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]
SoCal Meeting
> >
> >     I guess I need
a history lesson.  Emilie you say: " I am sure
we
>
>     ALL descend from Cortes and his men, their
wives,mistresses
and
> >     Aztec
royalty"  I believe at the time of the conquest the
>
>     population of Mexico was estimated at about 10
million.  I bet
> >     some of them never
got any Spanish blood.  Are you saying that
>
>     Cortes' men only married Aztec royalty?  I
don't think all of
the
> >     Aztecs
descended fron just one man, Moctezuma. Moctezuma was
not
>
>     the "Adam" of Mexico.
>
>     
> >    
1gnzlz@...
>
>
>




Read full comment ➜

Comment

Emilie,

The entries in the IGI are not always correct. If you read a prior
message I quoted on one of those descendants; you'll see that the IGI
data was submitted by a member of the LDS church, and doesn't include
a film number.

I've seen Irma's work for myself and can tell you that she has put
her time in at her local FHC doing the tedious back-tracking to put
together her family tree. She is also not one to jump to conclusions
and any claims she makes can be supported with hard facts and
documental evidence.

Joseph restricts membership to this group to only serious
genealogists and that is why I turn to this group when I have
questions.

Maria

Wildcards and the IGI

Published by Visitor (not verified) –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Dear friends and cousins,

I just uploaded a little file that lists all the valid queries you can make when searching the Birth/Christening records in the IGI.

To see the file you have to log-in first and then select "Files" from the top menu. Next click "Reference Materials" and then select the folder "Searching the IGI". To open the file click on "Using Wildcards"

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Sun, 2006-03-12 19:12 | Permalink

Comment

Victor, Victor!

That table you developed works great for me! Remember that Jose Ysac Cerbantes born in Encarnacion de Diaz that I found only after going through thousands of Cervanteses in the IGI (and just for Jalisco too)? Well, by using your table, I not only found him by completing four fields (his first name, last name, and his mother's first and last name), and it brought up not only him, but another brother that was born to his mother in Lagos de Moreno. I can hardly wait to try it out on other brick walls I have.

Victor, the Family History Center should pay you for this table. What a breakthrough! At first I couldn't get my pea-brain to follow the table, so I highlighted all the blocks that had the "1"s for all the "YES" results, and I can just put my finger on the appropriate line and I know exactly which fields to complete. I didn't even have to use the wild card, but I will when I don't have enough information or when I suspect a surname has been butchered in the transcribing.

Bless you, bless you. Can you feel my abrazo across the miles?

Emilie

Published by wixaritori (not verified) – Sat, 2006-03-11 21:00 | Permalink

Comment

Dear friends and cousins,

I just uploaded a little file that lists all the valid queries you can make when searching the Birth/Christening records in the IGI.

To see the file you have to log-in first and then select "Files" from the top menu. Next click "Reference Materials" and then select the folder "Searching the IGI". To open the file click on "Using Wildcards"

I created a Truth Table for all the possible combinations of the first six fields in the IGI Search Form, which are used when searching Birth/Christening records. If somebody has the time and is willing I could prepare another Table for the all the possible combinations when searching Marriage records and then try each combination and fill the Results and Error columns.

Un Saludo Cordial

Victor

Comment

Victor,



thank you so much for doing this. I hope that sometime soon I'll have a
break in the action to try some new searches using wildcards. thanks
again,



joseph







wixaritori wrote:

Dear friends and cousins,

I just uploaded a little file that lists all the valid queries you can make when searching the Birth/Christening records in the IGI.

To see the file you have to log-in first and then select "Files" from the top menu.  Next click "Reference Materials" and then select the folder "Searching the IGI".  To open the file click on "Using Wildcards"

I created a Truth Table for all the possible combinations of the first six fields in the IGI Search Form, which are used when searching Birth/Christening records.  If somebody has the time and is willing I could prepare another Table for the all the possible combinations when searching Marriage records and then try each combination and fill the Results and Error columns.

Un Saludo Cordial

Victor
Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thank you, Victor. Marge:)
On Mar 11, 2006, at 9:49 PM, wixaritori wrote:

>
> Dear friends and cousins,
>
> I just uploaded a little file that lists all the valid queries you
> can make when searching the Birth/Christening records in the IGI.
>
> To see the file you have to log-in first and then select "Files" from
> the top menu.  Next click "Reference Materials" and then select the
> folder "Searching the IGI".  To open the file click on "Using
> Wildcards"
>
> I created a Truth Table for all the possible combinations of the
> first six fields in the IGI Search Form, which are used when searching
> Birth/Christening records.  If somebody has the time and is willing I
> could prepare another Table for the all the possible combinations when
> searching Marriage records and then try each combination and fill the
> Results and Error columns.
>
> Un Saludo Cordial
>
> Victor
>

Comment

I just updated the file about valid queries and the use of wildcards to search records in the IGI database. Now it includes the table of valid queries for Marriage searches also.

Victor

Comment

I just updated the file about valid queries and the use of wildcards to search records in the IGI database. Now it includes the table of valid queries for Marriage searches also.

Victor

Published by meef98367 – Sun, 2006-03-12 17:00 | Permalink

Comment

Thanks, Victor,

That will be a valuable resource to help us navigate the IGI.

Emilie

Comment

Victor, Victor!

That table you developed works great for me! Remember that Jose Ysac Cerbantes born in Encarnacion de Diaz that I found only after going through thousands of Cervanteses in the IGI (and just for Jalisco too)? Well, by using your table, I not only found him by completing four fields (his first name, last name, and his mother's first and last name), and it brought up not only him, but another brother that was born to his mother in Lagos de Moreno. I can hardly wait to try it out on other brick walls I have.

Victor, the Family History Center should pay you for this table. What a breakthrough! At first I couldn't get my pea-brain to follow the table, so I highlighted all the blocks that had the "1"s for all the "YES" results, and I can just put my finger on the appropriate line and I know exactly which fields to complete. I didn't even have to use the wild card, but I will when I don't have enough information or when I suspect a surname has been butchered in the transcribing.

Bless you, bless you. Can you feel my abrazo across the miles?

Emilie

Comment

Emilie,

I'm glad the instructions helped you. I'm thinking that by this time with all the extensive searches you have made over the last years on the IGI there won't be much left that you haven't seen but we cannot leave any stone unturned, right?

As you know, the best way to search the IGI is using the batch numbers but sometimes we need to start without them. Once you find some member of the family you're looking for it is better to use the batch numbers that you find to narrow down your recordset. The wildcards can still be used as before in the other fields even when you input some batch numbers.

Another small tip for those following this thread is a way to extract those records where there is a null value or in other words where a field was left blank. For example, a child that is given a name but not a lastname, or a child who is presented to be baptized by a single mother.

In the first case you enter the First Name of the child as usual but in the Last Name field instead of leaving it blank or using a wildcard you enter the following three characters /*/. (Slash, Asterisk and Slash.)

To get the records of children with no father (in the baptismal record) you can enter the First Name as usual (or a wildcard), the Last Name as usual (or a wildcard) and in the Father's Name you enter /*/ and also in the Father's Last Name if you want, or you can try some permutations here to see what results you get.

With this trick you'll get a bunch of records that usually don't show with the standard queries, including some where the data was improperly captured, as those where the First and Last names are input to a single field.

Unfortunately, the truth is that there are still a lot of sacramental records that haven't been captured to the IGI database from the microfilms. That means we eventually need to leave our keyboards behind and crank the film projectors.

Saludos a Todos,

Victor

meef98367 escribió:
Victor, Victor!

That table you developed works great for me! Remember that Jose Ysac Cerbantes born in Encarnacion de Diaz that I found only after going through thousands of Cervanteses in the IGI (and just for Jalisco too)? Well, by using your table, I not only found him by completing four fields (his first name, last name, and his mother's first and last name), and it brought up not only him, but another brother that was born to his mother in Lagos de Moreno. I can hardly wait to try it out on other brick walls I have.

<<<<>>>>>

---------------------------------
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Relaciones Geográficas of Mexico and Guatemala: An Inventory of Holdings at the Benson Latin American Collection

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utlac/00056/lac-00056.html

Joseph, did you see this in the ArchiveGrid? I searched for our area, Tepetongo, and it is listed as far back as 1577. Wonder what it says? I wish I could go to that university in Texas and see.

Comments

Royal Lineages

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Joseph,

That article you sent on the Aztec Emperors was part of several indexed in an AOL homepage that lists just about all the royal lineages that ever existed anywhere in the world---Roman, Egyptian, Arthurian, etc., etc. and their descendants. Very interesting. Maybe somebody can trace themselves back to Julius Caesar, the pharoahs, etc.

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Sun, 2006-03-12 19:00 | Permalink

Comment

Joseph,

That article you sent on the Aztec Emperors was part of several indexed in an AOL homepage that lists just about all the royal lineages that ever existed anywhere in the world---Roman, Egyptian, Arthurian, etc., etc. and their descendants. Very interesting. Maybe somebody can trace themselves back to Julius Caesar, the pharoahs, etc.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----

MOVING THE PHOTOS FILE

Published by yolandamedinaperez –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

WITH ALL YOU HAVE BEEN DOING HERE I GO AGAIN ADDING TO THE PILE. I HAD
ASKED ALBERTO TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE BUGARIN PHOTOS BUT I
DISCOVERED THE PICS ARE NOT ON THE NEW SITE. ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE

Comments

Published by makas_nc – Sun, 2006-03-12 03:45 | Permalink

Comment

Okay. . .see how easy that was. You thought it and now it is so. Look
in the "albums" for your new picture folder



please folks I'm here for you all. If you need help I want to help. I
want us to be moved over so we can get back to normal.



so if any others need help just follow the great example of Yolanda.
Thanks Yolanda.



Everybody else that needs help email me privately at makas@nc.rr.com in
time I'll get to you,



joseph







Yolanda Medina-Perez wrote:

WITH ALL YOU HAVE BEEN DOING HERE I GO AGAIN ADDING TO THE PILE. I HAD 
ASKED ALBERTO TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE BUGARIN PHOTOS BUT I 
DISCOVERED THE PICS ARE NOT ON THE NEW SITE.  ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE 
TO MOVE THE FOLDERS TO THE NEW SITE??  I SURE HOPE SO!
YOLANDA MEDINA PEREZ






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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Read full comment ➜

Comment

JOSEPH,  GRACIAS!!! THE FOLDER     IS THERE AND I THINK I JUST MIGHT ADD SOME MORE PICTURES OF THE BUGARIN FAMILY. YOLANDA

Joseph Puentes wrote:

Okay. . .see how easy that was. You thought it and now it is so. Look in
the "albums" for your new picture folder

please folks I'm here for you all. If you need help I want to help. I
want us to be moved over so we can get back to normal.

so if any others need help just follow the great example of Yolanda.
Thanks Yolanda.

Everybody else that needs help email me privately at makas@nc.rr.com in
time I'll get to you,

joseph



Yolanda Medina-Perez wrote:

>WITH ALL YOU HAVE BEEN DOING HERE I GO AGAIN ADDING TO THE PILE. I HAD

>ASKED ALBERTO TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE BUGARIN PHOTOS BUT I
>DISCOVERED THE PICS ARE NOT ON THE NEW SITE. ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE
>TO MOVE THE FOLDERS TO THE NEW SITE?? I SURE HOPE SO!
>YOLANDA MEDINA PEREZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--


Read full comment ➜

Published by lunalatina1955 – Sat, 2006-03-11 22:30 | Permalink

Comment

I have been trying to find records for my grandparents....I have been able
to find records for my father's maternal great grandparent.  When I typed
in my great grandmother's name, hoping to get marriage information, the
baptismal record shows up.  But when I attempted to see about marriage
(actually I am trying to find more information on my paternal grandfather's
side), I am unable to do so. But I did get this:  does it mean there are no
additional records in between that time frame not listed?
 

Title Registros parroquiales, 1853-1902
Authors Iglesia Católica (Los Rosales, Coahuila) (Main
Author)
Notes Microfilm de manuscritos en el archivo de la parroquia de Rosales.
Contenido: Bautismos 1853-1867,1877-1902 Matrimonios 1877-1895
Parish registers of baptisms, marriages and
deaths.
Subjects México, Coahuila, Los Rosales - Church
records
Read full comment ➜

Comment

what I do most of the time is I type a name that is common every where, I type jose hernandez, it give me a list of them in the state, I chose one that has a register very close to the date and in the town I am interested in; I do click and it appears the register, than I click in the batch number and it will bring a list in alfabethical order of names in that batch, I then go through and ... maybe there is the register I am looking for... next step if I want more info I go to the FHC and place the order for the film         hope this helps                               Leticia Leon

latina1955@aol.com escribió:

I have been trying to find records for my grandparents....I have been able to find records for my father's maternal great grandparent.  When I typed in my great grandmother's name, hoping to get marriage information, the baptismal record shows up.  But when I attempted to see about marriage (actually I am trying to find more information on my paternal grandfather's side), I am unable to do so. But I did get this:  does it mean there are no additional records in between that time frame not listed?  
Title Registros parroquiales, 1853-1902
Authors Iglesia Católica (Los Rosales, Coahuila) (Main Author)
Notes Microfilm de manuscritos en
el archivo de la parroquia de Rosales.
Contenido: Bautismos 1853-1867,1877-1902 Matrimonios 1877-1895
Parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths.
Subjects México, Coahuila, Los Rosales - Church
records



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS







Do You Yahoo!?
La mejor conexión a Internet y 2GB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Read full comment ➜

Comment

Latina (sorry I forgot your real name),
 
Unfortunately there is a gap in records.  I find this in many of the
records.  I guess the books were lost, or pages fell out, or they met with
floods and fire.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

----- Original Message -----
From: latina1955@aol.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:22
PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] MOVING THE PHOTOS
FILE


I have been trying to find records for my grandparents....I have been
able to find records for my father's maternal great grandparent.  When I
typed in my great grandmother's name, hoping to get marriage information, the
baptismal record shows up.  But when I attempted to see about marriage
(actually I am trying to find more information on my paternal grandfather's
side), I am unable to do so. But I did get this:  does it mean there are
no additional records in between that time frame not listed?
 

Title Registros parroquiales, 1853-1902
Authors Iglesia Católica (Los Rosales, Coahuila) (Main
Author)
Notes Microfilm de manuscritos en el archivo de la parroquia de
Rosales.
Contenido: Bautismos 1853-1867,1877-1902 Matrimonios 1877-1895
Parish registers of baptisms, marriages and
deaths.
Subjects México, Coahuila, Los Rosales - Church
records
Read full comment ➜

Comment

Emilie, You are correct in saying that there are record gaps. In my area of research, Nochistlan Zac I have gone through all the batch numbers and film numbers available and have documented the following missing years. I am posting this in case anyone else is researching Nochistlan.   1869, 1859-1860, 1836, 1805, 1763-1769, 1731-1744. The first year of films for Nochistlan begins with the year 1627.   Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo San Jose, Ca

Emilie Garcia wrote:

Latina (sorry I forgot your real
name),   Unfortunately there is a gap in records.  I find this in many of the records.  I guess the books were lost, or pages fell out, or they met with floods and fire.   Emilie Garcia Port Orchard, WA --
----- Original Message ----- From: latina1955@aol.com To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [ranchos] MOVING THE PHOTOS FILE
I have been trying to find records for my grandparents....I have been able to find records for my father's maternal great grandparent.  When I typed in my great grandmother's name, hoping to get marriage information, the baptismal record shows up.  But when I attempted to see about marriage (actually I am trying to find more information on my paternal grandfather's side), I am unable to do so. But I did get this:  does it mean there are no additional records in between that time frame not listed?  
Title Registros parroquiales, 1853-1902
Authors Iglesia Católica (Los Rosales, Coahuila) (Main Author)
Notes Microfilm de manuscritos en el archivo de la parroquia de Rosales.
Contenido: Bautismos 1853-1867,1877-1902 Matrimonios 1877-1895
Parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths.
Subjects México, Coahuila, Los Rosales - Church records


Read full comment ➜

Comment

Also, Alicia,
 
When the film notes lead you to believe that the film will contain every
record within a time span listed, when you actually start looking through the
film you will find that things are terribly out of date sequence, or you even
find something from another parish or another century in it, or the gaps weren't
listed in the film notes.
 
Emilie

----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia
Carrillo
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:03
PM
Subject: [ranchos] IGI Record Gaps


Emilie,
You are correct in saying that there are record gaps. In my area of
research, Nochistlan Zac I have gone through all the batch numbers and film
numbers available and have documented the following missing years. I am
posting this in case anyone else is researching Nochistlan.
 
1869, 1859-1860, 1836, 1805, 1763-1769, 1731-1744. The first year of
films for Nochistlan begins with the year 1627.
 
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

Emilie Garcia
wrote:

Latina (sorry I forgot your real name),
 
Unfortunately there is a gap in records.  I find this in many of
the records.  I guess the books were lost, or pages fell out, or they
met with floods and fire.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

----- Original Message -----
From: latina1955@aol.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:22
PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] MOVING THE
PHOTOS FILE


I have been trying to find records for my grandparents....I have been
able to find records for my father's maternal great grandparent. 
When I typed in my great grandmother's name, hoping to get marriage
information, the baptismal record shows up.  But when I attempted to
see about marriage (actually I am trying to find more information on my
paternal grandfather's side), I am unable to do so. But I did get
this:  does it mean there are no additional records in between that
time frame not listed?
 

Title Registros parroquiales, 1853-1902
Authors Iglesia Católica (Los Rosales, Coahuila)
(Main Author)
Notes Microfilm de manuscritos en el archivo de la parroquia de
Rosales.
Contenido: Bautismos 1853-1867,1877-1902 Matrimonios 1877-1895
Parish registers of baptisms, marriages and
deaths.
Subjects México, Coahuila, Los Rosales - Church
records


Read full comment ➜

[Fwd: Emailing: azteckings]

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion



Here's something Charles is passing on to the group. As should be our
norm we should take any leads we get from sources like this as just
that: Leads. Leads should produce a strong desire in us to confirm the
work by seeking the source material it was taken from and "seeing" it
ourselves.



. . .yeah yeah yeah I know I'm just preaching to the choir.



thanks Carlitos,



joseph







-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Emailing: azteckings
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:21:29 -0800
From: Charles Clark
To: Joseph Puentes
CC: Rosalinda M Ruiz




.htmbrp {
FONT-SIZE: 11px; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
.htmbrp:link {
COLOR: #0000ff; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
.htmbrp

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The IGI & Padre No Conocido

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I don't know if this is appropriate to address to those planning to go to Salt Lake City in October, but I have a question about the way the IGI works as far as finding the children of women where in the record it says hijo natural or padre no conocido. Maybe someone at the main FHC or Mr. Ryskamp can answer the question.

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Fri, 2006-03-10 20:15 | Permalink

Comment

I don't know if this is appropriate to address to those planning to go to Salt Lake City in October, but I have a question about the way the IGI works as far as finding the children of women where in the record it says hijo natural or padre no conocido. Maybe someone at the main FHC or Mr. Ryskamp can answer the question.

I recently had help from Arturo on finding the birth record of an ancestor of my husband's and the birth records of the ancestor's parents. I asked him how he found the record so quickly, and he said he had just lucked out on the IGI query. (I never found it after years of looking). So, I thought well, maybe I will luck out today and find this ancestor's son. I got nowhere again on the IGI like had happened for years on this person. So I went back to my old way of going through thousands of people with that surname, and lo and behold, I did luck out. I found him listed with only one surname.

I found that the son had been born three years before the marriage of the people the son had listed as his parents in the baptism records of his children. His baptism record on the IGI only showed the name of his mother, no father listed. The IGI does not allow a search of parents unless you enter both parents' names, or at least the father's whole name and the first name of the mother. I wish that the IGI would allow a search with only the mother's name, since occasionally a woman will have a child out of wedlock and the father is listed as unknown. My question is: Is there any chance that the IGI will ever allow a query using just the mother's name?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Comment

Emilie and all:

There is a way to search in the IGI for mother's name only by using wildcards. You must enter the father's full name in order to do a parent search (leaving the child's name empty). But you can do a regular person search entering wildcards for the child's name (% - percentage sign) or doing a parent search entering wild cards for the father's name.

Probably because of the way the database is indexed (and thus the restrictions on the searches)... doing wildcards is not very efficient and often times out the server and gives you an error. However, if you know a batch number it works like a charm. Also if you have a small date range (4 or 10 years) within one state it also tends to work...

Try it out. That is how I have found many an individual whose name was misspelled or who was missing a father, etc.

=====================
From: meef98367
Date: Fri Mar 10 21:11:57 CST 2006
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The IGI & Padre No Conocido

I don't know if this is appropriate to address to those planning to go to Salt Lake City in October, but I have a question about the way the IGI works as far as finding the children of women where in the record it says hijo natural or padre no conocido. Maybe someone at the main FHC or Mr. Ryskamp can answer the question.

I recently had help from Arturo on finding the birth record of an ancestor of my husband's and the birth records of the ancestor's parents. I asked him how he found the record so quickly, and he said he had just lucked out on the IGI query. (I never found it after years of looking). So, I thought well, maybe I will luck out today and find this ancestor's son. I got nowhere again on the IGI like had happened for years on this person. So I went back to my old way of going through thousands of people with that surname, and lo and behold, I did luck out. I found him listed with only one surname.

I found that the son had been born three years before the marriage of the people the son had listed as his parents in the baptism records of his children. His baptism record on the IGI only showed the name of his mother, no father listed. The IGI does not allow a search of parents unless you enter both parents' names, or at least the father's whole name and the first name of the mother. I wish that the IGI would allow a search with only the mother's name, since occasionally a woman will have a child out of wedlock and the father is listed as unknown. My question is: Is there any chance that the IGI will ever allow a query using just the mother's name?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Comment

Emilie,

I thought you had read my previous email exchange with Angie on the topic of the wildcard and the IGI. Have you tried the percentage sign (%) ?

Just remember that if you only have the mother's name/lastname you have to enter a wildcard in the father's name and in the lastname textboxes.

Hopefully you'll get lucky again!

Victor

meef98367 escribió:
I don't know if this is appropriate to address to those planning to go to Salt Lake City in October, but I have a question about the way the IGI works as far as finding the children of women where in the record it says hijo natural or padre no conocido. Maybe someone at the main FHC or Mr. Ryskamp can answer the question.

I recently had help from Arturo on finding the birth record of an ancestor of my husband's and the birth records of the ancestor's parents. I asked him how he found the record so quickly, and he said he had just lucked out on the IGI query. (I never found it after years of looking). So, I thought well, maybe I will luck out today and find this ancestor's son. I got nowhere again on the IGI like had happened for years on this person. So I went back to my old way of going through thousands of people with that surname, and lo and behold, I did luck out. I found him listed with only one surname.

I found that the son had been born three years before the marriage of the people the son had listed as his parents in the baptism records of his children. His baptism record on the IGI only showed the name of his mother, no father listed. The IGI does not allow a search of parents unless you enter both parents' names, or at least the father's whole name and the first name of the mother. I wish that the IGI would allow a search with only the mother's name, since occasionally a woman will have a child out of wedlock and the father is listed as unknown. My question is: Is there any chance that the IGI will ever allow a query using just the mother's name?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Comment

Yes, Victor,

I remember once, not recently, you telling someone about using % as a wildcard, but it never worked for me. I usually just have to spend hours going through thousands of IGI records, and sometimes I am lucky, sometimes not. I guess the gene gods just have to be there.

Emilie

Comment

Emilie,

Give me the info you have (names, dates and places) and let me try to do a search from my pc. If I get the IGI database going I'll let you know what parameters to use.

As Arturo explained, sometimes the queries with wildcards don't produce any output so you have to tweak the filters a little bit.

Victor

Emilie Garcia escribió: Victor, that has never worked for me. How do you enter the % sign---with just the percent symbol or with the symbol in parentheses- or brackets?

Emilie

---------------------------------
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